Anonymous wrote:My DD had a private CC. It was only an ok experience. I feel he pushed my DD to apply ED to a school she had a good chance of getting into RD, that wasn't her top choice but was lower down in her top 5-6.

I think he just wanted to close out as many "wins" as possible rather than work for the best possible outcome for her as a person.

Private CCs don't just work for your DC. They aren't exclusively on call for your family. A good CC is often juggling 20+ different families during any one season to make ends meet.

The VIP families that are paying 3X or 5X their already very high fee is probably getting most of their attention.

This has been my experience too. We’ve had much better luck with our school-based counselor than the one we hired.

Anonymous wrote:My DD had a private CC. It was only an ok experience. I feel he pushed my DD to apply ED to a school she had a good chance of getting into RD, that wasn't her top choice but was lower down in her top 5-6.

I think he just wanted to close out as many "wins" as possible rather than work for the best possible outcome for her as a person.

Private CCs don't just work for your DC. They aren't exclusively on call for your family. A good CC is often juggling 20+ different families during any one season to make ends meet.

The VIP families that are paying 3X or 5X their already very high fee is probably getting most of their attention.

It's very easy to push back to private counselor. Just say no, there is no consequence unlike to a school counselor.
Why you agree to it?

No one expect a private counselor work exclusively for you. That would be really expensive and unnecessary. The key part is still the kid.

How is VIP families paying 3x or 5x? Did they book more time? You could do that if you want, but you opt out because you think it's not necessary.

My DD had a private CC. It was only an ok experience. I feel he pushed my DD to apply ED to a school she had a good chance of getting into RD, that wasn't her top choice but was lower down in her top 5-6.

I think he just wanted to close out as many "wins" as possible rather than work for the best possible outcome for her as a person.

Private CCs don't just work for your DC. They aren't exclusively on call for your family. A good CC is often juggling 20+ different families during any one season to make ends meet.

The VIP families that are paying 3X or 5X their already very high fee is probably getting most of their attention.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking as a college admissions consultant, the reason why we get a bad rap is because in the 2010s, the only credentialing programs for independents were the same ones that credentialed high school college counselors. So the perception that we were redundant and only for families who needed extra help the high school counselor couldn't provide was largely true.

Since then, however, the field has matured and evolved a lot. In many ways that school counselors aren't aware of. In my practice, we use admissions rubrics from highly selective college admissions offices that we've combined with proprietary data we gathered from colleges, the CollegeBoard, our partnerships with local high school counselors, and our own clientele dating back 16 years. It allows us to run gap analyses on students so services are targeted and pragmatic, and additive rather than redundant, wasteful, or off-target.

The admissions rubrics we used were gathered from active involvement in NACAC over more than a decade—and won't be found by parents searching online. Furthermore, the most valuable insights we gained about below-average SAT/ACT patterns that can still win admission at various colleges were drawn from the period before test-optional policies became widespread. The pre-test optional score thresholds still hold true in today's test-optional environment and aid in the decision to report SAT/ACT scores or withhold them. But someone trying to draw the same conclusions today would have an extremely difficult time sorting through current data given the diversity of testing policies across colleges.

Beware the bigger firms that are driven by sales. If you look on Yelp and Google Business Reviews, you can find college consultants who consult to the size of the gap that's actually necessary and helpful. You may have to search for consultants in other cities, as everyone works virtually now. But we're out there.

The outside counselors work for their clients, so they tell them what they want to hear, rather than giving them the honest feedback and realistic advice that the school counselor is more likely to give. Telling kids to load up on as many AP courses as possible is not very useful and possibly harmful to some kids who cannot handle that course load. But, a lot of families feel that if they are spending a lot of money on something then it must be giving them an advantage. The school counselors can often tell which outside counselor has been hired as soon as they read the student’s draft of their essay. Not impressed at all by this business.

It's actually the opposite. School counselors work for the school, so they lowball students and try to get them to ED schools that are less prestigious than what they can reasonably get into, so they can make space for URMs, Legacies, etc. Private counselors depend on word-of-mouth and marketing so they want your kid to get into an Ivy. The school counselor would rather rig the game.

