Anonymous
Post 05/12/2025 17:52     Subject: HS Math- which class to take
It also might be that some schools will look at students taking MVC in high school as trying to use their privilege to game the system. So the student who only takes precalculus might be at an advantage. I can definitely see this happening at colleges that put more value into having a diverse student body with a wide range of experiences.
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2025 17:50     Subject: HS Math- which class to take
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It seems the majority of freshmen at the top schools- Ivy, Ivy plus and engineering focused schools- have already completed MVC in high school.

The big debate seems to be if you should retake it in college to develop a better foundation.


Do you have stats to back up this assertion? I'm guessing no way it's the "majority".


DP. It would generally be true for engineering majors. If that's the intended major, you really should take the highest level math available at your high school. If you don't, you are going to have a tough time with admissions. And again, once you get into the intro classes where most others will have taken MV. The curve on weed out classes in engineering can be pretty tough. And any student that maxed out with calculus AB is going to be at a serious disadvantage in engineering.


Are you saying a kid that has A's in both Calc AB and BC is going to have a tough time with admissions to top schools because they didn't take MV? Because I can tell you for a fact that is not true. Every candidate is going to be different. Like I said, they need to be well rounded in all aspects in HS. That is the most important.


Generally that's true. But I believe this topic was about engineering. And that's the most competitive major there is. It's also different schools that these students are interested in. Harvard and Yale, for instance, aren't really where these students want to go. It's an entirely different group of schools. But whether it's MIT or Georgia Tech, flaking on math senior year is going to hurt an app for engineering. Someone choosing stats over MV is pretty much dooming their application for a strong engineering program. Which I think was the original question.
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2025 16:38     Subject: HS Math- which class to take
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It seems the majority of freshmen at the top schools- Ivy, Ivy plus and engineering focused schools- have already completed MVC in high school.

The big debate seems to be if you should retake it in college to develop a better foundation.


Do you have stats to back up this assertion? I'm guessing no way it's the "majority".


DP. It would generally be true for engineering majors. If that's the intended major, you really should take the highest level math available at your high school. If you don't, you are going to have a tough time with admissions. And again, once you get into the intro classes where most others will have taken MV. The curve on weed out classes in engineering can be pretty tough. And any student that maxed out with calculus AB is going to be at a serious disadvantage in engineering.


Are you saying a kid that has A's in both Calc AB and BC is going to have a tough time with admissions to top schools because they didn't take MV? Because I can tell you for a fact that is not true. Every candidate is going to be different. Like I said, they need to be well rounded in all aspects in HS. That is the most important.
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2025 15:45     Subject: HS Math- which class to take
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:It seems the majority of freshmen at the top schools- Ivy, Ivy plus and engineering focused schools- have already completed MVC in high school.

The big debate seems to be if you should retake it in college to develop a better foundation.


Do you have stats to back up this assertion? I'm guessing no way it's the "majority".


DP. It would generally be true for engineering majors. If that's the intended major, you really should take the highest level math available at your high school. If you don't, you are going to have a tough time with admissions. And again, once you get into the intro classes where most others will have taken MV. The curve on weed out classes in engineering can be pretty tough. And any student that maxed out with calculus AB is going to be at a serious disadvantage in engineering.
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2025 15:23     Subject: HS Math- which class to take
Anonymous wrote:It seems the majority of freshmen at the top schools- Ivy, Ivy plus and engineering focused schools- have already completed MVC in high school.

The big debate seems to be if you should retake it in college to develop a better foundation.


Do you have stats to back up this assertion? I'm guessing no way it's the "majority".
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2025 14:10     Subject: HS Math- which class to take
It seems the majority of freshmen at the top schools- Ivy, Ivy plus and engineering focused schools- have already completed MVC in high school.

The big debate seems to be if you should retake it in college to develop a better foundation.
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2025 14:08     Subject: HS Math- which class to take
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:For engineering, from a high school where many kids take MV, you have to take MV.


+1

This! And yes, you will have to retake in College. Where your kid will help set the curve (and annoy those who only took Calc BC and are seeing MV for first time). My kid's school had many kids doing this. 50%+ of their Calc 3 were kids who already learned the material previously.


You sound as if you know this to be fact. Is your kid still in high school or is he now admitted to college. If so, what engineering school were they accepted to?


Yes my kid is in an engineering school. And yes at their school it was facts for mvc and orgo (for freshman). Over 50% of those in the classes freshman year had already taken the course in HS.
U Rochester


Gotch ya. Makes sense. U Rochester is a good school. My son's school didn't offer MV so that's probably why it didn't matter for him.
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2025 14:01     Subject: HS Math- which class to take
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:For engineering, from a high school where many kids take MV, you have to take MV.


+1

This! And yes, you will have to retake in College. Where your kid will help set the curve (and annoy those who only took Calc BC and are seeing MV for first time). My kid's school had many kids doing this. 50%+ of their Calc 3 were kids who already learned the material previously.


