Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the time a senior applies they will have 3 YEARS of grades and ECs, they will have test scores, letters of recommendations, and essays. Let’s say they also have UW 4.0, a rigorous course load and 1550/35+ In holistic admissions, with all that information, why on earth would an admissions committee look at how student performed on a single exam they took in a couple of hours on a day they may or may not have been at their best and scored a 4 vs a 5 as indicative of anything meaningful that overrides all the other data.

Aside from contextual insight, I don’t see how AP scores add much analytically (notwithstanding Yale’s text flexible approach) All the other info matters far more.

“This student is wonderful….but they got a 4 in APUSH when they were 14 or 15 years old…if only I didn’t see that score….sigh”.

I don’t see that happening.

I can tell you why they look at it. For kids who have an A+ in AP Chemistry and then get a 2 on the AP Chem test - well, that puts the students entire transcript in doubt. So would a 3. Would a 4? Yes, imo.

Now, an A- in AP Chem and a 4 on the test makes sense. And if the kid is applying to college as a History major, who cares anyway. But if they're applying pre-med and this is a T10 school - then the college will wonder what hope this kid has in Organic Chem, where half their A/5 kids struggle.

If the kid has a 1550/35+, why introduce any of this doubt?

If you're talking about a T50 school, then sure.

My top private school kid got an A- (actually a 91.3) in AP Chem and scored a 4 on the exam. She's applying pre-med to a top 20 school, and will send her scores. She has a 35 ACT and 4.3 weighted GPA (they don't provide unweighted GPA in her school, and I don't want to calculate it right now. I have no doubt she has a very strong chance of admission to this school based on Scoir (which shows it at 40% admission rate). Not sending the score is more suspect than sending a 4. Like another poster indicated, the assumption would be that was a 3 or below.

A 40% admission rate to a t10 school?

I didn’t say t10. Read again.

you quoted and directly replied (and refuting!) a person who WAS saying talking about t10s.

we all agree - send your self-studied 4s to schools outside t20s.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the time a senior applies they will have 3 YEARS of grades and ECs, they will have test scores, letters of recommendations, and essays. Let’s say they also have UW 4.0, a rigorous course load and 1550/35+ In holistic admissions, with all that information, why on earth would an admissions committee look at how student performed on a single exam they took in a couple of hours on a day they may or may not have been at their best and scored a 4 vs a 5 as indicative of anything meaningful that overrides all the other data.

Aside from contextual insight, I don’t see how AP scores add much analytically (notwithstanding Yale’s text flexible approach) All the other info matters far more.

“This student is wonderful….but they got a 4 in APUSH when they were 14 or 15 years old…if only I didn’t see that score….sigh”.

I don’t see that happening.

I can tell you why they look at it. For kids who have an A+ in AP Chemistry and then get a 2 on the AP Chem test - well, that puts the students entire transcript in doubt. So would a 3. Would a 4? Yes, imo.

Now, an A- in AP Chem and a 4 on the test makes sense. And if the kid is applying to college as a History major, who cares anyway. But if they're applying pre-med and this is a T10 school - then the college will wonder what hope this kid has in Organic Chem, where half their A/5 kids struggle.

If the kid has a 1550/35+, why introduce any of this doubt?

If you're talking about a T50 school, then sure.

AOs have neither the time nor the inclination to look at a AP class score and compare to the AP test score. And there is no data that would suggest that getting a 4 means that someone will perform lower in Organic Chemistry. In other words no data to suggest that a 5 is any better than a 4 or a 3 frankly. That is a point you are making up. It is a test on one day. My DD had a stomach bug before the Chem AP test. She got a 5 but expected a 3 or a 4. Even for top 10 you are reading too much into the value of the scores. If there are 8 APs and there are 5 or 6 5s and the rest 4s -- submit.

I agree. If they were that concerned, any AP taken senior year would be a question mark versus a plus. They have no idea what the test scores will be. Calc BC, Chem, Physics C senior year would all be wildcards.

