I had similar thoughts this morning for some reason. My husband came here as a teenager due to turmoil in his home country and he is an extreme saver. I grew up regular middle class which meant my parents took a second mortgage so that I could go to college and I had a lot of student loans. We've lived very frugally so that we could send our kids to college and it has stuck even as our incomes rose (not quite as high as the OP.)

Fwiw I vacillate between feeling immense guilt that some of my kids' friends are new Americans with a lot of burdens and few resources and immense guilt because we've been too frugal to give our kids the trips and frills that most UMC kids have (trips, cars, whatever.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We don’t make as much money. We can afford SOME nice things. For me the shift was time. I used it take the metro because it was cheap. Uber is so much faster. I have people clean my house because it saves me time. I used it so it to save money, but now I just want to save my time for things I enjoy.

I still buy the cheap clothes and cars, but I will spend more money on anything that saves me time.

Partly this. We pay for things that give us back time. That started early as we made more money, because everything felt chaotic before.

We also set a number for ourselves. Once our net worth was over that number, we were able to ease up on our savings and spending and don’t have guilt about it. I would not feel good splurging without all my ducks in a row.

This 1000%!

Wed didn't fly Business often when our NW was "only $10-12M", because we still had kids at home, more expenses and it didnt' seem like a good choice. Now our NW is $20M+ and kids are on their own, we almost always fly business. We can afford it and it's worth it. But we are still "Frugal" and fiscally aware. A 2-3 hour flight does not warrant paying an extra $800-1000+ for business/first. We will save that money and sit in premium economy in an aisle seat. Sure we can technically afford it, but it's not a good use of money. I'd rather donate to a charity than waste it

Frugal means value oriented, not wasteful or excessive.
It does not mean cheap, miserly, or afraid of spending money.
Some on here are not frugal but something else.

I have a "genteel poverty" mindset because I was raised like that. My parents tried their best but money was always an issue. Then I immigrated here and for a long time we lived in penurious condition here. It has impacted me a lot.

My DH has an "affluence mentality" and that makes me even more nervous. He is wasteful, buys more than needed, does not take care of things...it is too much and it makes me unhappy.

Here is what I can gladly spend money on and it is my "rich" life.
- House/car maintenance and timely repairs.
- Education and acquiring skills/experience - classes, books, subscriptions, devices, tutors, travel.
- Organic and/or nutritious food.
- Correct gear/attire - weather, travelling, hobbies, causes, work, hosting, socializing.
- Health - tests, supplements, exercise equipments.

I care about what to wear and how I look, but I am also not name brand-conscious and won't spend too much money on things. I maintain what I have very well and I buy classic pieces so that I look good.

Anonymous wrote:We don’t make as much money. We can afford SOME nice things. For me the shift was time. I used it take the metro because it was cheap. Uber is so much faster. I have people clean my house because it saves me time. I used it so it to save money, but now I just want to save my time for things I enjoy.

I still buy the cheap clothes and cars, but I will spend more money on anything that saves me time.

Partly this. We pay for things that give us back time. That started early as we made more money, because everything felt chaotic before.

We also set a number for ourselves. Once our net worth was over that number, we were able to ease up on our savings and spending and don’t have guilt about it. I would not feel good splurging without all my ducks in a row.

I am an immigrant, and when we first came here, we had so little. I started working pretty much right away because everyone needed to pitch in, and have never stopped. DH's family was really wealthy when he was young, but his dad lost all the money due to trusting the wrong people and poor investments, so he also was pretty low on funds when he was younger. I think that this kind of stuff stays with you, so we have been pretty frugal.

We live a fairly ordinary life, despite being wealthy. Over time though, what we have done, is started to outsource stuff that we both hated doing. Like getting cleaners, landscaping people, etc. It was just kind of circumstantial that we ended up flying business for the first time when my dad passed away (we didn't want to deal with economy in that state of mind), and since then, we fly business on long-haul flights. We both found it worth it. I still won't spend money on designer clothes or handbags; it's not a priority at all. So my advice to you, OP, is to be mindful that spending money on yourself for the things that will improve your quality of life is money well spent.

