Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wear a f^cking uniform already. If the work being done is honorable, don’t hide behind the argument that those being arrested / detained MAY resist. Wearing street clothes certainly doesn’t reduce the risk of that anyway … in fact, it does just the opposite.

FFS, I’m a fifth generation natural born citizen of Western European heritage and I've resorted to carrying my passport on a daily basis now, too. This has gotten goddamned ridiculous, and everyone knows it.

Most federal LE agencies are plainclothes. This isn’t unique to ICE and it isn’t new.

Yeah, you’re right. ALSO a problem. Let’s fix it.

I don’t agree that’s a problem. I don’t think the FBI agents arresting J6 insurrections or the DUSM tracking down a contract killer should have to plaster their last name on their chest. We can have accountability without opening up law enforcement and their families to violence.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wear a f^cking uniform already. If the work being done is honorable, don’t hide behind the argument that those being arrested / detained MAY resist. Wearing street clothes certainly doesn’t reduce the risk of that anyway … in fact, it does just the opposite.

FFS, I’m a fifth generation natural born citizen of Western European heritage and I've resorted to carrying my passport on a daily basis now, too. This has gotten goddamned ridiculous, and everyone knows it.

Most federal LE agencies are plainclothes. This isn’t unique to ICE and it isn’t new.

Yeah, you’re right. ALSO a problem. Let’s fix it.

I don’t agree that’s a problem. I don’t think the FBI agents arresting J6 insurrections or the DUSM tracking down a contract killer should have to plaster their last name on their chest. We can have accountability without opening up law enforcement and their families to violence.

Allowing law enforcement to conceal their identity is a surefire path to corruption and misconduct.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wear a f^cking uniform already. If the work being done is honorable, don’t hide behind the argument that those being arrested / detained MAY resist. Wearing street clothes certainly doesn’t reduce the risk of that anyway … in fact, it does just the opposite.

FFS, I’m a fifth generation natural born citizen of Western European heritage and I've resorted to carrying my passport on a daily basis now, too. This has gotten goddamned ridiculous, and everyone knows it.

Most federal LE agencies are plainclothes. This isn’t unique to ICE and it isn’t new.

Yeah, you’re right. ALSO a problem. Let’s fix it.

I don’t agree that’s a problem. I don’t think the FBI agents arresting J6 insurrections or the DUSM tracking down a contract killer should have to plaster their last name on their chest. We can have accountability without opening up law enforcement and their families to violence.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we are so proud of rounding up bad guys, why the cloak and dagger with masks and no badges? Why are we showing up to LEGAL court hearing snatching people. Why should anyone go with a masked man with NO identification?

They do have badges. You keep saying that and no one can identify a single case where someone was arrested by an officer without a badge.

But they don't always display them continuously. They should hang them around their neck on a lanyard or pin them on their chests or something. Even the sheriffs in the Old West did that.

Saying they should display their badges continuously is very different than claiming they don’t have badges at all.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wear a f^cking uniform already. If the work being done is honorable, don’t hide behind the argument that those being arrested / detained MAY resist. Wearing street clothes certainly doesn’t reduce the risk of that anyway … in fact, it does just the opposite.

FFS, I’m a fifth generation natural born citizen of Western European heritage and I've resorted to carrying my passport on a daily basis now, too. This has gotten goddamned ridiculous, and everyone knows it.

Most federal LE agencies are plainclothes. This isn’t unique to ICE and it isn’t new.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wear a f^cking uniform already. If the work being done is honorable, don’t hide behind the argument that those being arrested / detained MAY resist. Wearing street clothes certainly doesn’t reduce the risk of that anyway … in fact, it does just the opposite.

FFS, I’m a fifth generation natural born citizen of Western European heritage and I've resorted to carrying my passport on a daily basis now, too. This has gotten goddamned ridiculous, and everyone knows it.

Most federal LE agencies are plainclothes. This isn’t unique to ICE and it isn’t new.

Yeah, you’re right. ALSO a problem. Let’s fix it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP. I'm responding to the following assertion you made: "First, there is no video I’ve seen circulated on social media or by the news media that supports the assertion that agents aren’t identifying themselves to the target of their enforcement action."