There are so many reasons for a poor one and done test showing for an otherwise good student, let alone a 4, when 3 is designed to be 'passing' for credit according to College Board. Many of the schools take 4s for some credit or advance placement. For those that don't, they have their entry level classes. Why even have these classes if the assumption is that all the students should test out?

These schools don't dismiss less than perceived perfection. In fact, they may even be wary of it. On so many tours, I hear about mental health and wellness services. 1580+ SAT, 10 APs all 5s, etc may actually drive a closer look to make sure they seem like balanced individual. They may even look to avoid too many with this profile when shaping a class.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the time a senior applies they will have 3 YEARS of grades and ECs, they will have test scores, letters of recommendations, and essays. Let’s say they also have UW 4.0, a rigorous course load and 1550/35+ In holistic admissions, with all that information, why on earth would an admissions committee look at how student performed on a single exam they took in a couple of hours on a day they may or may not have been at their best and scored a 4 vs a 5 as indicative of anything meaningful that overrides all the other data.

Aside from contextual insight, I don’t see how AP scores add much analytically (notwithstanding Yale’s text flexible approach) All the other info matters far more.

“This student is wonderful….but they got a 4 in APUSH when they were 14 or 15 years old…if only I didn’t see that score….sigh”.

I don’t see that happening.

I can tell you why they look at it. For kids who have an A+ in AP Chemistry and then get a 2 on the AP Chem test - well, that puts the students entire transcript in doubt. So would a 3. Would a 4? Yes, imo.

Now, an A- in AP Chem and a 4 on the test makes sense. And if the kid is applying to college as a History major, who cares anyway. But if they're applying pre-med and this is a T10 school - then the college will wonder what hope this kid has in Organic Chem, where half their A/5 kids struggle.

If the kid has a 1550/35+, why introduce any of this doubt?

If you're talking about a T50 school, then sure.

My top private school kid got an A- (actually a 91.3) in AP Chem and scored a 4 on the exam. She's applying pre-med to a top 20 school, and will send her scores. She has a 35 ACT and 4.3 weighted GPA (they don't provide unweighted GPA in her school, and I don't want to calculate it right now. I have no doubt she has a very strong chance of admission to this school based on Scoir (which shows it at 40% admission rate). Not sending the score is more suspect than sending a 4. Like another poster indicated, the assumption would be that was a 3 or below.

A 40% admission rate to a t10 school?

I didn’t say t10. Read again.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the time a senior applies they will have 3 YEARS of grades and ECs, they will have test scores, letters of recommendations, and essays. Let’s say they also have UW 4.0, a rigorous course load and 1550/35+ In holistic admissions, with all that information, why on earth would an admissions committee look at how student performed on a single exam they took in a couple of hours on a day they may or may not have been at their best and scored a 4 vs a 5 as indicative of anything meaningful that overrides all the other data.

Aside from contextual insight, I don’t see how AP scores add much analytically (notwithstanding Yale’s text flexible approach) All the other info matters far more.

“This student is wonderful….but they got a 4 in APUSH when they were 14 or 15 years old…if only I didn’t see that score….sigh”.

I don’t see that happening.

I can tell you why they look at it. For kids who have an A+ in AP Chemistry and then get a 2 on the AP Chem test - well, that puts the students entire transcript in doubt. So would a 3. Would a 4? Yes, imo.

Now, an A- in AP Chem and a 4 on the test makes sense. And if the kid is applying to college as a History major, who cares anyway. But if they're applying pre-med and this is a T10 school - then the college will wonder what hope this kid has in Organic Chem, where half their A/5 kids struggle.

If the kid has a 1550/35+, why introduce any of this doubt?

If you're talking about a T50 school, then sure.

AOs have neither the time nor the inclination to look at a AP class score and compare to the AP test score. And there is no data that would suggest that getting a 4 means that someone will perform lower in Organic Chemistry. In other words no data to suggest that a 5 is any better than a 4 or a 3 frankly. That is a point you are making up. It is a test on one day. My DD had a stomach bug before the Chem AP test. She got a 5 but expected a 3 or a 4. Even for top 10 you are reading too much into the value of the scores. If there are 8 APs and there are 5 or 6 5s and the rest 4s -- submit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the time a senior applies they will have 3 YEARS of grades and ECs, they will have test scores, letters of recommendations, and essays. Let’s say they also have UW 4.0, a rigorous course load and 1550/35+ In holistic admissions, with all that information, why on earth would an admissions committee look at how student performed on a single exam they took in a couple of hours on a day they may or may not have been at their best and scored a 4 vs a 5 as indicative of anything meaningful that overrides all the other data.

