The difference is confidence. For smart UMC kids getting into the best or their dream school is the culmination of everything they have worked for in their young lives. So many high stat kids pushed themselves, did extracurricular to get into college and focused on that goal. When they succeed, they have a surge of confidence, feel they will do great things and it shows in their engagement. They are thrilled to be there, they believe they deserve to be there and they are happy to be there. They will ignore shortcomings at their university because they are happy to be there.

If they fail to get into what they consider a top school and in this world most of these kids do feel they failed, it’s a blow to their confidence. If they were sure they would get into a particular college it’s a blow to their identity. Some really can set this pain aside and move on quickly but for others they mask their suffering. They loose confidence in themselves, no longer feel they can conquer the world, and may have trouble adjusting to the college they did get into and choose. If they see others less qualified going to better schools, they will wonder what is the point, they can’t win. Any shortcoming will be magnified. It seems to take a year or two for many kids to process and heal from this.

The biggest peer difference in terms of intellectual stimulation will be with peers who aren’t secretly devastated they are there.

Anonymous wrote:Iron sharpens iron.

Steel sharpens steel

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse and I went to TT schools. Because the vast majority of others there were also top students, our lifelong friends who we both made in college are smart, curious, highly motivated. Most have done very well in their chosen careers. They are people for whom education is a top priority.

You will find plenty of people like this at a lower tier school. But they are not as common.

I am sure I will now get a flurry of responses telling me I am a pedigree snob. And perhaps I am. I have plenty of close friends who didn't go to these schools. I remain very close to childhood friends, all of whom went to good but not great state schools.

For me, college was a truly formative four years. I hope it is the same for my children.

you are simply wrong that there are not many smart, talented, motivated, interesting people at other schools.

The intellectual profile is basically identical at pretty much any T25 university or T15 SLAC. None are really any better than any of the others.

No

Sorry if it hurts but it’s true.

Hurts what? It’s absolutely not the same.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse and I went to TT schools. Because the vast majority of others there were also top students, our lifelong friends who we both made in college are smart, curious, highly motivated. Most have done very well in their chosen careers. They are people for whom education is a top priority.

You will find plenty of people like this at a lower tier school. But they are not as common.

I am sure I will now get a flurry of responses telling me I am a pedigree snob. And perhaps I am. I have plenty of close friends who didn't go to these schools. I remain very close to childhood friends, all of whom went to good but not great state schools.

For me, college was a truly formative four years. I hope it is the same for my children.

you are simply wrong that there are not many smart, talented, motivated, interesting people at other schools.

The intellectual profile is basically identical at pretty much any T25 university or T15 SLAC. None are really any better than any of the others.

No

Sorry if it hurts but it’s true.

It is true and you don’t even need to be on campuses all that long to see it and feel it. Not saying T15-25 aren’t great schools, they are phenomenal, but they aren’t the same.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse and I went to TT schools. Because the vast majority of others there were also top students, our lifelong friends who we both made in college are smart, curious, highly motivated. Most have done very well in their chosen careers. They are people for whom education is a top priority.

You will find plenty of people like this at a lower tier school. But they are not as common.

I am sure I will now get a flurry of responses telling me I am a pedigree snob. And perhaps I am. I have plenty of close friends who didn't go to these schools. I remain very close to childhood friends, all of whom went to good but not great state schools.

For me, college was a truly formative four years. I hope it is the same for my children.

you are simply wrong that there are not many smart, talented, motivated, interesting people at other schools.

The intellectual profile is basically identical at pretty much any T25 university or T15 SLAC. None are really any better than any of the others.

No

Sorry if it hurts but it’s true.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t care if the rest of the student body is super smart, I care if they are motivated and enjoy having discussions on various levels. My teens go to a lower performing public school and get frustrated when there are kids who just don’t care, don’t participate, lag during group projects. How do we find a place for our kids that have people who care about learning?

Outside of highly competitive universities (and even there slackers can exist), I’d consider Honors Colleges or other programs that require special applicatIons &/or to maintain high GPA to be in.