This is false. One of the first and better know videos capturing an ICE arrest clearly shows that ICE officers (or whoever they are) did most certainly not identify themselves. It's the case of the Turkish grad student, Rumeysa Ozturk, who was snatched off the streets of a Boston suburb.

Here is the video (embedded in the story): https://www.cnn.com/2025/03/26/us/video/tufts-student-detained-rumeysa-ozturk-ice-digvid

And here is text from a news story (one of several) pointing out that the agents did not identify themselves: "In the widely seen video, masked ICE agents, refusing to identify themselves, arrested Ozturk on the street in Somerville, Mass."
https://thehill.com/opinion/judiciary/5258058-how-ice-is-gaming-the-system-to-keep-rumeysa-ozturk-in-prison/

Have you watched the video? The masked individuals did not identify themselves. At one point the poor woman is so confused as to who the SIX masked people in plainclothes are who are swarming around her that she mentions summoning the police, and one person says, "We ARE the police." [The Somerville police subsequently released a statement saying that their officers were not involved. Not sure what "police" the masked person was referring to since they weren't police.

Watch the CNN video more closely. At the 12 second mark the 2nd ICE ERO police officer that circles behind the target pulls his badge on a chain out from his sweatshirt. That’s what undercover officers do. At the 19 second mark the female ERO officer with her badge clearly hanging around her neck enters the frame from the right.

That’s identifying themselves. You will find ERO identifying themselves in every video. You are letting your emotions suppress your ability to process the details within the videos.

NP - If for example you havent pulled out and shown the individual the badge that was concealed under your sweatshirt, and not just a cursory flash, until AFTER you are physically restraining them then in my opinion you have absolutely no legitimate claim as an LEO to make about "resisting arrest" or that you were assaulted by the individual because up until that moment they fully have a legitimate presumption that they are being abducted by some unknown person and as such have every right to try and flee or fight. This kind of thing really needs to be made clear to law enforcement.

Law enforcement knows this. It is always a defense to a charge of resisting arrest that the defendant had a good faith and reasonable belief that the person they resisted was not a LEO.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ ICE fanboy, please explain how the most prominent case of these psycho abductions (without following the law and identifying the themselves) escaped your keen eye!

See above. My keen eye catches the details.

Oh, a split second glance is sufficient?

Whatever.

Keep defending the shit we supposedly spent decades fighting against. Fascism is fascism.

You can pretty clearly see in the footage that once the officers pull the badges out of their clothing, they leave them visibly on their chest.

DP. At around 31 seconds in, a male and then a female say, "We're the police." What do you make of that? Do ICE agents usually go around saying, "We're the police" or are they required to say, "We're ICE agents," or "We're with Immigration and Customs Enforcement" or the like? Can any LEO say "I/we're the police" if they're not actually police but a different type of LEO? Because the student was clearly scared and confused as to who they were--i.e., it wasn't immediately apparent to her that they were LEOs. Flashing a badge without saying who you are with and why you are detaining someone does not seem to be enough, especially to someone from another country.

That seems fine to me. If you’re dealing with someone who isn’t from this country and may not speak great english, it seems much clearer to initially say “police” rather than “immigration and customs enforcement.”

I’m not sure what you mean by law enforcement officers who aren’t police. Federal agents are still police officers.

Well, it doesn't seem fine to me and many others who were outraged by the video. Even the neighbor who shot the video is heard to say something like, "How do we know you're the police." To most people in the US and other countries (I have lived and travelled in many and speak four languages), when someone says the word "police," most people take it to mean local police, not special law enforcement agents of some kind. Local police wear a uniform and are easily identified in every country. Most people see them as someone to call upon for assistance if they fear for their safety--in other words, they see them as a source of protection. The student was clearly afraid of the six individuals who accosted her, not reassured by their presence. She also had no clue why they were taking her since she had not done anything wrong. It's not like she just left a store where she had shoplifted some items.

I think we're at a point in this country with Stephen Miller's directive for 3,000 ICE arrests a day and given the high visibility of these actions via social media posts that there should be a clear protocol followed by all ICE officers and those deputized to serve as ICE officers about how to conduct ICE arrests in a way that makes it immediately clear who they are and what they're doing.