Aside from contextual insight, I don’t see how AP scores add much analytically (notwithstanding Yale’s text flexible approach) All the other info matters far more.

“This student is wonderful….but they got a 4 in APUSH when they were 14 or 15 years old…if only I didn’t see that score….sigh”.

I don’t see that happening.

I can tell you why they look at it. For kids who have an A+ in AP Chemistry and then get a 2 on the AP Chem test - well, that puts the students entire transcript in doubt. So would a 3. Would a 4? Yes, imo.

Now, an A- in AP Chem and a 4 on the test makes sense. And if the kid is applying to college as a History major, who cares anyway. But if they're applying pre-med and this is a T10 school - then the college will wonder what hope this kid has in Organic Chem, where half their A/5 kids struggle.

If the kid has a 1550/35+, why introduce any of this doubt?

If you're talking about a T50 school, then sure.

My top private school kid got an A- (actually a 91.3) in AP Chem and scored a 4 on the exam. She's applying pre-med to a top 20 school, and will send her scores. She has a 35 ACT and 4.3 weighted GPA (they don't provide unweighted GPA in her school, and I don't want to calculate it right now. I have no doubt she has a very strong chance of admission to this school based on Scoir (which shows it at 40% admission rate). Not sending the score is more suspect than sending a 4. Like another poster indicated, the assumption would be that was a 3 or below.

But what are her other scores? Sure, send the 4 when you have a string of 5s to go along with the lone 4. My kid has all 4s. It is a bit more nuanced in our situation. Send them all or send none? Our school says send them all, our private CCO says ONLY send 5s or maybe send a single 4 but only if not related to major and you have 3+ 5s to send along with the 4. At this point, not sure what to do.

I am not an AO, so take this input with that in mind. This process has become a bit of an unintended hobby because I find it rather interesting as well as wanting to help my DC navigate admissions. I have listened to many interviews with AOs and Deans and have attended many info session on campuses. The common thread with all of them is 'Holistic Admissions'. These schools take the students they want - for whatever reason and it doest boil down to test scores. They are a piece of a much bigger puzzle.

If scores were the most important factor, they would rank apps by scores and admit. All the 1600/36, all 5s first and go down the list. But they don't do that. They care about context. They care about the rigor classes. Did the student challenge themselves? Have they reflected on their lives up to this point and shown how they have grown? Are they intellectually curious? How will they make use of the resources at the college? How have they spent their time thus far and what kind of member of the school community will they be? Do they get the school and demonstrate that? Are they a fit for the school in the eyes of the committee? Do they seem to be a good person? Will they make a good roommate?

With respect to test scores, they want to know can a student handle the rigor of the school. With SAT/ACT there is added nuance in that they care about their middle 50% as these scores are reported and many prospective families read into this as a signal of school quality - plus the schools have a brand to maintain. 'Hiding' lower scores plays a tactical roll at the test optional schools. AP scores aren't reported so they have no reason to care beyond can the student handle the rigor, IMO

In your case, with all 4s, your kid did very well. Full stop. We dont know all the other data points for them, but I firmly believe that 4s will not keep them out - presuming the above questions are satisfactorily answered.

Naviance at my DCs school does not have AP scores of course, but I can look at HYPSM and see acceptances at lower test scores and GPAs than perfect (not dramatically, but notable). At one in particular, most of the acceptances are not the 'perfect' (highest GPAs/Test Score). You have to be in range, but after that, clearly the other stuff matters more.

