Anonymous wrote:
DP.

Ridiculous. No nation on earth allows foreign visitors unfettered and unlimited rights to protest and otherwise disrupt society.

Doing so (a) raises obvious national security concerns and (b) interferes with our (Americans’) ability to govern ourselves.

Should devout foreign students visiting the US be allowed to protest against gay rights and call for violence against LGBTQ people?

Should Russian tourists be allowed to protest against US support for Ukraine?

I don’t think so.

And yet, President Trump vociferously defended the right of a British nation, living in the United States on an O-1B visa, to exactly that during his first administration.

Remember Milo Yiannopoulos?

Milo was a writer for Breitbart in 2014-17. As you might imagine, Milo embraced every far-right talking point he could get his arms around, and antagonized every minority group his friends loathed. Muslims? Absolutely, and he made clear that he wasn't talking about extreme Islam: "I'm not talking about Islamists. I'm not talking about terrorists. I'm not talking about radical Islam. I'm talking about mainstream Muslim culture." Feminists? He described them as "dumpy lesbians" and boasted that "feminism is cancer" and "a mean, vindictive, sociopathic, man-hating movement." He also wrote that "birth control makes women unattractive and crazy." Blacks? His personal attacks of actress Leslie Jones, who he referred to as a "black dude," were so bad that Tweeter banned him. (Of course, Elon Musk reinstated him.) Gays? Also on his hit list: "Gay rights have made us dumber, it’s time to get back in the closet." Oh, did I mention that Milo is gay himself?

And what about Milo's friends? Well, here's Wikipedia synopsis of them: "In 2017, Yiannopoulos was depicted singing ''America the Beautiful'' at a karaoke bar, where a crowd of neo-Nazis and white supremacists, including Richard B. Spencer, cheered him with the Nazi sieg heil salute. In response, Yiannopoulos denied observing the Nazi salutes while he was singing, citing what he claimed to be ''extreme myopia''. [sic] According to the bartender who was working on the night of the incident, Yiannopoulos, Spencer and their entourage came into the bar and asked to sing karaoke even though it had ended. When the bartender saw the Nazi salutes she rushed the stage and told Yiannopoulos and his friends to leave, at which point they began harassing her, chanting ''Trump! Trump! Trump!'' and ''Make America Great Again!'' According to her, Yiannopoulos was getting the others ''roused.''

Anyhoo, during President Trump's administration, Milo got the wonderful idea of taking his show on the road. The Dangerous <Insert Gay Slur Here and a Reminder that Milo is Gay> Tour, he called it. He opened his circus tent on college campuses across the country. Predictably, college students were not happy -- especially at the University of California at Berkeley. In their counterprotest to shut down Milo's event before it began, students turned violent -- fires, overturning police cars, the whole nine yards. University officials got the message and cancelled the event.

President Trump was not happy: "If U.C. Berkeley does not allow free speech and practices violence on innocent people with a different point of view - NO FEDERAL FUNDS?" he Tweeted. Yeppers, President Trump threatened to take away federal funds if foreign nationals weren't given University access to protest, criticize, and insult Muslims, feminists, lesbians, and blacks.

So, yes, it appears that guests in our country can protest to their heart's content -- so long as they protest against Muslims, feminists, lesbians, and blacks.

https://www.politico.com/story/2017/02/trump-uc-berkeley-milo-yiannopoulos-234530
https://www.yahoo.com/entertainment/could-milo-deported-immigration-attorney-explains-guest-blog-213228247.html
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Milo_Yiannopoulos

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:American Association of University Professors v. Rubio (D. Mass.)

Has survived the government's motion to dismiss related to the 1st amendment (5th amendment claims are dismissed). This relates directly to the actions taken against foreign students and academics who have voiced pro-Palestine opinions. Contrary to what a lot of people seem to think, there are 1st amendment rights for non-citizens. Hard to grasp, I know.

Yes they have a right to voice their opinions. And as democrats loved spouting since 2016, using your right to free speech doesn’t absolve you of the consequences of that action. The government will not imprison anyone over speech, but it can have a noncitizen’s visa revoked.

No foreign national has an absolute right to be present in the US.

Comments like the above just show how MAGA doesn’t understand the basic concepts and ideas that we are discussing in the first place. The first amendment is clear. Government cannot “prohibit” or “abridge” free speech. Period. Trump is counting on the stupidity of the American people and it seems like the people are really going to give it to him.

They are free to say anything they want.

And the US government is allowed to revoke their visa if that speech is seen as a violation of their visa’s rules.