Correct.

School counselors advocate for the school, they work to maximize the number of students accepted to ivies. But they don't laser-focus on an individual student particularly an unhooked individual student. A high-stats unhook may RD to ten T20 and accepted to all ten, that means it takes away 10 acceptances from the school. School counselors rather you ED Chicago and done with it so that the rest of the T20 can be allocated to FG LI, UMR, legacy, and other unhooked hi-stats.

Having an independent outside counselor can evaluate your DC's chance to ivies and t10 without the influence of school results as a whole. But you got to work this carefully between school counselor and independent counselor. The school counselor is the one who writes the recommendation letter, you want her to be on your side or at least approve your list.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking as a college admissions consultant, the reason why we get a bad rap is because in the 2010s, the only credentialing programs for independents were the same ones that credentialed high school college counselors. So the perception that we were redundant and only for families who needed extra help the high school counselor couldn't provide was largely true.

Since then, however, the field has matured and evolved a lot. In many ways that school counselors aren't aware of. In my practice, we use admissions rubrics from highly selective college admissions offices that we've combined with proprietary data we gathered from colleges, the CollegeBoard, our partnerships with local high school counselors, and our own clientele dating back 16 years. It allows us to run gap analyses on students so services are targeted and pragmatic, and additive rather than redundant, wasteful, or off-target.

The admissions rubrics we used were gathered from active involvement in NACAC over more than a decade—and won't be found by parents searching online. Furthermore, the most valuable insights we gained about below-average SAT/ACT patterns that can still win admission at various colleges were drawn from the period before test-optional policies became widespread. The pre-test optional score thresholds still hold true in today's test-optional environment and aid in the decision to report SAT/ACT scores or withhold them. But someone trying to draw the same conclusions today would have an extremely difficult time sorting through current data given the diversity of testing policies across colleges.

Beware the bigger firms that are driven by sales. If you look on Yelp and Google Business Reviews, you can find college consultants who consult to the size of the gap that's actually necessary and helpful. You may have to search for consultants in other cities, as everyone works virtually now. But we're out there.

The outside counselors work for their clients, so they tell them what they want to hear, rather than giving them the honest feedback and realistic advice that the school counselor is more likely to give. Telling kids to load up on as many AP courses as possible is not very useful and possibly harmful to some kids who cannot handle that course load. But, a lot of families feel that if they are spending a lot of money on something then it must be giving them an advantage. The school counselors can often tell which outside counselor has been hired as soon as they read the student’s draft of their essay. Not impressed at all by this business.

It's actually the opposite. School counselors work for the school, so they lowball students and try to get them to ED schools that are less prestigious than what they can reasonably get into, so they can make space for URMs, Legacies, etc. Private counselors depend on word-of-mouth and marketing so they want your kid to get into an Ivy. The school counselor would rather rig the game.

Anonymous wrote:OP, I don't think counselors are either a good or bad idea. They have pros and cons that might make them a good or bad idea FOR YOUR FAMILY.

I personally think "my child got into HYP without a counselor, therefore no one needs one" is a silly argument.

IMO the right analogy is a housecleaner. I can clean my house on my own. Would a housecleaner do a better job cleaning than I do? Probably. Would it produce a wildly different end result? No, my house would still get cleaned. Is it worth the $300 to have someone else do the job, potentially somewhat better/faster? Only I can answer that.

I think where people go wrong with counselors is having overblown expectations for what they can do.

Great analogy- I agree!

OP, I don't think counselors are either a good or bad idea. They have pros and cons that might make them a good or bad idea FOR YOUR FAMILY.

I personally think "my child got into HYP without a counselor, therefore no one needs one" is a silly argument.

IMO the right analogy is a housecleaner. I can clean my house on my own. Would a housecleaner do a better job cleaning than I do? Probably. Would it produce a wildly different end result? No, my house would still get cleaned. Is it worth the $300 to have someone else do the job, potentially somewhat better/faster? Only I can answer that.