To the PP who said they were homeless when they were young, and don't understand this at all. How you respond to things like this appears to be really very personal. I've told you how I am. My younger brother is much more of a spendthrift than I am, despite growing up in the same household. I think that personality definitely plays a role. He is generally *much* more laid back about pretty much everything in life than I am.

I will also add a cautionary tale. I have an aunt who is 95, who grew up in extreme poverty, and is easily a multi-millionaire. She lives in a rent controlled apartment in a shitty area, wears hand me downs, and subsists on sale/clearance food. You don't want to be her.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I agree it's some weird mental hangup. We rationally understand we can afford a lot more without jeopardizing security/the future.

But when I go to a fancy restaurant, I mentally still look at all the entree prices and make value judgements. We love to travel but I'm struggling to make the leap to nicer hotels and business class. I don't even like buying the teenagers $140 sneakers. I do it, because it's the kids and it's important to them, but I am outraged by it and would NEVER by myself $140 sneakers.

What is wrong with me? And yes I grew up working class. DH grew up more middle class and later upper middle class by HS, but his parents are also frugal.

I really do want to make the shift. But I am full of guilt over things I don't "need" that are "wasteful."

Interesting. We make a lot more than you and I’ve never spent $140 on sneakers for my now college-aged kids AND I don’t think I’m frugal at all. Maybe I think more of value than frugality. Then again, what’s wasteful to you is not the same to me.

it is all about what you value. My kids knew to not ask for $140 sneakers. My girls knew they were not getting Lulu or real Uggs until they stopped growing (despite half the kids in 1st/2nd grade being outfitted as such). Sure we can afford it, but why would you spend on that (unless you have 2-3 more kids in line to wear it as hand-me-downs)? Once they stopped growing, we were more willing to spend on quality if the kids wanted it---but my kid was happy with Fake Uggs from Costco for many years.

Maybe your kids are young? You’d be hard pressed to find a kid at our public MS or HS without $100+ sneakers and some Lululemon or Ugg clothing/shoes. For the boys it’s professional sports swag.

My kids are in their 20s. We lived in UMC+ areas when they were in school. But my girls were late MS before they got Lulu or Ugg---as stated, once they stopped growing. MS is very different than ES (where half the girls in 1st grade were dressed like that, for items they'd outgrow in 5-6 months). My son also got nicer stuff once stopped growing, but knew he was not getting more than 1-2 pairs of shoes (he only wanted one at a time). And my girls wore fake Uggs and target leggings happily into HS, along with their Lulu stuff. They were not status seekers. And yes they were popular.

That’s nice. It’s just not like that where we live.

not like what? I stated we had kids in Lulu and Uggs in ES. It's your choice as a parent whether to spend on that. But IMO, unless you have retirement and college FULLY funded, it seems silly to spend on things like that when your kid will outgrow it in 3-6 months.
A lot of your kid's attitudes come from you the parent. Despite the surrounding environment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:OP here. I agree it's some weird mental hangup. We rationally understand we can afford a lot more without jeopardizing security/the future.

But when I go to a fancy restaurant, I mentally still look at all the entree prices and make value judgements. We love to travel but I'm struggling to make the leap to nicer hotels and business class. I don't even like buying the teenagers $140 sneakers. I do it, because it's the kids and it's important to them, but I am outraged by it and would NEVER by myself $140 sneakers.

What is wrong with me? And yes I grew up working class. DH grew up more middle class and later upper middle class by HS, but his parents are also frugal.

I really do want to make the shift. But I am full of guilt over things I don't "need" that are "wasteful."

