Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is fascinating. I see healthy, well adjusted, secure adults who recognize a friend group can exist as its own entity and not be hurt or bothered when they aren’t part of that friend group and then I see a bunch of adults who immediately pivot to “rude, petty, mean girl, bullying” blaming. I can guarantee you the first group is better received in real life social situations and happier overall without immediately resorting to ugly thoughts and self victimization because … another group of women is friends and want to talk to each other.

I don't see OP or others saying that the friend group shouldn't exist or that OP has to be part of it. More that it's weird that the group could not be situationally friendly at the pool one day to a fellow mom from school, for a short period of time.

When I'm with a friend group in a public place and someone we all know shows up, especially if our kids are playing together, I'd happily chat with her for a bit and I'd think it was odd if any of my friends was resistant to it.

I think it would be different if OP only knew one of the women, or if kids weren't present, or if it was a private setting (like if the women were eating dinner together and OP pulled up a chair). But this was a neighborhood pool, all their kids were playing, and all of them know each other from the school. It's weird to be exclusive in that setting.

The issue is that it’s not one time, it’s constant and OP takes over what was supposed to be a casual and fun hangout. We all know women like this.

How could it possibly be "constant"? How often are these women running into each other? Even if OP had an annoying personality (I don't get that vibe personally), this would only happen on the presumably rare occasion when this group of women are hanging out together in a public place where OP also is and where it is possible for her to join uninvited. How often does that happen?

Generally if I want to socialize and have a good private hang with my friends, we go to someone's house, out to dinner or for drinks, day trip out of town, etc.

I would never consider an afternoon at the neighborhood pool a good setting for a hangout with just my friend group. I would assume we will run into people that one or more of us know, and that it's highly likely we will wind up chatting with other people. Especially with kids present.

Do you schedule your regular bestie catch up during school drop off? Don't do that.

Anonymous wrote:This thread is fascinating. I see healthy, well adjusted, secure adults who recognize a friend group can exist as its own entity and not be hurt or bothered when they aren’t part of that friend group and then I see a bunch of adults who immediately pivot to “rude, petty, mean girl, bullying” blaming. I can guarantee you the first group is better received in real life social situations and happier overall without immediately resorting to ugly thoughts and self victimization because … another group of women is friends and want to talk to each other.

Agreed. And that's not to say the other women in OPs post aren't "mean girls" - they might be. But it's equally likely that they are just closer friends and either meant no intentional exclusion (there might not even have been any) or had something they want to discuss that wasn't just small talk and weren't comfortable discussing it around OP.

Having moved mid-elementary school to a neighborhood that has a very social element, I've been on all sides. Sometimes I feel awkward and excluded, other times very welcomed, and other times, I worry if I'm coming off as being cliquey because I'm talking to someone I know better (although I try VERY hard to make sure I'm not excluding anyone).

My conclusion - most of it is entirely unintentional. People are self-absorbed, have good days and bad days, etc. It's human nature. And it's human nature to be more friendly with people who are like you (similar jobs/educations/upbringing).

My husband hates it. Because he is highly sensitive to any rejection and takes everything as a slight. He's also deeply insecure and then thinks everyone is snobby about jobs/education etc. It's exhausting.


These don't have to be "your people" OP - they just have to be reasonably polite and not mean to your kid.

Anonymous wrote:OP are you of a different:
-religion than that group of 4 moms?
-ethnicty?
-race?
-age?
-fatter/skinnier than them?
-work/sahm and they are opposite?
-you are/not involved in school's PTSA and they are opposite of your level of involvement?
-your maritial status different than theirs.

So many petty reasons. Middle aged women are sometimes worse than a middle school clique, imho.

I find a lot of women are very picky about friendships, much like they were in high school, and any of those factors listed above can exclude you.

Me? It's because I am overweight and have so health issues.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a classic clique to me. No reflection on you that they won’t let you in.

+1
They came to socialize only with each other.

Not ideal in a public neighborhood place, but it has nothing to do with you. Hopefully your other neighbors are more inviting

This.

It’s that same one mom who you can’t tell anything to casually, because she will then ramrod herself and her child in.

Oh there’s a few 3rd grade boys attending a camp? Tell me which one, which days, what times? I’ll sign Larlo up. What are you doing this weekend? Oh there’s a rec center pajama ice skate and you’re taking Mark with John and his mom? What time??? Let’s meet up?

