Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How exactly are you saving $ for retirement and down-payment on a home on that income? Even a townhouse in not such a great school district is half a million now.

If you can't save on a $250k salary and a $500k home, I don't know what to tell you.

It tells me that you are old and out of touch with reality or live in Oklahoma. Let's say that a dual income family with 2 small kids are saving for a home. Their HHI is $250k. After paying their taxes, healthcare cost (average of 23k contribution for a family of 4), and contribute some to the 401k, they come home with around 10k/month. They have to pay rent while saving for a house, right? So that's 3.5k average for a 2 bedroom apartment in DC area (kids are sharing a room). They also have to put the kids someplace while working, right? So that's another 3k at minimum, assuming one is in preschool. They also have to eat, pay for transportation to work, buy clothes and laundry detergent ($20 right there, and there's so much laundry with kids), pay for utilities, car repairs (assuming they drive old, paid cars).They probably have student loans, because you can't make 250k as a family and not go to college, and these don't seem like the people with parents who paid for college. They probably want to see their families for Christmas and Thanksgiving, have you checked the airplane prices recently?
So how exactly are they saving $100k cash? This is a family who doesn't take any vacations or saves $ for college for their kids.

Not exactly… we make 250 and save alot with three kids. But we bought in an exurb for sub 500 (before pandemic) with 40% down at a low interest rate. We always had roommates when we were single. Obviously housing costs now are a big barrier for people. We managed to get one of the cheapest houses in a neighborhood with highly rated public schools.

We fully fund retirement and have a healthy emergency fund (six figs.). We need to ramp up college saving but will likely wait till youngest is in public elementary school (3 more years)

we have an au pair.
We travel 1-2 times a year, including abroad but stay at places like Hampton inn.
We have student loans.
Utility (bge) and grocery costs have doubled in about 5 years, unfortunately. We do less wegmans and more Aldi.
We drive older cars that we pay cash for.
Kids wear hand me downs including lots from cousins.
We shop at Marshall’s.

So Yes, it’s do-able on 250, even at current housing interest rates. In fact it’s actually a lot of money. But you won’t be saving if you eat out every night and dress your kids in matching Hannah whatever, feel pressure to buy the $1000 stroller/wagon and/or crib, pay thousands for travel sports, shop exclusively at Whole Paycheck, and rip out perfectly usable kitchens or bathrooms from the 80’s because the wood is ‘too yellow.’

There’s a little too much doomsaying on here. We feel very privileged. We know we make a lot of money and feel a strong the responsibility to not waste it. We know there are many people living on much less than us, and it’s an insult to them to claim we are middle class. We hire cleaners and lawn mowers and in general have a ridiculously comfortable life.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How exactly are you saving $ for retirement and down-payment on a home on that income? Even a townhouse in not such a great school district is half a million now.

If you can't save on a $250k salary and a $500k home, I don't know what to tell you.

It tells me that you are old and out of touch with reality or live in Oklahoma. Let's say that a dual income family with 2 small kids are saving for a home. Their HHI is $250k. After paying their taxes, healthcare cost (average of 23k contribution for a family of 4), and contribute some to the 401k, they come home with around 10k/month. They have to pay rent while saving for a house, right? So that's 3.5k average for a 2 bedroom apartment in DC area (kids are sharing a room). They also have to put the kids someplace while working, right? So that's another 3k at minimum, assuming one is in preschool. They also have to eat, pay for transportation to work, buy clothes and laundry detergent ($20 right there, and there's so much laundry with kids), pay for utilities, car repairs (assuming they drive old, paid cars).They probably have student loans, because you can't make 250k as a family and not go to college, and these don't seem like the people with parents who paid for college. They probably want to see their families for Christmas and Thanksgiving, have you checked the airplane prices recently?
So how exactly are they saving $100k cash? This is a family who doesn't take any vacations or saves $ for college for their kids.

DP but while we make $250k combined now (kids are upper ES), we didn't make that much during most of the daycare years. But yeah, I guess we were "old" when we had kids in our mid-30s because I had paid off my student loans by then and we had saved for a down payment. Also, your healthcare costs seem really high so maybe that's affecting your finances. There are certainly places in the burbs where you can rent for less than $3500k per month too. I think the problem is that you're trying to do too much at once. You don't have to max out your 401k right now, we didn't during that time. But my actual middle class parents were barely saving anything so I have some perspective that we are relatively privliged.