My 1.5 cents

I'd pay 1 cent, not 1.5. You're just as clueless as anybody else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the time a senior applies they will have 3 YEARS of grades and ECs, they will have test scores, letters of recommendations, and essays. Let’s say they also have UW 4.0, a rigorous course load and 1550/35+ In holistic admissions, with all that information, why on earth would an admissions committee look at how student performed on a single exam they took in a couple of hours on a day they may or may not have been at their best and scored a 4 vs a 5 as indicative of anything meaningful that overrides all the other data.

Aside from contextual insight, I don’t see how AP scores add much analytically (notwithstanding Yale’s text flexible approach) All the other info matters far more.

“This student is wonderful….but they got a 4 in APUSH when they were 14 or 15 years old…if only I didn’t see that score….sigh”.

I don’t see that happening.

I can tell you why they look at it. For kids who have an A+ in AP Chemistry and then get a 2 on the AP Chem test - well, that puts the students entire transcript in doubt. So would a 3. Would a 4? Yes, imo.

Now, an A- in AP Chem and a 4 on the test makes sense. And if the kid is applying to college as a History major, who cares anyway. But if they're applying pre-med and this is a T10 school - then the college will wonder what hope this kid has in Organic Chem, where half their A/5 kids struggle.

If the kid has a 1550/35+, why introduce any of this doubt?

If you're talking about a T50 school, then sure.

My top private school kid got an A- (actually a 91.3) in AP Chem and scored a 4 on the exam. She's applying pre-med to a top 20 school, and will send her scores. She has a 35 ACT and 4.3 weighted GPA (they don't provide unweighted GPA in her school, and I don't want to calculate it right now. I have no doubt she has a very strong chance of admission to this school based on Scoir (which shows it at 40% admission rate). Not sending the score is more suspect than sending a 4. Like another poster indicated, the assumption would be that was a 3 or below.

But what are her other scores? Sure, send the 4 when you have a string of 5s to go along with the lone 4. My kid has all 4s. It is a bit more nuanced in our situation. Send them all or send none? Our school says send them all, our private CCO says ONLY send 5s or maybe send a single 4 but only if not related to major and you have 3+ 5s to send along with the 4. At this point, not sure what to do.

I am not an AO, so take this input with that in mind. This process has become a bit of an unintended hobby because I find it rather interesting as well as wanting to help my DC navigate admissions. I have listened to many interviews with AOs and Deans and have attended many info session on campuses. The common thread with all of them is 'Holistic Admissions'. These schools take the students they want - for whatever reason and it doest boil down to test scores. They are a piece of a much bigger puzzle.

If scores were the most important factor, they would rank apps by scores and admit. All the 1600/36, all 5s first and go down the list. But they don't do that. They care about context. They care about the rigor classes. Did the student challenge themselves? Have they reflected on their lives up to this point and shown how they have grown? Are they intellectually curious? How will they make use of the resources at the college? How have they spent their time thus far and what kind of member of the school community will they be? Do they get the school and demonstrate that? Are they a fit for the school in the eyes of the committee? Do they seem to be a good person? Will they make a good roommate?

With respect to test scores, they want to know can a student handle the rigor of the school. With SAT/ACT there is added nuance in that they care about their middle 50% as these scores are reported and many prospective families read into this as a signal of school quality - plus the schools have a brand to maintain. 'Hiding' lower scores plays a tactical roll at the test optional schools. AP scores aren't reported so they have no reason to care beyond can the student handle the rigor, IMO

In your case, with all 4s, your kid did very well. Full stop. We dont know all the other data points for them, but I firmly believe that 4s will not keep them out - presuming the above questions are satisfactorily answered.

Naviance at my DCs school does not have AP scores of course, but I can look at HYPSM and see acceptances at lower test scores and GPAs than perfect (not dramatically, but notable). At one in particular, most of the acceptances are not the 'perfect' (highest GPAs/Test Score). You have to be in range, but after that, clearly the other stuff matters more.

My 1.5 cents

I'd pay 1 cent, not 1.5. You're just as clueless as anybody else.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the time a senior applies they will have 3 YEARS of grades and ECs, they will have test scores, letters of recommendations, and essays. Let’s say they also have UW 4.0, a rigorous course load and 1550/35+ In holistic admissions, with all that information, why on earth would an admissions committee look at how student performed on a single exam they took in a couple of hours on a day they may or may not have been at their best and scored a 4 vs a 5 as indicative of anything meaningful that overrides all the other data.