Yes we all know neighborhood moms like this and they gossip too. I’m fine saying hi at the bus stop but I wouldn’t go out of my way to invite to coffee if I’m getting together with one or two other neighbors bc I know Larlo’s mom will be obnoxious. She thinks she is being social and fun.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is fascinating. I see healthy, well adjusted, secure adults who recognize a friend group can exist as its own entity and not be hurt or bothered when they aren’t part of that friend group and then I see a bunch of adults who immediately pivot to “rude, petty, mean girl, bullying” blaming. I can guarantee you the first group is better received in real life social situations and happier overall without immediately resorting to ugly thoughts and self victimization because … another group of women is friends and want to talk to each other.

I don't see OP or others saying that the friend group shouldn't exist or that OP has to be part of it. More that it's weird that the group could not be situationally friendly at the pool one day to a fellow mom from school, for a short period of time.

When I'm with a friend group in a public place and someone we all know shows up, especially if our kids are playing together, I'd happily chat with her for a bit and I'd think it was odd if any of my friends was resistant to it.

I think it would be different if OP only knew one of the women, or if kids weren't present, or if it was a private setting (like if the women were eating dinner together and OP pulled up a chair). But this was a neighborhood pool, all their kids were playing, and all of them know each other from the school. It's weird to be exclusive in that setting.

Yes, exactly.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is fascinating. I see healthy, well adjusted, secure adults who recognize a friend group can exist as its own entity and not be hurt or bothered when they aren’t part of that friend group and then I see a bunch of adults who immediately pivot to “rude, petty, mean girl, bullying” blaming. I can guarantee you the first group is better received in real life social situations and happier overall without immediately resorting to ugly thoughts and self victimization because … another group of women is friends and want to talk to each other.

I don't see OP or others saying that the friend group shouldn't exist or that OP has to be part of it. More that it's weird that the group could not be situationally friendly at the pool one day to a fellow mom from school, for a short period of time.

When I'm with a friend group in a public place and someone we all know shows up, especially if our kids are playing together, I'd happily chat with her for a bit and I'd think it was odd if any of my friends was resistant to it.

I think it would be different if OP only knew one of the women, or if kids weren't present, or if it was a private setting (like if the women were eating dinner together and OP pulled up a chair). But this was a neighborhood pool, all their kids were playing, and all of them know each other from the school. It's weird to be exclusive in that setting.

The issue is that it’s not one time, it’s constant and OP takes over what was supposed to be a casual and fun hangout. We all know women like this.

Who said anything about OP "taking over"? Keep justifying your meanness though, by all means. Great modeling for your kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is fascinating. I see healthy, well adjusted, secure adults who recognize a friend group can exist as its own entity and not be hurt or bothered when they aren’t part of that friend group and then I see a bunch of adults who immediately pivot to “rude, petty, mean girl, bullying” blaming. I can guarantee you the first group is better received in real life social situations and happier overall without immediately resorting to ugly thoughts and self victimization because … another group of women is friends and want to talk to each other.

I don't see OP or others saying that the friend group shouldn't exist or that OP has to be part of it. More that it's weird that the group could not be situationally friendly at the pool one day to a fellow mom from school, for a short period of time.

When I'm with a friend group in a public place and someone we all know shows up, especially if our kids are playing together, I'd happily chat with her for a bit and I'd think it was odd if any of my friends was resistant to it.

I think it would be different if OP only knew one of the women, or if kids weren't present, or if it was a private setting (like if the women were eating dinner together and OP pulled up a chair). But this was a neighborhood pool, all their kids were playing, and all of them know each other from the school. It's weird to be exclusive in that setting.

The issue is that it’s not one time, it’s constant and OP takes over what was supposed to be a casual and fun hangout. We all know women like this.

Anonymous wrote:This thread is fascinating. I see healthy, well adjusted, secure adults who recognize a friend group can exist as its own entity and not be hurt or bothered when they aren’t part of that friend group and then I see a bunch of adults who immediately pivot to “rude, petty, mean girl, bullying” blaming. I can guarantee you the first group is better received in real life social situations and happier overall without immediately resorting to ugly thoughts and self victimization because … another group of women is friends and want to talk to each other.

I don't see OP or others saying that the friend group shouldn't exist or that OP has to be part of it. More that it's weird that the group could not be situationally friendly at the pool one day to a fellow mom from school, for a short period of time.

When I'm with a friend group in a public place and someone we all know shows up, especially if our kids are playing together, I'd happily chat with her for a bit and I'd think it was odd if any of my friends was resistant to it.