I'm not in this situation, I was giving an example. The cost of college is out of control now, va tech is 15k in tuition only this year, so it's close to impossible to pay them so fast.
That's actually the average healthcare cost and rent, isn't it sad? With small kids, you can't rent in West Virginia and commute to DC, there's no daycare that would keep the kids for such a long time.
I can understand the struggle of this generation. And it will continue into the future because they cannot provide help for their children either.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A younger couple at $250k with two kids in day care is a heck of a lot different than a $250k couple with teens who have the advantage of savings and house appreciation. It is two completely different worlds.

Um, teens are much more expensive than little kids in daycare

Spoken like someone who hasn't paid for daycare in over a decade. How are you spending $3000 a month on your teen? I'll give you a few hundred of those dollars as extra food and clothing. Which is much more expensive for teens. But. What else?

Private school. $55k a year. Sports lessons $500 a month, Travel sports $300 a month, therapy, $1000 a month, trainer $600 a month, travel for sports $300 a month (average).

Anonymous wrote:..no matter how much you think you are. If you feel middle class, then your spending is probably too high.

https://www.pewresearch.org/short-reads/2024/09/16/are-you-in-the-american-middle-class/

Middle income and middle class are not the same thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How exactly are you saving $ for retirement and down-payment on a home on that income? Even a townhouse in not such a great school district is half a million now.

If you can't save on a $250k salary and a $500k home, I don't know what to tell you.

It tells me that you are old and out of touch with reality or live in Oklahoma. Let's say that a dual income family with 2 small kids are saving for a home. Their HHI is $250k. After paying their taxes, healthcare cost (average of 23k contribution for a family of 4), and contribute some to the 401k, they come home with around 10k/month. They have to pay rent while saving for a house, right? So that's 3.5k average for a 2 bedroom apartment in DC area (kids are sharing a room). They also have to put the kids someplace while working, right? So that's another 3k at minimum, assuming one is in preschool. They also have to eat, pay for transportation to work, buy clothes and laundry detergent ($20 right there, and there's so much laundry with kids), pay for utilities, car repairs (assuming they drive old, paid cars).They probably have student loans, because you can't make 250k as a family and not go to college, and these don't seem like the people with parents who paid for college. They probably want to see their families for Christmas and Thanksgiving, have you checked the airplane prices recently?
So how exactly are they saving $100k cash? This is a family who doesn't take any vacations or saves $ for college for their kids.

DP but while we make $250k combined now (kids are upper ES), we didn't make that much during most of the daycare years. But yeah, I guess we were "old" when we had kids in our mid-30s because I had paid off my student loans by then and we had saved for a down payment. Also, your healthcare costs seem really high so maybe that's affecting your finances. There are certainly places in the burbs where you can rent for less than $3500k per month too. I think the problem is that you're trying to do too much at once. You don't have to max out your 401k right now, we didn't during that time. But my actual middle class parents were barely saving anything so I have some perspective that we are relatively privliged.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:How exactly are you saving $ for retirement and down-payment on a home on that income? Even a townhouse in not such a great school district is half a million now.

If you can't save on a $250k salary and a $500k home, I don't know what to tell you.

It tells me that you are old and out of touch with reality or live in Oklahoma. Let's say that a dual income family with 2 small kids are saving for a home. Their HHI is $250k. After paying their taxes, healthcare cost (average of 23k contribution for a family of 4), and contribute some to the 401k, they come home with around 10k/month. They have to pay rent while saving for a house, right? So that's 3.5k average for a 2 bedroom apartment in DC area (kids are sharing a room). They also have to put the kids someplace while working, right? So that's another 3k at minimum, assuming one is in preschool. They also have to eat, pay for transportation to work, buy clothes and laundry detergent ($20 right there, and there's so much laundry with kids), pay for utilities, car repairs (assuming they drive old, paid cars).They probably have student loans, because you can't make 250k as a family and not go to college, and these don't seem like the people with parents who paid for college. They probably want to see their families for Christmas and Thanksgiving, have you checked the airplane prices recently?
So how exactly are they saving $100k cash? This is a family who doesn't take any vacations or saves $ for college for their kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a family of five in DC with a HHI of about exactly $250k, I 100% agree. Honestly, we could really feel the difference in moving Fromm about $225k to about $250k - I think around here that’s about the tipping point from UMC to… well upper class has implications beyond income, so let’s say “well off.”

Yes, I think once we tipped over $210k HHI, we went from feeling like we were juggling a bit with daycare etc, and then being able to really sock away money for retirement and college. We can absorb summer camp expenses pretty well. We can pay for vacations and house repairs only needing to "borrow" from our savings and then can pay it back. We're at about $250k now too, family of 4. Childcare goes down each year and since we don't do expensive travel sports, that money is freed up for other things.

