Anonymous wrote:Not when Trump expects to appoint his own idiots to select the curriculum, hire faculty, and admit students. We live in a democracy and these are independent institutions. It’s disgusting.

What is unfortunate is that there is a national discussion to be had about affordable and equitable access to college. It shouldn’t be considered a luxury to attend but an imperative to attend. Taxpayers should be paying more to ensure the next generation is educated and able to contribute to the economy.

International students do bring value but you can’t claim their presence is to provide a global environment when the overwhelming majority come from 2-3 countries. There is no reason to bring so many in if there are equally or better qualified domestic candidates willing to full pay. If there are not enough domestic candidates to sustain a graduate program then there could be an exception.

Anonymous wrote:I don't think anything is good about a dictator controlling who gets to go to what colleges.

Anonymous wrote:A big MAGA talking point is that foreigners are taking US jobs. It's true - you try getting a job in the Silicon Valley. That is where I'm from, my family lived there until recently but it is literally impossible to compete with H1B visa holders - and now their kids and friends. Even in areas that you don't need tech skills - like marketing - you can't compete. And then competing with foreign students to get into college - there are less spaces for Americans, so there is less opportunity for them and it's a downward spiral.

The universities don't need billions saved in endowments. They can afford to not take foreign money from students.

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Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

Enough domestic full pay applicants without the university meaningfully lowering their admissions standards? Or are you just saying that if you let in anybody who can pay, you will find enough people who want to go?

I'm sure there's a lot of variation in how admissions are done, but the schools I'm familiar with have a separate application for international students. Domestic students are not truly competing with the international pool for the same spots.

There are 100,000 high schools in the U.S. which means that there are 500,000 kids who graduate in the top 5 of their class. Surely there are enough full pay kids in the U.S. who also meet academic standards.

+1. My high stats full pay kid will be attending a T70 while kids from other countries with lower stats are being paid to attend top US colleges. There are plenty of full pay families in the US with academically qualified kids. Of course, there are a number of reasons top colleges choose to pay for international students to attend - clearly that has value to the college - but academic qualifications are not the reason.

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Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

Enough domestic full pay applicants without the university meaningfully lowering their admissions standards? Or are you just saying that if you let in anybody who can pay, you will find enough people who want to go?

I'm sure there's a lot of variation in how admissions are done, but the schools I'm familiar with have a separate application for international students. Domestic students are not truly competing with the international pool for the same spots.

There are 100,000 high schools in the U.S. which means that there are 500,000 kids who graduate in the top 5 of their class. Surely there are enough full pay kids in the U.S. who also meet academic standards.

Median household income is 80k, top 20 percent is 150k, there is no way those families can pay for 80-90k/year with after tax money, only a handful elite colleges will pay for talented kids from those families if they don't get Pell Grant.
BTW, there are about 26k high schools, talented kids only go to a small percentage of them.

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Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

Enough domestic full pay applicants without the university meaningfully lowering their admissions standards? Or are you just saying that if you let in anybody who can pay, you will find enough people who want to go?

I'm sure there's a lot of variation in how admissions are done, but the schools I'm familiar with have a separate application for international students. Domestic students are not truly competing with the international pool for the same spots.

There are 100,000 high schools in the U.S. which means that there are 500,000 kids who graduate in the top 5 of their class. Surely there are enough full pay kids in the U.S. who also meet academic standards.

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Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

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Anonymous wrote:A big MAGA talking point is that foreigners are taking US jobs. It's true - you try getting a job in the Silicon Valley. That is where I'm from, my family lived there until recently but it is literally impossible to compete with H1B visa holders - and now their kids and friends. Even in areas that you don't need tech skills - like marketing - you can't compete. And then competing with foreign students to get into college - there are less spaces for Americans, so there is less opportunity for them and it's a downward spiral.

The universities don't need billions saved in endowments. They can afford to not take foreign money from students.

Sorry to hear that, but that's how to keep American companies competitive globally, suck talents from other countries, and keep labor cost low in this country.
Same for foreign students, some of them will stay, some will go back to their countries becoming head of states, bureaucrats in their government, that gives great advantage to U.S to advocate its policies and interests, other countries like China, Russia, or EU would dream to have talented students come to their universities.

Then we need reform for workers here. Not to compete with each other. Companies should have limits on profits, limits on what they promise shareholders, limits on what they pay CEOs and most importantly, investment back into workers by competitive wages for all (no undercutting). This is (gasp!) a bend towards unions and regulation on unfettered capitalism. Yes. I know that scares people. But why are people more scared of this kind of governmental "overreach" - Oversight - and not the overreaching of a smalldick dictator telling colleges what to do?

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Anonymous wrote:Wouldn't it be a good thing if the top US schools educated and prepared more US students? Is what's happening at harvard a blessing in disguise?

Maybe the government should limit the number of international students at all top schools. Getting in and the cost of attending is just too much.

International students are a major source of funding. They are almost all full pay (sometimes at higher rates than Americans) so they subsidize financial aid as well as their programs of study.

If the government were paying for universities - as it could and arguably should, so that everyone could have a low-cost or free education - then maybe we could talk about it. But as it is, limiting international students would just reduce what the university can afford to do for Americans.

NP. At top universities - at least top 20, top 50, there are enough domestic full pay applicants to make up that funding.

Enough domestic full pay applicants without the university meaningfully lowering their admissions standards? Or are you just saying that if you let in anybody who can pay, you will find enough people who want to go?

I'm sure there's a lot of variation in how admissions are done, but the schools I'm familiar with have a separate application for international students. Domestic students are not truly competing with the international pool for the same spots.

There are 100,000 high schools in the U.S. which means that there are 500,000 kids who graduate in the top 5 of their class. Surely there are enough full pay kids in the U.S. who also meet academic standards.

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Anonymous wrote:A big MAGA talking point is that foreigners are taking US jobs. It's true - you try getting a job in the Silicon Valley. That is where I'm from, my family lived there until recently but it is literally impossible to compete with H1B visa holders - and now their kids and friends. Even in areas that you don't need tech skills - like marketing - you can't compete. And then competing with foreign students to get into college - there are less spaces for Americans, so there is less opportunity for them and it's a downward spiral.

The universities don't need billions saved in endowments. They can afford to not take foreign money from students.

Sorry to hear that, but that's how to keep American companies competitive globally, suck talents from other countries, and keep labor cost low in this country.
Same for foreign students, some of them will stay, some will go back to their countries becoming head of states, bureaucrats in their government, that gives great advantage to U.S to advocate its policies and interests, other countries like China, Russia, or EU would dream to have talented students come to their universities.