I get it. Foreign nationals have been allowed into this country and permitted to run wild forgetting they are guests here.

But that is coming to an end. Respect your host country, don’t break any laws, if you don’t agree with the government leave and protest it in your native country. It is very simple.

Once again, guests to this country are covered by the same First Amendment rights to free speech as US citizens. Let's review, shall we:

Non-citizens in the U.S., including undocumented immigrants, are protected by the First Amendment to the Constitution. This includes the rights to:

Free speech
Freedom of religion
Freedom of the press
Peaceful assembly
Petitioning the government

The U.S. Supreme Court has consistently held that these rights apply to "all persons" on U.S. soil—not just citizens—regardless of immigration status.

Can we give them guns too? Because I can't see anything wrong with arming the enemies of the US.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not rocket science. If you're not a citizen, don't criticize Israel. If you can't accept that, then don't come here.

This is utter insanity. Don't come to the US and criticize another country? How on earth does anyone think that's ok?

Agree. A standard of Don't come to the US and criticize it is understandable and logical. Whether it is good policy or constitutional is debatable but at least one can understand the idea. But why should criticizing Israel, here in the US, be prohibited? What is the rationale?

There is a difference from being critical and participating actively in protests. And, many of those protests involved blocking students from attending class. One of those protests held janitors hostage in a building.

But, even so, if you want to criticize us and change us, why do you want to be here?

We get it! You’re quite content with the status quo of our foreign policy.

But I have a strong hunch that you’d be singing (screeching?) a very, very different tune if Thomas Massie found himself at the head of State, Rashida Tlaib found herself at the head of DHS, and U.S. foreign policy was cured of its current disease and corruption.

Also, guess what?! Some of those protests involved the commission of federal hate crimes and a slew of conspiracy, felony assault and battery crimes, and more. For example, you mention class access issues (inaccurately, by the way - nobody was blocked from attending class; rather, protesters didn’t disperse from certain access points, “forcing” others to walk around the protest and access class from the path they wanted to take), but you seem very oddly silent on the major crimes committed by the pro-Israel terrorists at UCLA (who were paid by radical, extremist Zionists).

This country was established by individuals who were imperfect, but even those imperfect men and women wholly rejected what you now expect us all to tolerate. We don’t bow down to corruption, we fight it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:American Association of University Professors v. Rubio (D. Mass.)

Has survived the government's motion to dismiss related to the 1st amendment (5th amendment claims are dismissed). This relates directly to the actions taken against foreign students and academics who have voiced pro-Palestine opinions. Contrary to what a lot of people seem to think, there are 1st amendment rights for non-citizens. Hard to grasp, I know.

Of course it isn’t. It’s right there in the Constitution. This is not rocket science.

I meant the last sentence as sarcasm.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not rocket science. If you're not a citizen, don't criticize Israel. If you can't accept that, then don't come here.

This is utter insanity. Don't come to the US and criticize another country? How on earth does anyone think that's ok?

Agree. A standard of Don't come to the US and criticize it is understandable and logical. Whether it is good policy or constitutional is debatable but at least one can understand the idea. But why should criticizing Israel, here in the US, be prohibited? What is the rationale?

There is a difference from being critical and participating actively in protests. And, many of those protests involved blocking students from attending class. One of those protests held janitors hostage in a building.

But, even so, if you want to criticize us and change us, why do you want to be here?

Criticize us and change us? There is absolutely no agreement in this country on almost any issue. Of course a guest here cannot be on both sides at the same time. Their views on any issue are going to conflict with the Americans who hold opposing views.

That is fine. We are not so weak that this country cannot handle any descent and discussion and opposing views.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not rocket science. If you're not a citizen, don't criticize Israel. If you can't accept that, then don't come here.

This is utter insanity. Don't come to the US and criticize another country? How on earth does anyone think that's ok?

Agree. A standard of Don't come to the US and criticize it is understandable and logical. Whether it is good policy or constitutional is debatable but at least one can understand the idea. But why should criticizing Israel, here in the US, be prohibited? What is the rationale?

There is a difference from being critical and participating actively in protests. And, many of those protests involved blocking students from attending class. One of those protests held janitors hostage in a building.

But, even so, if you want to criticize us and change us, why do you want to be here?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not rocket science. If you're not a citizen, don't criticize Israel. If you can't accept that, then don't come here.

This is utter insanity. Don't come to the US and criticize another country? How on earth does anyone think that's ok?

