So the teams division is only dictated by its top swimmers?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:MCSL Divisionals is the last team meet of the season, in effect a mega-A meet where points count big time in the final division standings, and also where kids can post one last all-star time before the individual all-stat meet is seeded. This is very different from NVSL.

Divisionals is the last chance for a team to get promoted out of its division or avoid relegation to a lower division. And yes, this matters to many swimmers and their parents.

DP - I thought MCSL assigned Divisions for next year based on some kind of elaborate simulation of all teams competing against each other. It’s not based on points during the season - we were undefeated last year, won relay carnival AND Divisionals and stayed in the same Division.

Anonymous wrote:MCSL Divisionals is the last team meet of the season, in effect a mega-A meet where points count big time in the final division standings, and also where kids can post one last all-star time before the individual all-stat meet is seeded. This is very different from NVSL.

Divisionals is the last chance for a team to get promoted out of its division or avoid relegation to a lower division. And yes, this matters to many swimmers and their parents.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really hope our coaches make the lineup in a way that maximizes the number of kids who can swim. I have one kid who could swim any event at divisionals based on their ladder spots and one who is just outside the top spots. I am fine with my one kid not necessarily swimming one of their best or favorite events if it gives someone else a chance. For example, putting them in fly or breast instead of free. Likewise it would be nice if the top kids in my other child’s age group, who are in all star range for 3-4 events, swam a possibly less preferred stroke in order to allow my kid to have a spot in one event.

The same number of kids get to swim whichever events the faster kids pick, it just isn’t the same kids. The same number of total kids get a chance to swim.

Not true at least on our team. You do need a minimum number of kids to fill out the lineup, but we often have the top swimmers swimming the max number of events at divisionals along with a couple of others who get to swim just one or two events. So it can range anywhere from 6 to 9 kids in an age group for example.

Anonymous wrote:I really hope our coaches make the lineup in a way that maximizes the number of kids who can swim. I have one kid who could swim any event at divisionals based on their ladder spots and one who is just outside the top spots. I am fine with my one kid not necessarily swimming one of their best or favorite events if it gives someone else a chance. For example, putting them in fly or breast instead of free. Likewise it would be nice if the top kids in my other child’s age group, who are in all star range for 3-4 events, swam a possibly less preferred stroke in order to allow my kid to have a spot in one event.

The same number of kids get to swim whichever events the faster kids pick, it just isn’t the same kids. The same number of total kids get a chance to swim.

MCSL Divisionals is the last team meet of the season, in effect a mega-A meet where points count big time in the final division standings, and also where kids can post one last all-star time before the individual all-stat meet is seeded. This is very different from NVSL.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really hope our coaches make the lineup in a way that maximizes the number of kids who can swim. I have one kid who could swim any event at divisionals based on their ladder spots and one who is just outside the top spots. I am fine with my one kid not necessarily swimming one of their best or favorite events if it gives someone else a chance. For example, putting them in fly or breast instead of free. Likewise it would be nice if the top kids in my other child’s age group, who are in all star range for 3-4 events, swam a possibly less preferred stroke in order to allow my kid to have a spot in one event.

I get where you are coming from but it is not fair for the coaches to do this and is a disadvantage to those top kids who have earned their ability to pick what they swim.

In our league kids can swim more than two events and our team asks kids to rank their favorites. I don’t think too many kids have a strong preference between their third and fourth favorite, for example. Swimming the fourth favorite instead of third favorite (while still swimming first and second favorite) when the kid can make all stars in all four is often not a huge deal to those kids. But it can give a different kid a chance to be included. I realize this is lost on the people who couldn’t care less about maximizing inclusion in summer swim.

Not sure this is an apples-to-apples comparison. For NVSL, a swimmer is limited to 2 events max. The inclusion part is where B-meets come in.

I totally get that on NVSL it’s different because kids are only getting to pick two to begin with. I am referring to a situation where top kids are literally all star caliber in every event and can swim 3 or 4 events.

I also get that B meets are more about inclusion but for some teams their last B meets was cancelled which means kids missed out an their last opportunity to have a swim that could have locked them into a divisionals spot. It really stinks for some kids who were so close to have their season come to such an abrupt end. Hence the thought that maybe a kid who excels in everything swims their fourth favorite instead of third favorite to give a teammate the chance to swim one last meet.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really hope our coaches make the lineup in a way that maximizes the number of kids who can swim. I have one kid who could swim any event at divisionals based on their ladder spots and one who is just outside the top spots. I am fine with my one kid not necessarily swimming one of their best or favorite events if it gives someone else a chance. For example, putting them in fly or breast instead of free. Likewise it would be nice if the top kids in my other child’s age group, who are in all star range for 3-4 events, swam a possibly less preferred stroke in order to allow my kid to have a spot in one event.

I get where you are coming from but it is not fair for the coaches to do this and is a disadvantage to those top kids who have earned their ability to pick what they swim.

This is NOT the way it should be done nor is it what Divisionals is about.

Then what is divisionals about? Please enlighten me?

Divisionals is an individual competition both to try for a spot in all stars, but also to see where you land in your division. Why shouldn't a kid who has earned top times get to pick what they want to swim regardless of how it will impact others?