Aside from contextual insight, I don’t see how AP scores add much analytically (notwithstanding Yale’s text flexible approach) All the other info matters far more.

“This student is wonderful….but they got a 4 in APUSH when they were 14 or 15 years old…if only I didn’t see that score….sigh”.

I don’t see that happening.

I can tell you why they look at it. For kids who have an A+ in AP Chemistry and then get a 2 on the AP Chem test - well, that puts the students entire transcript in doubt. So would a 3. Would a 4? Yes, imo.

Now, an A- in AP Chem and a 4 on the test makes sense. And if the kid is applying to college as a History major, who cares anyway. But if they're applying pre-med and this is a T10 school - then the college will wonder what hope this kid has in Organic Chem, where half their A/5 kids struggle.

If the kid has a 1550/35+, why introduce any of this doubt?

If you're talking about a T50 school, then sure.

AOs have neither the time nor the inclination to look at a AP class score and compare to the AP test score. And there is no data that would suggest that getting a 4 means that someone will perform lower in Organic Chemistry. In other words no data to suggest that a 5 is any better than a 4 or a 3 frankly. That is a point you are making up. It is a test on one day. My DD had a stomach bug before the Chem AP test. She got a 5 but expected a 3 or a 4. Even for top 10 you are reading too much into the value of the scores. If there are 8 APs and there are 5 or 6 5s and the rest 4s -- submit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the time a senior applies they will have 3 YEARS of grades and ECs, they will have test scores, letters of recommendations, and essays. Let’s say they also have UW 4.0, a rigorous course load and 1550/35+ In holistic admissions, with all that information, why on earth would an admissions committee look at how student performed on a single exam they took in a couple of hours on a day they may or may not have been at their best and scored a 4 vs a 5 as indicative of anything meaningful that overrides all the other data.

Aside from contextual insight, I don’t see how AP scores add much analytically (notwithstanding Yale’s text flexible approach) All the other info matters far more.

“This student is wonderful….but they got a 4 in APUSH when they were 14 or 15 years old…if only I didn’t see that score….sigh”.

I don’t see that happening.

I can tell you why they look at it. For kids who have an A+ in AP Chemistry and then get a 2 on the AP Chem test - well, that puts the students entire transcript in doubt. So would a 3. Would a 4? Yes, imo.

Now, an A- in AP Chem and a 4 on the test makes sense. And if the kid is applying to college as a History major, who cares anyway. But if they're applying pre-med and this is a T10 school - then the college will wonder what hope this kid has in Organic Chem, where half their A/5 kids struggle.

If the kid has a 1550/35+, why introduce any of this doubt?

If you're talking about a T50 school, then sure.

My top private school kid got an A- (actually a 91.3) in AP Chem and scored a 4 on the exam. She's applying pre-med to a top 20 school, and will send her scores. She has a 35 ACT and 4.3 weighted GPA (they don't provide unweighted GPA in her school, and I don't want to calculate it right now. I have no doubt she has a very strong chance of admission to this school based on Scoir (which shows it at 40% admission rate). Not sending the score is more suspect than sending a 4. Like another poster indicated, the assumption would be that was a 3 or below.

But what are her other scores? Sure, send the 4 when you have a string of 5s to go along with the lone 4. My kid has all 4s. It is a bit more nuanced in our situation. Send them all or send none? Our school says send them all, our private CCO says ONLY send 5s or maybe send a single 4 but only if not related to major and you have 3+ 5s to send along with the 4. At this point, not sure what to do.

I am not an AO, so take this input with that in mind. This process has become a bit of an unintended hobby because I find it rather interesting as well as wanting to help my DC navigate admissions. I have listened to many interviews with AOs and Deans and have attended many info session on campuses. The common thread with all of them is 'Holistic Admissions'. These schools take the students they want - for whatever reason and it doest boil down to test scores. They are a piece of a much bigger puzzle.