Agree. A standard of Don't come to the US and criticize it is understandable and logical. Whether it is good policy or constitutional is debatable but at least one can understand the idea. But why should criticizing Israel, here in the US, be prohibited? What is the rationale?

Anonymous wrote:It's not rocket science. If you're not a citizen, don't criticize Israel. If you can't accept that, then don't come here.

This is utter insanity. Don't come to the US and criticize another country? How on earth does anyone think that's ok?

Anonymous wrote:It's not rocket science. If you're not a citizen, don't criticize Israel. If you can't accept that, then don't come here.

What makes Israel so special, other than being the focus of end times eschatology among Christian Nationalists and Dominionists?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It's not rocket science. If you're not a citizen, don't criticize Israel. If you can't accept that, then don't come here.

This is a great long-term position if one’s goal is to cultivate increasing levels of outrage and hostility toward Israel and those aligned with Israel.

In a world of over 8 billion people, almost certain to be a really bad strategy.

Works fine in Germany

Anonymous wrote:It's not rocket science. If you're not a citizen, don't criticize Israel. If you can't accept that, then don't come here.

This is a great long-term position if one’s goal is to cultivate increasing levels of outrage and hostility toward Israel and those aligned with Israel.

In a world of over 8 billion people, almost certain to be a really bad strategy.

It's not rocket science. If you're not a citizen, don't criticize Israel. If you can't accept that, then don't come here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:American Association of University Professors v. Rubio (D. Mass.)

Has survived the government's motion to dismiss related to the 1st amendment (5th amendment claims are dismissed). This relates directly to the actions taken against foreign students and academics who have voiced pro-Palestine opinions. Contrary to what a lot of people seem to think, there are 1st amendment rights for non-citizens. Hard to grasp, I know.

Yes they have a right to voice their opinions. And as democrats loved spouting since 2016, using your right to free speech doesn’t absolve you of the consequences of that action. The government will not imprison anyone over speech, but it can have a noncitizen’s visa revoked.

No foreign national has an absolute right to be present in the US.

Comments like the above just show how MAGA doesn’t understand the basic concepts and ideas that we are discussing in the first place. The first amendment is clear. Government cannot “prohibit” or “abridge” free speech. Period. Trump is counting on the stupidity of the American people and it seems like the people are really going to give it to him.

They are free to say anything they want.

And the US government is allowed to revoke their visa if that speech is seen as a violation of their visa’s rules.

I get it. Foreign nationals have been allowed into this country and permitted to run wild forgetting they are guests here.

But that is coming to an end. Respect your host country, don’t break any laws, if you don’t agree with the government leave and protest it in your native country. It is very simple.

THIS ^^. Pretty amazing that the left - who screeches about the concept of "you can say whatever you want, but no one is immune from the consequences of that speech" - are now insisting that a foreign national, here as a GUEST in our country, can engage in disruptive political demonstrations without repercussions. I can't even imagine an American in a foreign country on a green card, behaving like this and then expecting to be immune from deportation. You'd kind of imagine that anyone here on a visa would be on their best behavior so as not to draw the attention of immigration. The arrogance is pretty breathtaking.

This country used to aspire to be more free— and thereby stronger—than the rest. The standard you want us to embrace is the standard of Singapore beating American tourists for chewing gum—which, at the time, was considered insane. No thank you.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:American Association of University Professors v. Rubio (D. Mass.)

Has survived the government's motion to dismiss related to the 1st amendment (5th amendment claims are dismissed). This relates directly to the actions taken against foreign students and academics who have voiced pro-Palestine opinions. Contrary to what a lot of people seem to think, there are 1st amendment rights for non-citizens. Hard to grasp, I know.

Yes they have a right to voice their opinions. And as democrats loved spouting since 2016, using your right to free speech doesn’t absolve you of the consequences of that action. The government will not imprison anyone over speech, but it can have a noncitizen’s visa revoked.

No foreign national has an absolute right to be present in the US.

Then don't ever say we are a great nation. If that's a natural consequence, we suck. Especially because you know very well it's not uniformly applied.

DP.

Ridiculous. No nation on earth allows foreign visitors unfettered and unlimited rights to protest and otherwise disrupt society.

Doing so (a) raises obvious national security concerns and (b) interferes with our (Americans’) ability to govern ourselves.

Should devout foreign students visiting the US be allowed to protest against gay rights and call for violence against LGBTQ people?

Should Russian tourists be allowed to protest against US support for Ukraine?

I don’t think so.

I have personally witnessed the first and if you think the second has not happened here I have a bridge to sell you. We all lived.

Please look up Bridges vs Wixon (1945).