Anonymous wrote:Looking back as a responsible non-twenty something adult - and considering the dynamics of a marriage and that many children, I ask myself was Kate really the problem?


I don’t think I stand firmly in the camp of Kate was an awful person. She was stressed, life was happening real time, and her personality isn’t the sweetest Michelle Duggar type flow and vibe but she was take charge. She kept sh$@ under control.

Michelle Duggar is the opposite of sweet.

There are a lot of bad parents. I would include Kate and the people on this thread supporting her as part of that group. Bad parents don’t think the actions of other bad parents are bad, they treat their kids the same way and justify it. I was stressed so I had to physically / emotionally abusive the child to keep them in line. That’s why some are fine with how she treated Jon and the kids and are defending her. Abusive people always justify their actions.

Pp again- I should add that since becoming a mother, I actually find her even more awful. I cannot imagine treating any of my kids that way. And no, spanking was not acceptable in most households in the 2000s

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Anonymous wrote:Sharing her life and kids so publicly is abusive in itself. Narcissistic. Maybe if she hadn’t done that, and kept herself to herself…

And how would she have paid for her kids? Jon never had a real job. I think she got caught up in the money and probably felt like that was her best option to stay home with her kids. Can you imagine trying to be a nurse and take care of 8 young kids?

Jon had a job. He worked in IT. They met at a company picnic.

Jon did not have a job that would provide for a family of ten. He was a giant man child. He went on to be a DJ and acted like a teenager.

I don't completely disagree, but he was only a couple years out of high school when he met Kate, then they dated and got married. So, yes, for a short time after they split he did seem to live the single 20s life he never had. Since then he seems to have settled down.

So she stepped up. I mean why does he get a pass? She’s just slightly older than he was.

I seem to recall her also getting her share of tabloids as she was dating her security guard? But also, she continued filming, so she had to keep a veneer up. And if I remember correctly, it was pretty obvious the kids didn’t want to be on camera, so she’s not exactly a saint. Deciding to have 8 kids when you are a nurse and your husband is in IT is insane, particularly when 6 are simultaneous. It’s not an excuse to go reality or be a bad mother.

Anonymous wrote:Sharing her life and kids so publicly is abusive in itself. Narcissistic. Maybe if she hadn’t done that, and kept herself to herself…

Exactly. A one or two episode documentary, sure. She used the children for her fame and fortune.

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Anonymous wrote:Op here. This is interesting to me, to see many responses on the spooning? I don’t think I could name one friend or relative who was not spanked or had a parent use something like a sandal or spoon. We even had other people’s grandparents disciplining us as kids.

But spanking has been passe for awhile now. It was part of past generations but her kids were born in 2004. It is very uncommon in this generation to hit your kids.

+100

I grew up being spanked (including with a wooden spoon). I don’t view myself as having been abused but parenting practices grow and evolve. She’s def an outlier.

[quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous][quote=Anonymous]Op here. This is interesting to me, to see many responses on the spooning? I don’t think I could name one friend or relative who was not spanked or had a parent use something like a sandal or spoon. We even had other people’s grandparents disciplining us as kids. [/quote]

How old are you? My oldest is in his 40s and none of the other parents I knew were spanking their kids at that time. And using an object to hit your kids with was definitely thought of as outrageous.
[/quote]

(DP). Im 44. I was spanked, my brothers got the belt when they were really bad.

I don’t spank my kids but I know two other moms who used a wooden spoon / spatula on their kids, 5-10 years ago. They freely talked about it, the one mom who used the spatula called it a “spatchie pop” lol. This was in the country, I think it’s still prevalent in rural areas.

Kate’s behavior didn’t seem that bad to me. I was raised by less than stellar parents though…[/quote]

Another DP, 43 - our mom hit us with a wooden spoon (which is actually to this day a running joke because it never hurt) and our dad beat the crap out of us with belts, sometimes the buckle end. I knew when it was happening that our belt "spankings" were more abusive than what happened to other kids but there was plenty of cover for them because spankings were incredibly mainstream in general - if we said we got a whooping the reaction was "yeah because your parents care about you" not "OMG as a mandatory reporter I am outraged!"[/quote]

My oldest is a couple of years younger than you, so I was a parent to young children at the same time your parents were. Spanking was not considered mainstream during that time. I’m sorry you experienced what you did- that was not at all the norm at that time. I never spanked my children and none of the parents I knew did either. Yes, some may have given a quick swat on a diapered bottom every so often, but they felt really, really bad about that swat and talked about how guilty they felt about it with their mom friends.