I think where people go wrong with counselors is having overblown expectations for what they can do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It was helpful for us.
My son was not organized, despite being a very bright young man. 1580 SAT one seating and 3.9/4 UW.

The essay reviewer alone was worth the cost. It helped that the counselor was previously at two different Ivy admissions office.

He got in 3 Ivy’s + Stanford.

Similar situation here. My son had a private counselor for 3 years. He aced the SAT and ACT in one seating, but GPA was just 3.7/4 UW. Counselor helped with EC ideas and organizing. DS is lazy. Typical smart kid but lazy. The structured program helped him focus.

He is now at Yale.

mind sharing the counselor's name?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College admissions officers will take a phone call from a school counselor. They will not take a call from an independent one. Your school counselor can support your child better. They also have all of the data the independent counselor has. Also, please let your kid take the lead in some of this. They have to own the process a bit in order for this to work.

No! College AOs are not allowed to take phone calls from the school counselor nowadays. Please stop with this ill informed nonsense.

This is inaccurate for our private.

Officially…PP is correct according to top schools. Unofficially, I guess nobody can stop anyone from taking a phone call.

I think everyone agrees it’s different from the old days when the Andover counselor would ring up Harvard and they collectively decided who would attend.

It's an ethical issue.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On YCBK today the host and Julia talked about how private counselors can make it worse for students at independent schools. Anyone have experience with this?

Yes. At my DDs school, the few kids who got into Ivy's did not use private college counselors. The vast majority of families used private counselors though, and likely strived for Ivy but ended up at the Wake Forrests, Tufts, Tulane tier schools. A lot of false hope for mediocre kids from ambitious families.

What does everyone assume they want their kids at ivies? My two high stats kids both didn't have ivies on their lists but got into very selective schools with the help of an outside consultant.

My mediocre kid would have been thrilled to get into Wake Forest, Tulane or Tufts. As a parent, I would have been thrilled too. Perspective.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College admissions officers will take a phone call from a school counselor. They will not take a call from an independent one. Your school counselor can support your child better. They also have all of the data the independent counselor has. Also, please let your kid take the lead in some of this. They have to own the process a bit in order for this to work.

No! College AOs are not allowed to take phone calls from the school counselor nowadays. Please stop with this ill informed nonsense.

This is inaccurate for our private.

Officially…PP is correct according to top schools. Unofficially, I guess nobody can stop anyone from taking a phone call.

I think everyone agrees it’s different from the old days when the Andover counselor would ring up Harvard and they collectively decided who would attend.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:On YCBK today the host and Julia talked about how private counselors can make it worse for students at independent schools. Anyone have experience with this?

Yes. At my DDs school, the few kids who got into Ivy's did not use private college counselors. The vast majority of families used private counselors though, and likely strived for Ivy but ended up at the Wake Forrests, Tufts, Tulane tier schools. A lot of false hope for mediocre kids from ambitious families.

What does everyone assume they want their kids at ivies? My two high stats kids both didn't have ivies on their lists but got into very selective schools with the help of an outside consultant.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:College admissions officers will take a phone call from a school counselor. They will not take a call from an independent one. Your school counselor can support your child better. They also have all of the data the independent counselor has. Also, please let your kid take the lead in some of this. They have to own the process a bit in order for this to work.

No! College AOs are not allowed to take phone calls from the school counselor nowadays. Please stop with this ill informed nonsense.

This is inaccurate for our private.

Anonymous wrote:On YCBK today the host and Julia talked about how private counselors can make it worse for students at independent schools. Anyone have experience with this?

Yes. At my DDs school, the few kids who got into Ivy's did not use private college counselors. The vast majority of families used private counselors though, and likely strived for Ivy but ended up at the Wake Forrests, Tufts, Tulane tier schools. A lot of false hope for mediocre kids from ambitious families.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Speaking as a college admissions consultant, the reason why we get a bad rap is because in the 2010s, the only credentialing programs for independents were the same ones that credentialed high school college counselors. So the perception that we were redundant and only for families who needed extra help the high school counselor couldn't provide was largely true.