The problem with those is that the honors kids do not take all classes separate from the rest, nor do they have dorms,clubs, ECs separate from regular students. The overall motivation and talent pool of the entire undergrad is what matters. In addition some honors programs are very easy to get accepted to. Some from our private who were the bottom third of the high school as far as course rigor got into "honors" at non-top-5 publics but known Top-30-publics. They were the ones who struggled a lot to keep up in high school. If your kid is near the top at such a high school they will not find their people in that kind of "honors" program.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t care if the rest of the student body is super smart, I care if they are motivated and enjoy having discussions on various levels. My teens go to a lower performing public school and get frustrated when there are kids who just don’t care, don’t participate, lag during group projects. How do we find a place for our kids that have people who care about learning?

Those go hand in hand, that’s the issue.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t care if the rest of the student body is super smart, I care if they are motivated and enjoy having discussions on various levels. My teens go to a lower performing public school and get frustrated when there are kids who just don’t care, don’t participate, lag during group projects. How do we find a place for our kids that have people who care about learning?

This happens at elite schools and allegedly high-performing workplaces too.

We had an intern from MIT who ran a con on my F500 employer. Didn't do jack for six weeks. When confronted tried to blame senior employees in other departments. Stole his intern roommate's food and left town with no notice after getting a talking to from HR.

Didn’t know MIT students intern for janitor role.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t care if the rest of the student body is super smart, I care if they are motivated and enjoy having discussions on various levels. My teens go to a lower performing public school and get frustrated when there are kids who just don’t care, don’t participate, lag during group projects. How do we find a place for our kids that have people who care about learning?

This happens at elite schools and allegedly high-performing workplaces too.

We had an intern from MIT who ran a con on my F500 employer. Didn't do jack for six weeks. When confronted tried to blame senior employees in other departments. Stole his intern roommate's food and left town with no notice after getting a talking to from HR.

Yikes!

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t care if the rest of the student body is super smart, I care if they are motivated and enjoy having discussions on various levels. My teens go to a lower performing public school and get frustrated when there are kids who just don’t care, don’t participate, lag during group projects. How do we find a place for our kids that have people who care about learning?

Outside of highly competitive universities (and even there slackers can exist), I’d consider Honors Colleges or other programs that require special applicatIons &/or to maintain high GPA to be in.

Thank you, good idea. Will look into these.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t care if the rest of the student body is super smart, I care if they are motivated and enjoy having discussions on various levels. My teens go to a lower performing public school and get frustrated when there are kids who just don’t care, don’t participate, lag during group projects. How do we find a place for our kids that have people who care about learning?

Outside of highly competitive universities (and even there slackers can exist), I’d consider Honors Colleges or other programs that require special applicatIons &/or to maintain high GPA to be in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My spouse and I went to TT schools. Because the vast majority of others there were also top students, our lifelong friends who we both made in college are smart, curious, highly motivated. Most have done very well in their chosen careers. They are people for whom education is a top priority.

You will find plenty of people like this at a lower tier school. But they are not as common.

I am sure I will now get a flurry of responses telling me I am a pedigree snob. And perhaps I am. I have plenty of close friends who didn't go to these schools. I remain very close to childhood friends, all of whom went to good but not great state schools.

For me, college was a truly formative four years. I hope it is the same for my children.

you are simply wrong that there are not many smart, talented, motivated, interesting people at other schools.

What part of “you will find plenty of people like this at a lower tier school” did you miss? Weak reading comprehension and just looking for a reason to be defensive and angry.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t care if the rest of the student body is super smart, I care if they are motivated and enjoy having discussions on various levels. My teens go to a lower performing public school and get frustrated when there are kids who just don’t care, don’t participate, lag during group projects. How do we find a place for our kids that have people who care about learning?

This happens at elite schools and allegedly high-performing workplaces too.

We had an intern from MIT who ran a con on my F500 employer. Didn't do jack for six weeks. When confronted tried to blame senior employees in other departments. Stole his intern roommate's food and left town with no notice after getting a talking to from HR.

Anonymous wrote:I don’t care if the rest of the student body is super smart, I care if they are motivated and enjoy having discussions on various levels. My teens go to a lower performing public school and get frustrated when there are kids who just don’t care, don’t participate, lag during group projects. How do we find a place for our kids that have people who care about learning?

Those go hand in hand, that’s the issue.

Anonymous wrote:So many people have book sense but no common sense. I plan to send my kid to a school that has people from all walks of life - one that mimics how the real-world workplace is.

You should be encouraging your kids to figure out what real world workplace is a good fit for them. A little bit of a different vibe at the white shoe law firm vs. the public middle school, in my experience.