Your parents sound like a throwback to the time when I was I child in the 60s and spanking was definitely more mainstream. By the 80s, it was looked down on by the general public. [/quote]

I'm here to tell you that we told people when we got whoopings (understood in the parlance to be "worse than a spanking" but not necessarily abusive) and the reaction ranged from "good for your parents" (from adults at school/church) to "I bet I get it worse/ did you have to pick your own switch?" from kids. It was very much considered normal although there were likely some families that did not use any physical punishment. I remember when they took corporal punishment out of schools and it was controversial. A signficant contingent of parents were very much against it - when I was in elementary school you could still sign a paper saying you gave the principal permission to spank your kid. This was in a wealthy suburb[b] in Texas [/b]in the late 80s/early 90s, not a holler in Appalachia in the 60s.[/quote]

Enough said. [/quote]

My husband is from Maryland and got spanked, same time frame. It was so normal that he expected we would spank our kids (under 10 now), and was surprised by my refusal. It's not the case that spanking were verboten in the 80s, although it's great that you didn't spank your kids. [/quote]


Op here. 40. Raised in DC. Spankings with belt and switch. Friend circle from PG County I referenced AA, Haitian/Dominican, Italian and Filipino and each has had an experience spanked by hand, spoon, sandal or belt. We’ve talked about this for years and related to each others experiences laughing about it years later.

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sharing her life and kids so publicly is abusive in itself. Narcissistic. Maybe if she hadn’t done that, and kept herself to herself…

And how would she have paid for her kids? Jon never had a real job. I think she got caught up in the money and probably felt like that was her best option to stay home with her kids. Can you imagine trying to be a nurse and take care of 8 young kids?

Jon had a job. He worked in IT. They met at a company picnic.

Jon did not have a job that would provide for a family of ten. He was a giant man child. He went on to be a DJ and acted like a teenager.

I don't completely disagree, but he was only a couple years out of high school when he met Kate, then they dated and got married. So, yes, for a short time after they split he did seem to live the single 20s life he never had. Since then he seems to have settled down.

So she stepped up. I mean why does he get a pass? She’s just slightly older than he was.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sharing her life and kids so publicly is abusive in itself. Narcissistic. Maybe if she hadn’t done that, and kept herself to herself…

And how would she have paid for her kids? Jon never had a real job. I think she got caught up in the money and probably felt like that was her best option to stay home with her kids. Can you imagine trying to be a nurse and take care of 8 young kids?

Jon had a job. He worked in IT. They met at a company picnic.

Jon did not have a job that would provide for a family of ten. He was a giant man child. He went on to be a DJ and acted like a teenager.

I don't completely disagree, but he was only a couple years out of high school when he met Kate, then they dated and got married. So, yes, for a short time after they split he did seem to live the single 20s life he never had. Since then he seems to have settled down.

He was a parent at that point. Do you have a lot of sympathy for other dads who decide they just want to have fun and relive the single life despite having 8 kids? I’m sure those guys are all over dating apps but I don’t think mature women find them appealing. Do you think Kate deserved a chance to live the single life she never had either? Jon is not a victim here.

Maybe if your only 2 options to afford your brood are either the extreme generosity of others or reality tv, you should rethink carrying a litter.

I said what I said

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sharing her life and kids so publicly is abusive in itself. Narcissistic. Maybe if she hadn’t done that, and kept herself to herself…

And how would she have paid for her kids? Jon never had a real job. I think she got caught up in the money and probably felt like that was her best option to stay home with her kids. Can you imagine trying to be a nurse and take care of 8 young kids?

Jon had a job. He worked in IT. They met at a company picnic.

Jon did not have a job that would provide for a family of ten. He was a giant man child. He went on to be a DJ and acted like a teenager.

I don't completely disagree, but he was only a couple years out of high school when he met Kate, then they dated and got married. So, yes, for a short time after they split he did seem to live the single 20s life he never had. Since then he seems to have settled down.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sharing her life and kids so publicly is abusive in itself. Narcissistic. Maybe if she hadn’t done that, and kept herself to herself…

And how would she have paid for her kids? Jon never had a real job. I think she got caught up in the money and probably felt like that was her best option to stay home with her kids. Can you imagine trying to be a nurse and take care of 8 young kids?

Jon had a job. He worked in IT. They met at a company picnic.

Jon did not have a job that would provide for a family of ten. He was a giant man child. He went on to be a DJ and acted like a teenager.

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Anonymous wrote:She was bad, yes, but I think almost anyone would crack in some way with that many kids.

She didn't have to have that many kids. Her doctor advised her to reduce.

I'm not trying to be blasé about how horrible it is to have to make that decision. But I also don't think her choices give her a free pass to treat her kids and husband terribly.

Oh I totally agree, this was my comment. I don’t think she or anyone should take on a number of kids that is going to be unmanageable.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sharing her life and kids so publicly is abusive in itself. Narcissistic. Maybe if she hadn’t done that, and kept herself to herself…

And how would she have paid for her kids? Jon never had a real job. I think she got caught up in the money and probably felt like that was her best option to stay home with her kids. Can you imagine trying to be a nurse and take care of 8 young kids?

Jon had a job. He worked in IT. They met at a company picnic.

Anonymous wrote:Sharing her life and kids so publicly is abusive in itself. Narcissistic. Maybe if she hadn’t done that, and kept herself to herself…

And how would she have paid for her kids? Jon never had a real job. I think she got caught up in the money and probably felt like that was her best option to stay home with her kids. Can you imagine trying to be a nurse and take care of 8 young kids?