You sound as if you know this to be fact. Is your kid still in high school or is he now admitted to college. If so, what engineering school were they accepted to?


Yes my kid is in an engineering school. And yes at their school it was facts for mvc and orgo (for freshman). Over 50% of those in the classes freshman year had already taken the course in HS.
U Rochester

To me, that's the best reason to take the class in high school even if you'll have to repeat it in college. I'd much rather be a part of the 50% who have already had significant exposure to the material and not part of the 50% seeing it for the first time.
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2025 13:50     Subject: HS Math- which class to take
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:For engineering, from a high school where many kids take MV, you have to take MV.


+1

This! And yes, you will have to retake in College. Where your kid will help set the curve (and annoy those who only took Calc BC and are seeing MV for first time). My kid's school had many kids doing this. 50%+ of their Calc 3 were kids who already learned the material previously.


You sound as if you know this to be fact. Is your kid still in high school or is he now admitted to college. If so, what engineering school were they accepted to?


Yes my kid is in an engineering school. And yes at their school it was facts for mvc and orgo (for freshman). Over 50% of those in the classes freshman year had already taken the course in HS.
U Rochester
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2025 13:49     Subject: HS Math- which class to take
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:For engineering, from a high school where many kids take MV, you have to take MV.


+1

This! And yes, you will have to retake in College. Where your kid will help set the curve (and annoy those who only took Calc BC and are seeing MV for first time). My kid's school had many kids doing this. 50%+ of their Calc 3 were kids who already learned the material previously.


My daughter will take MVC, LA, and DE before HS graduation and 100% plans to retake at least one of those in college to confirm knowledge and ensure a rock solid foundation.


Exactly! But she will kill the curve in the class for kids who are taking it the first time.

My kid had that for calc 3 and Orgo --all the kids who were "retaking it " killed the curve that's normal in the course. Because obviously those advanced courses are easier the 2nd time
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2025 13:47     Subject: HS Math- which class to take
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Intended engineering major.

AP calc BC in 11th. All As. Assume 5 on AP test.

What to take in 12th?
MV calc? Offered at the HS, but Would have to repeat in college so I’m wondering why take in HS. Kid is strong in math, learns it quickly, doesn’t need to see it twice to learn it deeply. But is this needed in 12th to be considered highest rigor?

Or AP Stats? Seems more practical subject matter, important for everyone. Not sure if this would allow to skip stats in college… haven’t looked into whether engineering generally accepts this as credit or not. But also, would this be considered less math rigor than taking MV in 12th?

Kid at strong HS where many kids will be taking MV in 12th.

why do you assume he would need to retake multi, linear, or diff eq? Many schools offer challenge exams / departmental exams for credit


As mentioned earlier, high school calculus and the cal sequences at many universities (1-3) are not very rigorous. If attending a school with more demanding requirements, you won't get credit for certain classes, and you just won't have been prepared to test out of them if even that was a possibility.


Many universities do NOt offer tests to place out of mvc. And there is no AP test for it.
So yes they want you to take it at the university. Also many top schools limit how many AP credits you can have. My kid can only use placement/AP to test out of 4 courses. You can take more advanced but you still have to take some course--you cannot graduate more than 1 semester early (unless it's from taking the classes in the summer at that university)
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2025 13:34     Subject: HS Math- which class to take
STEM Magnet schools do a 1 semester stats class before or concurrent with calculus, that is more rigorous than AP Stats. You're on the back foot if you take a 1-year AP Stats class, unless you get that guidance counselor letter saying your school didn't offer anything more rigorous.
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2025 13:33     Subject: HS Math- which class to take
OP here - wow, opinions seem to be split 50-50 on this topic.

To address a PP, the choice is not between MV and and EC/leadership. MV would be the math class during school... can't take less classes to do an EC instead. Also, math is required every year in HS in MCPS to graduate. Anyway, taking MV doesn't make kid less well-rounded. Not even related. Have to take a math class senior year because required to graduate HS. The only ones left are MV or AP Stats or I think LA. The choice is not between MV or do nothing.... or MV vs swimming, for example.
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2025 13:28     Subject: Re:HS Math- which class to take
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:My DC took MV and got the credit from GMU so they did not have to take it again college.


That's the best way to do it if one can.


If you're at GMU, sure.
Anonymous
Post 05/12/2025 13:26     Subject: HS Math- which class to take
Anonymous wrote:Once you get past AP Calculus BC, anything after that is not going to add any value to the application.

MV is not going to tip your application to the admit pile at any college.

Once you pass the AP Calculus BC filter, they know you are strong in math and that it is not a concern. Even if you major in math.

Then the focus is on the rest of the application.

DC is an MOP qualifier and I am very familiar with strong math kids. I did not see MV make any difference.


Of course it doesn't for you, because your strong math kids are well beyond MV Calc in depth, into MOP style math. But OP is talking about normal advanced-school kids who only do the basic school math track, not national math league extra curriculars.