Can you explain this a little more? I’m not sure how identifying themselves as ICE first would be any better. In at least some cases, the arrestee isn’t going to know what that means. If the arrestee does understand what Immigration and Customs Enforcement is, why would they be any less scared than if the officer simply identified themself as a police officer? Is the concern that because they’re in plain clothes but identify themselves as police, arrestees won’t believe them?

Yes, the plain clothes + the masks are a concern. In most countries, regular police wear a uniform and don't wear masks.

And regarding what word to use, immediately saying "immigration" or "la migra" if it's a Latino they're dealing with would be helpful because it provides context and helps orient the person being detained to the nature of the interaction--that it's about an immigration matter and not, say, shoplifting.

The other big issue is that there has been a recent huge increase in the number of incidents involving people falsely impersonating ICE, whether to rob, terrorize or otherwise take advantage of people who they think are immigrants.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ ICE fanboy, please explain how the most prominent case of these psycho abductions (without following the law and identifying the themselves) escaped your keen eye!

See above. My keen eye catches the details.

Oh, a split second glance is sufficient?

Whatever.

Keep defending the shit we supposedly spent decades fighting against. Fascism is fascism.

You can pretty clearly see in the footage that once the officers pull the badges out of their clothing, they leave them visibly on their chest.

DP. At around 31 seconds in, a male and then a female say, "We're the police." What do you make of that? Do ICE agents usually go around saying, "We're the police" or are they required to say, "We're ICE agents," or "We're with Immigration and Customs Enforcement" or the like? Can any LEO say "I/we're the police" if they're not actually police but a different type of LEO? Because the student was clearly scared and confused as to who they were--i.e., it wasn't immediately apparent to her that they were LEOs. Flashing a badge without saying who you are with and why you are detaining someone does not seem to be enough, especially to someone from another country.

That seems fine to me. If you’re dealing with someone who isn’t from this country and may not speak great english, it seems much clearer to initially say “police” rather than “immigration and customs enforcement.”

I’m not sure what you mean by law enforcement officers who aren’t police. Federal agents are still police officers.

Well, it doesn't seem fine to me and many others who were outraged by the video. Even the neighbor who shot the video is heard to say something like, "How do we know you're the police." To most people in the US and other countries (I have lived and travelled in many and speak four languages), when someone says the word "police," most people take it to mean local police, not special law enforcement agents of some kind. Local police wear a uniform and are easily identified in every country. Most people see them as someone to call upon for assistance if they fear for their safety--in other words, they see them as a source of protection. The student was clearly afraid of the six individuals who accosted her, not reassured by their presence. She also had no clue why they were taking her since she had not done anything wrong. It's not like she just left a store where she had shoplifted some items.

I think we're at a point in this country with Stephen Miller's directive for 3,000 ICE arrests a day and given the high visibility of these actions via social media posts that there should be a clear protocol followed by all ICE officers and those deputized to serve as ICE officers about how to conduct ICE arrests in a way that makes it immediately clear who they are and what they're doing.

Can you explain this a little more? I’m not sure how identifying themselves as ICE first would be any better. In at least some cases, the arrestee isn’t going to know what that means. If the arrestee does understand what Immigration and Customs Enforcement is, why would they be any less scared than if the officer simply identified themself as a police officer? Is the concern that because they’re in plain clothes but identify themselves as police, arrestees won’t believe them?

Yes, the plain clothes + the masks are a concern. In most countries, regular police wear a uniform and don't wear masks.

And regarding what word to use, immediately saying "immigration" or "la migra" if it's a Latino they're dealing with would be helpful because it provides context and helps orient the person being detained to the nature of the interaction--that it's about an immigration matter and not, say, shoplifting.

The other big issue is that there has been a recent huge increase in the number of incidents involving people falsely impersonating ICE, whether to rob, terrorize or otherwise take advantage of people who they think are immigrants.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wear a f^cking uniform already. If the work being done is honorable, don’t hide behind the argument that those being arrested / detained MAY resist. Wearing street clothes certainly doesn’t reduce the risk of that anyway … in fact, it does just the opposite.