I think it would be different if OP only knew one of the women, or if kids weren't present, or if it was a private setting (like if the women were eating dinner together and OP pulled up a chair). But this was a neighborhood pool, all their kids were playing, and all of them know each other from the school. It's weird to be exclusive in that setting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is fascinating. I see healthy, well adjusted, secure adults who recognize a friend group can exist as its own entity and not be hurt or bothered when they aren’t part of that friend group and then I see a bunch of adults who immediately pivot to “rude, petty, mean girl, bullying” blaming. I can guarantee you the first group is better received in real life social situations and happier overall without immediately resorting to ugly thoughts and self victimization because … another group of women is friends and want to talk to each other.

Ha, keep telling yourself that lack of generosity and kindness is perfectly normal. We see you.

It’s hard enough to find time to get together with people that all get along and are close. And then that whole afternoon is taken up by OP inserting herself the entire time and talking. It would have been perfectly reasonable for OP to say hi and chat for a couple minutes and then excuse herself. If they want her to stay they can say so.

Don't expect private time at the neighborhood pool

People might just <gasp> try to start up a conversation

And sounds like these women see each other all the time! Call it what it is, a clique. By definition exclusionary, and that's a choice not a requirement.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like a classic clique to me. No reflection on you that they won’t let you in.

+1
They came to socialize only with each other.

Not ideal in a public neighborhood place, but it has nothing to do with you. Hopefully your other neighbors are more inviting

+1. I deal with a similar situation in my neighborhood. My daughter is the same age and friends with several of the girls whose mothers are in a tight clique so I do my best to try to be social to keep her included because otherwise she’ll also be left out. There are some moms in that group who go out of their way to make it so awkward to anyone not in the clique. They’ll plan other social events and after parties with the clique right in front of me. It is what it is, but I didn’t expect that women would still be doing this in their 40s.

It happens more because women at this age are losing power or at least think they are. They are aging loose wise, may have been out of the workforce for a while, and are realizing their husbands have more power in the relationship especially if they don’t have any income.

It’s the same reason middle school girls act this way. Fear.

Best thing to do is focus on your career and not neighborhood moms. The kids eventually make their own friends anyway.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is fascinating. I see healthy, well adjusted, secure adults who recognize a friend group can exist as its own entity and not be hurt or bothered when they aren’t part of that friend group and then I see a bunch of adults who immediately pivot to “rude, petty, mean girl, bullying” blaming. I can guarantee you the first group is better received in real life social situations and happier overall without immediately resorting to ugly thoughts and self victimization because … another group of women is friends and want to talk to each other.

Ha, keep telling yourself that lack of generosity and kindness is perfectly normal. We see you.

It’s hard enough to find time to get together with people that all get along and are close. And then that whole afternoon is taken up by OP inserting herself the entire time and talking. It would have been perfectly reasonable for OP to say hi and chat for a couple minutes and then excuse herself. If they want her to stay they can say so.

Don't expect private time at the neighborhood pool

People might just <gasp> try to start up a conversation

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This thread is fascinating. I see healthy, well adjusted, secure adults who recognize a friend group can exist as its own entity and not be hurt or bothered when they aren’t part of that friend group and then I see a bunch of adults who immediately pivot to “rude, petty, mean girl, bullying” blaming. I can guarantee you the first group is better received in real life social situations and happier overall without immediately resorting to ugly thoughts and self victimization because … another group of women is friends and want to talk to each other.

Ha, keep telling yourself that lack of generosity and kindness is perfectly normal. We see you.

It’s hard enough to find time to get together with people that all get along and are close. And then that whole afternoon is taken up by OP inserting herself the entire time and talking. It would have been perfectly reasonable for OP to say hi and chat for a couple minutes and then excuse herself. If they want her to stay they can say so.

They only like each other and don’t want you in their group. Same situation in my neighborhood - I think they just don’t like me and/or my husband. The only reason I’m ever invited to stuff is because my child is popular. When situations like this happen where they’ve clearly pre planned something amongst themselves I just steer clear and look for other people in the vicinity to socialize with.

I won’t say don’t take it personally because it’s clearly personal…but don’t let it get you down.

Anonymous wrote:This thread is fascinating. I see healthy, well adjusted, secure adults who recognize a friend group can exist as its own entity and not be hurt or bothered when they aren’t part of that friend group and then I see a bunch of adults who immediately pivot to “rude, petty, mean girl, bullying” blaming. I can guarantee you the first group is better received in real life social situations and happier overall without immediately resorting to ugly thoughts and self victimization because … another group of women is friends and want to talk to each other.

Ha, keep telling yourself that lack of generosity and kindness is perfectly normal. We see you.