If scores were the most important factor, they would rank apps by scores and admit. All the 1600/36, all 5s first and go down the list. But they don't do that. They care about context. They care about the rigor classes. Did the student challenge themselves? Have they reflected on their lives up to this point and shown how they have grown? Are they intellectually curious? How will they make use of the resources at the college? How have they spent their time thus far and what kind of member of the school community will they be? Do they get the school and demonstrate that? Are they a fit for the school in the eyes of the committee? Do they seem to be a good person? Will they make a good roommate?

With respect to test scores, they want to know can a student handle the rigor of the school. With SAT/ACT there is added nuance in that they care about their middle 50% as these scores are reported and many prospective families read into this as a signal of school quality - plus the schools have a brand to maintain. 'Hiding' lower scores plays a tactical roll at the test optional schools. AP scores aren't reported so they have no reason to care beyond can the student handle the rigor, IMO

In your case, with all 4s, your kid did very well. Full stop. We dont know all the other data points for them, but I firmly believe that 4s will not keep them out - presuming the above questions are satisfactorily answered.

Naviance at my DCs school does not have AP scores of course, but I can look at HYPSM and see acceptances at lower test scores and GPAs than perfect (not dramatically, but notable). At one in particular, most of the acceptances are not the 'perfect' (highest GPAs/Test Score). You have to be in range, but after that, clearly the other stuff matters more.

My 1.5 cents

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the time a senior applies they will have 3 YEARS of grades and ECs, they will have test scores, letters of recommendations, and essays. Let’s say they also have UW 4.0, a rigorous course load and 1550/35+ In holistic admissions, with all that information, why on earth would an admissions committee look at how student performed on a single exam they took in a couple of hours on a day they may or may not have been at their best and scored a 4 vs a 5 as indicative of anything meaningful that overrides all the other data.

Aside from contextual insight, I don’t see how AP scores add much analytically (notwithstanding Yale’s text flexible approach) All the other info matters far more.

“This student is wonderful….but they got a 4 in APUSH when they were 14 or 15 years old…if only I didn’t see that score….sigh”.

I don’t see that happening.

I can tell you why they look at it. For kids who have an A+ in AP Chemistry and then get a 2 on the AP Chem test - well, that puts the students entire transcript in doubt. So would a 3. Would a 4? Yes, imo.

Now, an A- in AP Chem and a 4 on the test makes sense. And if the kid is applying to college as a History major, who cares anyway. But if they're applying pre-med and this is a T10 school - then the college will wonder what hope this kid has in Organic Chem, where half their A/5 kids struggle.

If the kid has a 1550/35+, why introduce any of this doubt?

If you're talking about a T50 school, then sure.

My top private school kid got an A- (actually a 91.3) in AP Chem and scored a 4 on the exam. She's applying pre-med to a top 20 school, and will send her scores. She has a 35 ACT and 4.3 weighted GPA (they don't provide unweighted GPA in her school, and I don't want to calculate it right now. I have no doubt she has a very strong chance of admission to this school based on Scoir (which shows it at 40% admission rate). Not sending the score is more suspect than sending a 4. Like another poster indicated, the assumption would be that was a 3 or below.

A 40% admission rate to a t10 school?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the time a senior applies they will have 3 YEARS of grades and ECs, they will have test scores, letters of recommendations, and essays. Let’s say they also have UW 4.0, a rigorous course load and 1550/35+ In holistic admissions, with all that information, why on earth would an admissions committee look at how student performed on a single exam they took in a couple of hours on a day they may or may not have been at their best and scored a 4 vs a 5 as indicative of anything meaningful that overrides all the other data.

Aside from contextual insight, I don’t see how AP scores add much analytically (notwithstanding Yale’s text flexible approach) All the other info matters far more.

“This student is wonderful….but they got a 4 in APUSH when they were 14 or 15 years old…if only I didn’t see that score….sigh”.

I don’t see that happening.

I can tell you why they look at it. For kids who have an A+ in AP Chemistry and then get a 2 on the AP Chem test - well, that puts the students entire transcript in doubt. So would a 3. Would a 4? Yes, imo.