Interesting. We make a lot more than you and I’ve never spent $140 on sneakers for my now college-aged kids AND I don’t think I’m frugal at all. Maybe I think more of value than frugality. Then again, what’s wasteful to you is not the same to me.

it is all about what you value. My kids knew to not ask for $140 sneakers. My girls knew they were not getting Lulu or real Uggs until they stopped growing (despite half the kids in 1st/2nd grade being outfitted as such). Sure we can afford it, but why would you spend on that (unless you have 2-3 more kids in line to wear it as hand-me-downs)? Once they stopped growing, we were more willing to spend on quality if the kids wanted it---but my kid was happy with Fake Uggs from Costco for many years.

Maybe your kids are young? You’d be hard pressed to find a kid at our public MS or HS without $100+ sneakers and some Lululemon or Ugg clothing/shoes. For the boys it’s professional sports swag.

Most kids in MS/HS have "stopped growing". It was ES when my kids did not get those things. Once in MS/HS and they asked for it, they could have them, within reason. But I'm not spending on real Uggs or Lulu for a kid who will outgrow it in 3-5 months. Doesn' matter how much I'm worth. That is a waste of $$$.

Anonymous wrote:Within reason because obviously you aren’t going to change your entire personality. How to do this?

We are mid 40’s, fully saved for college and doing well on savings; mortgage done in a few years. HHI has increased dramatically in the past few years (400k to 800k+) and expenses have remained low. No plans to change housing expenses but maybe could use some home upgrades and maintenance. Cars good.

How to make the mental shift?

Anyone?

We set aside a certain amount for each of us to spend. We physically put it in a different account for each of us. It took a while for us to use it as we both waited until it had accumulated a bit. We now both go on a separate weekend trip. I go to NYC for the USOpen with my sister and a friend from college and DH goes on a ski trip with one friend or another.

I was not able to do this until I retired, knew my kid had gotten through college with no loans, house was paid off, etc.

You can start with little indulgences (rooms with ocean view, better food, car, nicer gifts) and you will probably realize you enjoy finer things.

It is a process, since I am so used to being frugal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to figure out the reasons you have anxiety about spending money.

For me, it's because my parents made me work full time over the summers and winter breaks to have spending money and contribute to tuition. They cut me off senior year in college because they didn't like my boyfriend. Money in the bank is security to me so I have a buffer against job loss, divorce, etc.

Same
Age 17 left home never ever did my parents support me again.

Great. I left home at 15. Mine supported me even less. Didn't cause me to have anxiety about money.
Money in the bank is security and that why most work and save, but where does the anxiety come so easily? I moved from continent to continent and was homeless the first few months 3 times. Still no anxiety about spending money.
None of the things you mentioned is a big deal.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to figure out the reasons you have anxiety about spending money.

For me, it's because my parents made me work full time over the summers and winter breaks to have spending money and contribute to tuition. They cut me off senior year in college because they didn't like my boyfriend. Money in the bank is security to me so I have a buffer against job loss, divorce, etc.

Same
Age 17 left home never ever did my parents support me again.

Same

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You need to figure out the reasons you have anxiety about spending money.

For me, it's because my parents made me work full time over the summers and winter breaks to have spending money and contribute to tuition. They cut me off senior year in college because they didn't like my boyfriend. Money in the bank is security to me so I have a buffer against job loss, divorce, etc.

Same
Age 17 left home never ever did my parents support me again.

Anonymous wrote:Within reason because obviously you aren’t going to change your entire personality. How to do this?

We are mid 40’s, fully saved for college and doing well on savings; mortgage done in a few years. HHI has increased dramatically in the past few years (400k to 800k+) and expenses have remained low. No plans to change housing expenses but maybe could use some home upgrades and maintenance. Cars good.

How to make the mental shift?

Anyone?

Now is not the time to make this mental shift.

Yes I am going to politics because now it not the time to be spending one dime that is not necessary.

Trump is destroying the whole country. This was always the plan. There is no reality it is not going to get exponentially worse in the next year.

Anonymous wrote:You need to figure out the reasons you have anxiety about spending money.

For me, it's because my parents made me work full time over the summers and winter breaks to have spending money and contribute to tuition. They cut me off senior year in college because they didn't like my boyfriend. Money in the bank is security to me so I have a buffer against job loss, divorce, etc.