We have kept our housing costs low by staying in what many might consider a starter home. But it works really well for us. And I would much rather have a house that feels a little tight for a few years when I have tweens, then a house that's too big/expensive for teenage years and beyond. If something happened to one of us, the other could stay in this house and still be financially solvent.

Similar situation for us. My ILs clearly think we are lame for not upgrading to a bigger house but SIL/BIL now have this huge 5BR McMansion and they're teens are heading off to college and they were super stressed last year when BIL lost his job because they couldn't afford the mortgage for long without his salary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A younger couple at $250k with two kids in day care is a heck of a lot different than a $250k couple with teens who have the advantage of savings and house appreciation. It is two completely different worlds.

Um, teens are much more expensive than little kids in daycare

Spoken like someone who hasn't paid for daycare in over a decade. How are you spending $3000 a month on your teen? I'll give you a few hundred of those dollars as extra food and clothing. Which is much more expensive for teens. But. What else?

Anonymous wrote:It isn't surprising that people here insist that they are middle class. This board is full of virtue-signaling liberals who would never, ever admit to being members of the bourgeoisie. The will continue to steadfastly claim their middle classness even if they own a 10 million dollar mansion on Martha'sVineyard, fly first class and have vacation homes scattered about. They will argue that everyone in their social circle has 20 million dollar homes and private jets thus they are irrefutably middle class because everyone else they know is richer.

Virtue-signaling liberal here: I have frequently argued on these boards that the $250k+ people claiming to be middle class are misguided. Rich people who pretend to be middle class are usually the ones complaining the loudest that their taxes are too high.

Anonymous wrote:As a family of five in DC with a HHI of about exactly $250k, I 100% agree. Honestly, we could really feel the difference in moving Fromm about $225k to about $250k - I think around here that’s about the tipping point from UMC to… well upper class has implications beyond income, so let’s say “well off.”

Yes, I think once we tipped over $210k HHI, we went from feeling like we were juggling a bit with daycare etc, and then being able to really sock away money for retirement and college. We can absorb summer camp expenses pretty well. We can pay for vacations and house repairs only needing to "borrow" from our savings and then can pay it back. We're at about $250k now too, family of 4. Childcare goes down each year and since we don't do expensive travel sports, that money is freed up for other things.

We have kept our housing costs low by staying in what many might consider a starter home. But it works really well for us. And I would much rather have a house that feels a little tight for a few years when I have tweens, then a house that's too big/expensive for teenage years and beyond. If something happened to one of us, the other could stay in this house and still be financially solvent.

Anonymous wrote:How exactly are you saving $ for retirement and down-payment on a home on that income? Even a townhouse in not such a great school district is half a million now.

If you can't save on a $250k salary and a $500k home, I don't know what to tell you.

It isn't surprising that people here insist that they are middle class. This board is full of virtue-signaling liberals who would never, ever admit to being members of the bourgeoisie. The will continue to steadfastly claim their middle classness even if they own a 10 million dollar mansion on Martha'sVineyard, fly first class and have vacation homes scattered about. They will argue that everyone in their social circle has 20 million dollar homes and private jets thus they are irrefutably middle class because everyone else they know is richer.

How exactly are you saving $ for retirement and down-payment on a home on that income? Even a townhouse in not such a great school district is half a million now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A younger couple at $250k with two kids in day care is a heck of a lot different than a $250k couple with teens who have the advantage of savings and house appreciation. It is two completely different worlds.

Um, teens are much more expensive than little kids in daycare

How so? My teen is pretty cheap right now. In two years, he will break the bank as a college student but right now, not many costs.

Maybe their kids are elite gymnasts or figure skaters or something? Because otherwise I agree, genuinely trying to understand how someone is spending more on activities in the teen years than they did on childcare!

We spent nothing on child care. Year round sports, music lessons, orchestra, tutoring.

So you're not the PP who said "Um, teens are much more expensive than little kids in daycare"? #SoConfused

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:A younger couple at $250k with two kids in day care is a heck of a lot different than a $250k couple with teens who have the advantage of savings and house appreciation. It is two completely different worlds.

Um, teens are much more expensive than little kids in daycare

How so? My teen is pretty cheap right now. In two years, he will break the bank as a college student but right now, not many costs.

Maybe their kids are elite gymnasts or figure skaters or something? Because otherwise I agree, genuinely trying to understand how someone is spending more on activities in the teen years than they did on childcare!

We spent nothing on child care. Year round sports, music lessons, orchestra, tutoring.