Now, an A- in AP Chem and a 4 on the test makes sense. And if the kid is applying to college as a History major, who cares anyway. But if they're applying pre-med and this is a T10 school - then the college will wonder what hope this kid has in Organic Chem, where half their A/5 kids struggle.

If the kid has a 1550/35+, why introduce any of this doubt?

If you're talking about a T50 school, then sure.

My top private school kid got an A- (actually a 91.3) in AP Chem and scored a 4 on the exam. She's applying pre-med to a top 20 school, and will send her scores. She has a 35 ACT and 4.3 weighted GPA (they don't provide unweighted GPA in her school, and I don't want to calculate it right now. I have no doubt she has a very strong chance of admission to this school based on Scoir (which shows it at 40% admission rate). Not sending the score is more suspect than sending a 4. Like another poster indicated, the assumption would be that was a 3 or below.

But what are her other scores? Sure, send the 4 when you have a string of 5s to go along with the lone 4. My kid has all 4s. It is a bit more nuanced in our situation. Send them all or send none? Our school says send them all, our private CCO says ONLY send 5s or maybe send a single 4 but only if not related to major and you have 3+ 5s to send along with the 4. At this point, not sure what to do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the time a senior applies they will have 3 YEARS of grades and ECs, they will have test scores, letters of recommendations, and essays. Let’s say they also have UW 4.0, a rigorous course load and 1550/35+ In holistic admissions, with all that information, why on earth would an admissions committee look at how student performed on a single exam they took in a couple of hours on a day they may or may not have been at their best and scored a 4 vs a 5 as indicative of anything meaningful that overrides all the other data.

Aside from contextual insight, I don’t see how AP scores add much analytically (notwithstanding Yale’s text flexible approach) All the other info matters far more.

“This student is wonderful….but they got a 4 in APUSH when they were 14 or 15 years old…if only I didn’t see that score….sigh”.

I don’t see that happening.

I can tell you why they look at it. For kids who have an A+ in AP Chemistry and then get a 2 on the AP Chem test - well, that puts the students entire transcript in doubt. So would a 3. Would a 4? Yes, imo.

Now, an A- in AP Chem and a 4 on the test makes sense. And if the kid is applying to college as a History major, who cares anyway. But if they're applying pre-med and this is a T10 school - then the college will wonder what hope this kid has in Organic Chem, where half their A/5 kids struggle.

If the kid has a 1550/35+, why introduce any of this doubt?

If you're talking about a T50 school, then sure.

AOs have neither the time nor the inclination to look at a AP class score and compare to the AP test score. And there is no data that would suggest that getting a 4 means that someone will perform lower in Organic Chemistry. In other words no data to suggest that a 5 is any better than a 4 or a 3 frankly. That is a point you are making up. It is a test on one day. My DD had a stomach bug before the Chem AP test. She got a 5 but expected a 3 or a 4. Even for top 10 you are reading too much into the value of the scores. If there are 8 APs and there are 5 or 6 5s and the rest 4s -- submit.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the time a senior applies they will have 3 YEARS of grades and ECs, they will have test scores, letters of recommendations, and essays. Let’s say they also have UW 4.0, a rigorous course load and 1550/35+ In holistic admissions, with all that information, why on earth would an admissions committee look at how student performed on a single exam they took in a couple of hours on a day they may or may not have been at their best and scored a 4 vs a 5 as indicative of anything meaningful that overrides all the other data.

Aside from contextual insight, I don’t see how AP scores add much analytically (notwithstanding Yale’s text flexible approach) All the other info matters far more.

“This student is wonderful….but they got a 4 in APUSH when they were 14 or 15 years old…if only I didn’t see that score….sigh”.

I don’t see that happening.

I can tell you why they look at it. For kids who have an A+ in AP Chemistry and then get a 2 on the AP Chem test - well, that puts the students entire transcript in doubt. So would a 3. Would a 4? Yes, imo.

Now, an A- in AP Chem and a 4 on the test makes sense. And if the kid is applying to college as a History major, who cares anyway. But if they're applying pre-med and this is a T10 school - then the college will wonder what hope this kid has in Organic Chem, where half their A/5 kids struggle.