Now our coaches will sometimes entourage kids to swim something that isn't their favorite- ours did this last year because they knew a kid had a better chance of making IAS in one stroke over another. Or if all the kids in an weak age group will place low no matter what they swim they will have the kid legal in fly swim that over say free so another kid can swim and we don't don't lose a spot to another team due to an empty lane.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really hope our coaches make the lineup in a way that maximizes the number of kids who can swim. I have one kid who could swim any event at divisionals based on their ladder spots and one who is just outside the top spots. I am fine with my one kid not necessarily swimming one of their best or favorite events if it gives someone else a chance. For example, putting them in fly or breast instead of free. Likewise it would be nice if the top kids in my other child’s age group, who are in all star range for 3-4 events, swam a possibly less preferred stroke in order to allow my kid to have a spot in one event.

I get where you are coming from but it is not fair for the coaches to do this and is a disadvantage to those top kids who have earned their ability to pick what they swim.

In our league kids can swim more than two events and our team asks kids to rank their favorites. I don’t think too many kids have a strong preference between their third and fourth favorite, for example. Swimming the fourth favorite instead of third favorite (while still swimming first and second favorite) when the kid can make all stars in all four is often not a huge deal to those kids. But it can give a different kid a chance to be included. I realize this is lost on the people who couldn’t care less about maximizing inclusion in summer swim.

Not sure this is an apples-to-apples comparison. For NVSL, a swimmer is limited to 2 events max. The inclusion part is where B-meets come in.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really hope our coaches make the lineup in a way that maximizes the number of kids who can swim. I have one kid who could swim any event at divisionals based on their ladder spots and one who is just outside the top spots. I am fine with my one kid not necessarily swimming one of their best or favorite events if it gives someone else a chance. For example, putting them in fly or breast instead of free. Likewise it would be nice if the top kids in my other child’s age group, who are in all star range for 3-4 events, swam a possibly less preferred stroke in order to allow my kid to have a spot in one event.

I get where you are coming from but it is not fair for the coaches to do this and is a disadvantage to those top kids who have earned their ability to pick what they swim.

In our league kids can swim more than two events and our team asks kids to rank their favorites. I don’t think too many kids have a strong preference between their third and fourth favorite, for example. Swimming the fourth favorite instead of third favorite (while still swimming first and second favorite) when the kid can make all stars in all four is often not a huge deal to those kids. But it can give a different kid a chance to be included. I realize this is lost on the people who couldn’t care less about maximizing inclusion in summer swim.

Anonymous wrote:As usual I find it fascinating to read about how other leagues work (seems this thread is primarily NVSL, but also reading about MCSL on other threads).

I love how "chill" PMSL is comparatively! Even in division A.

Our coaches do all the Divisional selections. There is no kid choice at all.

But I have never heard of a kid opting out of Divisionals even if they knew they wouldn't go to All-Stars. For PMSL (maybe this is different for other leagues?), Divisionals IS a team event and there's a healthy (maybe not always healthy) competition to see if you can beat teams at Divisionals that you may have lost to in a dual meet.

If it’s a team event it’s not comparable to NVSL where it’s an individual event.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really hope our coaches make the lineup in a way that maximizes the number of kids who can swim. I have one kid who could swim any event at divisionals based on their ladder spots and one who is just outside the top spots. I am fine with my one kid not necessarily swimming one of their best or favorite events if it gives someone else a chance. For example, putting them in fly or breast instead of free. Likewise it would be nice if the top kids in my other child’s age group, who are in all star range for 3-4 events, swam a possibly less preferred stroke in order to allow my kid to have a spot in one event.

I get where you are coming from but it is not fair for the coaches to do this and is a disadvantage to those top kids who have earned their ability to pick what they swim.

This is NOT the way it should be done nor is it what Divisionals is about.

Anonymous wrote:I really hope our coaches make the lineup in a way that maximizes the number of kids who can swim. I have one kid who could swim any event at divisionals based on their ladder spots and one who is just outside the top spots. I am fine with my one kid not necessarily swimming one of their best or favorite events if it gives someone else a chance. For example, putting them in fly or breast instead of free. Likewise it would be nice if the top kids in my other child’s age group, who are in all star range for 3-4 events, swam a possibly less preferred stroke in order to allow my kid to have a spot in one event.

I get where you are coming from but it is not fair for the coaches to do this and is a disadvantage to those top kids who have earned their ability to pick what they swim.

Anonymous wrote:I really hope our coaches make the lineup in a way that maximizes the number of kids who can swim. I have one kid who could swim any event at divisionals based on their ladder spots and one who is just outside the top spots. I am fine with my one kid not necessarily swimming one of their best or favorite events if it gives someone else a chance. For example, putting them in fly or breast instead of free. Likewise it would be nice if the top kids in my other child’s age group, who are in all star range for 3-4 events, swam a possibly less preferred stroke in order to allow my kid to have a spot in one event.

Wtf.

I really hope our coaches make the lineup in a way that maximizes the number of kids who can swim. I have one kid who could swim any event at divisionals based on their ladder spots and one who is just outside the top spots. I am fine with my one kid not necessarily swimming one of their best or favorite events if it gives someone else a chance. For example, putting them in fly or breast instead of free. Likewise it would be nice if the top kids in my other child’s age group, who are in all star range for 3-4 events, swam a possibly less preferred stroke in order to allow my kid to have a spot in one event.