Since then, however, the field has matured and evolved a lot. In many ways that school counselors aren't aware of. In my practice, we use admissions rubrics from highly selective college admissions offices that we've combined with proprietary data we gathered from colleges, the CollegeBoard, our partnerships with local high school counselors, and our own clientele dating back 16 years. It allows us to run gap analyses on students so services are targeted and pragmatic, and additive rather than redundant, wasteful, or off-target.

The admissions rubrics we used were gathered from active involvement in NACAC over more than a decade—and won't be found by parents searching online. Furthermore, the most valuable insights we gained about below-average SAT/ACT patterns that can still win admission at various colleges were drawn from the period before test-optional policies became widespread. The pre-test optional score thresholds still hold true in today's test-optional environment and aid in the decision to report SAT/ACT scores or withhold them. But someone trying to draw the same conclusions today would have an extremely difficult time sorting through current data given the diversity of testing policies across colleges.

Beware the bigger firms that are driven by sales. If you look on Yelp and Google Business Reviews, you can find college consultants who consult to the size of the gap that's actually necessary and helpful. You may have to search for consultants in other cities, as everyone works virtually now. But we're out there.

The outside counselors work for their clients, so they tell them what they want to hear, rather than giving them the honest feedback and realistic advice that the school counselor is more likely to give. Telling kids to load up on as many AP courses as possible is not very useful and possibly harmful to some kids who cannot handle that course load. But, a lot of families feel that if they are spending a lot of money on something then it must be giving them an advantage. The school counselors can often tell which outside counselor has been hired as soon as they read the student’s draft of their essay. Not impressed at all by this business.

That’s a valid point and a pertinent issue among many consultants across all industries, not just college admissions consultants. My mom encountered the same problem with a probate lawyer who specialized in probate litigation. Because he was a fighter who was paid to fight, he was more than happy to run up huge bills pursuing a losing case. Unknown to us, our case was doomed by the malpractice of the attorney who had originally drafted my grandparents’ trust and amendment incorrectly. It all ended with malpractice lawsuits against both the original drafting attorney and the litigating attorney (he had a duty to tell her, and he didn’t). Both settled massively in my mom’s favor. Not everyone's a fan of college admissions consultants—or lawyers. I get it. But there's a lot of diversity and range when it comes to quality within each industry.

Some years ago, I began requiring clients of College Zoom – Admissions Consulting to do a paid gap analysis on an admissions rubric before committing to services with us. It’s been great. It allows us to distinguish which families’ needs will be satisfied by a single meeting to course-correct versus which ones warrant longer-term services—and to what extent. Families we aren't able to help are caught by the free discovery call that happens first so they don't go on.

So my advice to anyone hiring a college consultant is to see if they offer an honest paid assessment in advance. It can be very much worth the cost.

Regarding AP course loads, the benefit of a well-mapped rubric is that it can identify the minimum number of AP or honors classes a student at a particular high school should take to be competitive for each college. In fact, going beyond that AP/honors threshold results in diminishing returns. Consultants who send kids on wild goose chases that lead to burnout often don’t know what those thresholds are. Asking about that can be a great vetting question for anyone shopping around for a college admissions consultant.

In terms of essay help, the best support doesn’t leave the consultant’s fingerprint on it. To maintain the student’s creativity and natural voice, the right story has to be selected, as that will be the easiest one for the student to write authentically. Most of the writing coaching should focus on scaffolding the right narrative outline—so the best angle is charted through the story—and sequencing ideas to deliver maximum potency and clarity for the reader. I always tell the kids that whoever reads your essay on the other side of the admissions table is going to imagine “you” as someone who looks entirely different. Your room won’t be your room; your parents (if they appear in the essay) won’t be your parents. The story should be so engaging and free of gimmicks that the reader focuses on the experience unfolding rather than any hints of a particular consultant’s assistance.