If the kid has a 1550/35+, why introduce any of this doubt?

If you're talking about a T50 school, then sure.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the time a senior applies they will have 3 YEARS of grades and ECs, they will have test scores, letters of recommendations, and essays. Let’s say they also have UW 4.0, a rigorous course load and 1550/35+ In holistic admissions, with all that information, why on earth would an admissions committee look at how student performed on a single exam they took in a couple of hours on a day they may or may not have been at their best and scored a 4 vs a 5 as indicative of anything meaningful that overrides all the other data.

Aside from contextual insight, I don’t see how AP scores add much analytically (notwithstanding Yale’s text flexible approach) All the other info matters far more.

“This student is wonderful….but they got a 4 in APUSH when they were 14 or 15 years old…if only I didn’t see that score….sigh”.

I don’t see that happening.

I can tell you why they look at it. For kids who have an A+ in AP Chemistry and then get a 2 on the AP Chem test - well, that puts the students entire transcript in doubt. So would a 3. Would a 4? Yes, imo.

Now, an A- in AP Chem and a 4 on the test makes sense. And if the kid is applying to college as a History major, who cares anyway. But if they're applying pre-med and this is a T10 school - then the college will wonder what hope this kid has in Organic Chem, where half their A/5 kids struggle.

If the kid has a 1550/35+, why introduce any of this doubt?

If you're talking about a T50 school, then sure.

My top private school kid got an A- (actually a 91.3) in AP Chem and scored a 4 on the exam. She's applying pre-med to a top 20 school, and will send her scores. She has a 35 ACT and 4.3 weighted GPA (they don't provide unweighted GPA in her school, and I don't want to calculate it right now. I have no doubt she has a very strong chance of admission to this school based on Scoir (which shows it at 40% admission rate). Not sending the score is more suspect than sending a 4. Like another poster indicated, the assumption would be that was a 3 or below.

But what are her other scores? Sure, send the 4 when you have a string of 5s to go along with the lone 4. My kid has all 4s. It is a bit more nuanced in our situation. Send them all or send none? Our school says send them all, our private CCO says ONLY send 5s or maybe send a single 4 but only if not related to major and you have 3+ 5s to send along with the 4. At this point, not sure what to do.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:At the time a senior applies they will have 3 YEARS of grades and ECs, they will have test scores, letters of recommendations, and essays. Let’s say they also have UW 4.0, a rigorous course load and 1550/35+ In holistic admissions, with all that information, why on earth would an admissions committee look at how student performed on a single exam they took in a couple of hours on a day they may or may not have been at their best and scored a 4 vs a 5 as indicative of anything meaningful that overrides all the other data.

Aside from contextual insight, I don’t see how AP scores add much analytically (notwithstanding Yale’s text flexible approach) All the other info matters far more.

“This student is wonderful….but they got a 4 in APUSH when they were 14 or 15 years old…if only I didn’t see that score….sigh”.

I don’t see that happening.

I can tell you why they look at it. For kids who have an A+ in AP Chemistry and then get a 2 on the AP Chem test - well, that puts the students entire transcript in doubt. So would a 3. Would a 4? Yes, imo.

Now, an A- in AP Chem and a 4 on the test makes sense. And if the kid is applying to college as a History major, who cares anyway. But if they're applying pre-med and this is a T10 school - then the college will wonder what hope this kid has in Organic Chem, where half their A/5 kids struggle.

If the kid has a 1550/35+, why introduce any of this doubt?

If you're talking about a T50 school, then sure.

My top private school kid got an A- (actually a 91.3) in AP Chem and scored a 4 on the exam. She's applying pre-med to a top 20 school, and will send her scores. She has a 35 ACT and 4.3 weighted GPA (they don't provide unweighted GPA in her school, and I don't want to calculate it right now. I have no doubt she has a very strong chance of admission to this school based on Scoir (which shows it at 40% admission rate). Not sending the score is more suspect than sending a 4. Like another poster indicated, the assumption would be that was a 3 or below.