Anonymous wrote:Honest question from an MCSL parent, why isn’t divisionals a team meet? I don’t understand why they wouldn’t score it that way.

IAS is the individual competition, divisionals is still the same teams competing against each other in a head to head meet.

This would erase this problem completely bc the coaches would place swimmers according to what would put the team in the best position and no one else would be involved in the decision making.

Because Divisionals is the qualifying meet for IAS. If it were a team event, coaches would assign kids based on maximizing team results, not maximizing individual chances to make all stars.

Example: a team has 3 kids who are pretty fast in Freestyle. Only one is fast enough to make IAS, but the other two are also fast enough to earn points for the team. The fastest kid is also a point-earner in backstroke, but not fast enough for IAS. Team does not have other fast backstrokers. As an individual event, that swimmer would swim freestyle for a shot at all stars. As a team event, that swimmer would be put into backstroke so the team could score points in both events, but nobody would qualify for IAS.

If you make Divisionals a team event, you'd have to change how people qualify for all stars. That would be fine, but it's a bigger change than just making Divisionals a team event.

Anonymous wrote:Honest question from an MCSL parent, why isn’t divisionals a team meet? I don’t understand why they wouldn’t score it that way.

IAS is the individual competition, divisionals is still the same teams competing against each other in a head to head meet.

This would erase this problem completely bc the coaches would place swimmers according to what would put the team in the best position and no one else would be involved in the decision making.

Because that’s the way it’s always been (: and they give out the division winner trophies and the sportsmanship trophies at divisionals.

Anonymous wrote:Honest question from an MCSL parent, why isn’t divisionals a team meet? I don’t understand why they wouldn’t score it that way.

IAS is the individual competition, divisionals is still the same teams competing against each other in a head to head meet.

This would erase this problem completely bc the coaches would place swimmers according to what would put the team in the best position and no one else would be involved in the decision making.

I would be interested to know the reasoning as well - perhaps an NVSL poster knows the history?

Our mid-tier MCSL division projects as bascially a three-way 900-point tie tomorrow, which seems like an awesome set up whether my kiddo's team wins or not -- nothing beats racing and cheering with a team focus IMO. Most of these NVSL meets tomorrow would be absolute barn-burners if there was team scoring -- why deprive the kids of that experience when it's sitting right there? You have a whole division infrastructure built to ensure competitiveness year-to-year -- just seems like a total punt.

^ I’m the PP quoted.

True that bid-ins happen, but that’s when a team doesn’t fill their allotted 2 slots. Bid-ins are not guaranteed and are purely luck of circumstances (team not able to fill slot, next fastest time, etc)

To say that someone is being selfish for wanting to swim a certain event at Divisionals at the expense of another team member being able swim is reaching. Many stars would need to align for the extra swimmer to swim.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This sounds pretty selfish of the parents who said no. Wouldn’t they want to see as many teammates at divisionals as possible? That’s why it’s called a “team”!

This is the coach’s call anyway and they should maximize the number of swimmers they bring to divisionals. These parents should stop complaining and think about the bigger picture - be a team player.

For NVSL, each team sends 2 swimmers per Divisional event. The team will NOT be sending extra swimmers to Divisionals. There’s a set number of swimmers going to Divisionals per team period - whether the family said yes or no.

This is not necessarily true. There is always the opportunity for bid-ins if other teams do not fill their slots. It's more common in lower divisions but even happens sometimes in the top divisions. Most common in IM. This year our mid-division team has 4 swimmers in a few events (and 3 swimmers in many more events).

Honest question from an MCSL parent, why isn’t divisionals a team meet? I don’t understand why they wouldn’t score it that way.

IAS is the individual competition, divisionals is still the same teams competing against each other in a head to head meet.

This would erase this problem completely bc the coaches would place swimmers according to what would put the team in the best position and no one else would be involved in the decision making.

Anonymous wrote:This sounds pretty selfish of the parents who said no. Wouldn’t they want to see as many teammates at divisionals as possible? That’s why it’s called a “team”!

This is the coach’s call anyway and they should maximize the number of swimmers they bring to divisionals. These parents should stop complaining and think about the bigger picture - be a team player.

I don’t have the emojis but once again, divisisionals is not a team event and it absolutely it’s the coaches call. It’s the two fastest swimmers period!

Anonymous wrote:I’m surprised they let the swimmers/families pick. In our MCSL team, coaches pick the divisional lineup.

This is NVSL. It’s about the individual swimmer, not the team.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Teach them to have a little perspective.

+1000. This is a chance for the parents of passed-over kid to teach some maturity and grace. Coaches made a choice (and kid knows more than they should about it, too). Kid needs to respect the decision even if they don't agree with it and do the best they can with the opportunity they have been given. Life does things like this a lot (so does one's workplace). Chafing and arguing doesn't typically yield good results. Finding a positive path forward does.

The slower kids can learn maturity. It’s not up to the swimmer who earned and deserves the spot!

Anonymous wrote:OP again, not my kid, but wondering if there is any NVSL complaint process for this.

Your pool needs to establish clear rules for how Divisionals events are chosen. We did this years ago after having a team rep that did something similar. It was approved by the pool board, who has oversight of the team and very clearly sets out how this is done.

Anonymous wrote:This sounds pretty selfish of the parents who said no. Wouldn’t they want to see as many teammates at divisionals as possible? That’s why it’s called a “team”!

This is the coach’s call anyway and they should maximize the number of swimmers they bring to divisionals. These parents should stop complaining and think about the bigger picture - be a team player.

For NVSL, each team sends 2 swimmers per Divisional event. The team will NOT be sending extra swimmers to Divisionals. There’s a set number of swimmers going to Divisionals per team period - whether the family said yes or no.

So toxic, so avoidable, and so detrimental to community and team. It's so easy to follow the ladder, but so hard for some to do it apparently.

That really sucks. There is no recourse. Ultimately, in the NVSL, selection of swimmers for all meets, including divisionals, is up to the team. While the vast majority of teams just go down the ladder for divisonals, it is not a requirement. (and, FWIW, I am aware of one NVSL team that will keep kids out of divisionals if they weren't available for more than 1 A meet.)
At this point, the entries are submitted, it is finished for this year. You can argue for a change in policy on your own team. Depending on whether it was the coach of the team rep- you can either try and take over as team rep, or try and get the coach fired, etc.

Hahahahahahaha. You don't think its selfish on the part of the parents asking the rules to be bent so their slower kid can swim and not have his feelings hurt? You're nuts, stupid or both.

This sounds pretty selfish of the parents who said no. Wouldn’t they want to see as many teammates at divisionals as possible? That’s why it’s called a “team”!

This is the coach’s call anyway and they should maximize the number of swimmers they bring to divisionals. These parents should stop complaining and think about the bigger picture - be a team player.