FFS, I’m a fifth generation natural born citizen of Western European heritage and I've resorted to carrying my passport on a daily basis now, too. This has gotten goddamned ridiculous, and everyone knows it.

Most federal LE agencies are plainclothes. This isn’t unique to ICE and it isn’t new.

Anonymous wrote:Here's another case where two plain clothes individuals (one wearing a pink shirt and long hair tied in a pony tail and another wearing a balaclava and carrying a backpack) grabbed a Latino man in a courthouse in Charlottesville and escorted him out to an unmarked car. Although they apparently had shown paperwork and credentials to bailiffs before the arrest (according to the county sheriff), it's easy to see why presenting themselves as they did may have concerned onlookers who didn't know that. Wearing a loose pink shirt over jeans and sporting a pony tail does not exactly scream "law enforcement" to me--neither does a dude in jeans wearing a balaclava and carrying a backpack. The third agent is wearing khakis and a hoodie. But at least he doesn't cover his face.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=e_QoGP_6NOo

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:^^^ ICE fanboy, please explain how the most prominent case of these psycho abductions (without following the law and identifying the themselves) escaped your keen eye!

See above. My keen eye catches the details.

Oh, a split second glance is sufficient?

Whatever.

Keep defending the shit we supposedly spent decades fighting against. Fascism is fascism.

You can pretty clearly see in the footage that once the officers pull the badges out of their clothing, they leave them visibly on their chest.

DP. At around 31 seconds in, a male and then a female say, "We're the police." What do you make of that? Do ICE agents usually go around saying, "We're the police" or are they required to say, "We're ICE agents," or "We're with Immigration and Customs Enforcement" or the like? Can any LEO say "I/we're the police" if they're not actually police but a different type of LEO? Because the student was clearly scared and confused as to who they were--i.e., it wasn't immediately apparent to her that they were LEOs. Flashing a badge without saying who you are with and why you are detaining someone does not seem to be enough, especially to someone from another country.

That seems fine to me. If you’re dealing with someone who isn’t from this country and may not speak great english, it seems much clearer to initially say “police” rather than “immigration and customs enforcement.”

I’m not sure what you mean by law enforcement officers who aren’t police. Federal agents are still police officers.

Well, it doesn't seem fine to me and many others who were outraged by the video. Even the neighbor who shot the video is heard to say something like, "How do we know you're the police." To most people in the US and other countries (I have lived and travelled in many and speak four languages), when someone says the word "police," most people take it to mean local police, not special law enforcement agents of some kind. Local police wear a uniform and are easily identified in every country. Most people see them as someone to call upon for assistance if they fear for their safety--in other words, they see them as a source of protection. The student was clearly afraid of the six individuals who accosted her, not reassured by their presence. She also had no clue why they were taking her since she had not done anything wrong. It's not like she just left a store where she had shoplifted some items.

I think we're at a point in this country with Stephen Miller's directive for 3,000 ICE arrests a day and given the high visibility of these actions via social media posts that there should be a clear protocol followed by all ICE officers and those deputized to serve as ICE officers about how to conduct ICE arrests in a way that makes it immediately clear who they are and what they're doing.

Can you explain this a little more? I’m not sure how identifying themselves as ICE first would be any better. In at least some cases, the arrestee isn’t going to know what that means. If the arrestee does understand what Immigration and Customs Enforcement is, why would they be any less scared than if the officer simply identified themself as a police officer? Is the concern that because they’re in plain clothes but identify themselves as police, arrestees won’t believe them?

Yes, the plain clothes + the masks are a concern. In most countries, regular police wear a uniform and don't wear masks.

And regarding what word to use, immediately saying "immigration" or "la migra" if it's a Latino they're dealing with would be helpful because it provides context and helps orient the person being detained to the nature of the interaction--that it's about an immigration matter and not, say, shoplifting.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If we are so proud of rounding up bad guys, why the cloak and dagger with masks and no badges? Why are we showing up to LEGAL court hearing snatching people. Why should anyone go with a masked man with NO identification?

They do have badges. You keep saying that and no one can identify a single case where someone was arrested by an officer without a badge.

But they don't always display them continuously. They should hang them around their neck on a lanyard or pin them on their chests or something. Even the sheriffs in the Old West did that.