Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, the University of California, *not* all of academia.

Stanford University, MIT, Northwestern University, Cornell University, University of Notre Dame, Emory University, University of Washington, and North Carolina State University are among other institutions that have announced either full or partial hiring freezes. You should expect more to follow suit.

Anyone who knows anything about academe knows that this has been going on since the pandemic when enrollment continued its trend of falling off the cliff. A college education has become too expensive and the cost benefit analysis is not always in the favor of throwing yourself into debt for 10 years.

The "folk wisdom" on this is total bullshit. Even accounting for the huge differences between the average student who goes to college and one who does not, there is very good evidence from very good administrative data that going to college causes one's earnings to go up, even for the most marginal students.

See, e.g., https://www.nber.org/papers/w32296

Also notice in that paper that it's not just the individual rate of return to college students that is large. The "social" rate of return is large too. That's another way of saying that when people spread this folk wisdom to discourage people from going to college, they are making the world worse off, full stop.

Does that account that marginally admitted students are likely more well off to begin with. You know like the Varsity Blues sting where rich kids were cheating to get in. I was the opposite I was an exceptional student with a free ride(with fafsa), but very little return on the college degree. It took me nearly ten years to get a job in the field and am still making median wages for my area.

Higher education is nothing but a social sorting system.

Actually, yes, the study does deal with this pretty effectively, although the potential issue is kind of the opposite of what you're implying.

The study is using the various SAT/ACT cutoffs at public schools in Texas, only comparing people who are within a few test score points of the cutoff. These cutoffs have a big impact on admissions probability, but they are imperfect, because some students get in anyway (Figure 2). The students just above and below the cutoff look almost identical across all all the observable characteristics in the data (Figures 3 and 4), so there isn't an obvious bump that would exist if, for example, wealthier families were cheating on the SATs to get above the cutoff.

But, since the cutoffs aren't 100% binding, there is still a concern that wealthier families might be finding other ways to get in despite being below the SAT/ACT cutoffs. The standard econ toolkit in this case adjusts for this by statistically identifying "compliers", i.e. people who only go if they exceed the cutoff, because they don't find another way in. Comparing columns 4 and 5 of table 1, you can see that although the compliers are pretty similar to the other marginal applicants, there is some suggestive evidence that they may be a bit more economically disadvantaged. For example, compliers are more likely to be black and a bit less likely to be male.

But, the key thing is, the estimated effects of scoring above the threshold are for these compliers. In other words, this study measures the impact precisely on a subset of students that are not able to otherwise game the system, to use your words. More importantly, if the study is doing a bad job of this statistical adjustment (I don't think it is), then the estimated impact of going to college would likely be underestimated, not overestimated as you're suggesting. This is because SAT/ACT scores have a weaker relationship to eventual college attendance among wealthier people, so you'd be capturing some of the earnings effects of going to college in both sides of the cutoff

tl;dr yes the research is good. You have the link. Read the paper and quit with the folk wisdom bullshitting that is harming high school graduates by talking them out of one of the best investments they can make.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with academia not getting any federal funds. Especially research, there is a pervasive attitude that Americans aren't interested, and they need H-1B. Let the foreigners pay for their own research and skills. Quit training our competition that is what I say.

I could see if the whole academic H-1b worked the way it was sold to us. EG We don't have specific skills, they bring in professors to teach us the skills. However, that isn't the way it works. The H-1b they bring in are horrible at transferring knowledge to Americans, they take lower wages then drive out Americans, and bring in more foreigners, "Because Americans aren't interested."

Bringing in Foreigners to teach us skills, only makes sense if we're actually interested in the skills. Who is going to study for twenty years to work in a cubicle for a median wage and long hours? Bus drivers and plumber's make more money and have more job security.

This is the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The current administration is questioning whether it is necessary for the U.S. taxpayer to fund various research projects, particularly at universities with large endowments who can easily afford to fund such projects on their own. Likewise, the current administration is freezing funds from going to universities that refuse to enforce their own rules against antisemitism or who are breaking federal law.

No university is entitled to Federal funds.

When can we expect the current administration (and you) to stop with this anti-semitism DEI bullshit and focus instead on discrimination of any person?

The only DEI you seem to have a stomach for is this anti-semitism obsession …

Well, the Jews had to wait for 4 years for a change in presidents to get their share of anti-discrimination enforcement. How about they get their 4 years and we can talk in 2029?

And as for combating discrimination of any person, dismantling DEI is achieving this....

Is it? Because all it seems to be doing is pretending that only White men are responsible for anything in the country.

I really don't see why subsidizing research needs to be done by the public.

All of the endpoints are for private industry.

A) Why do you get an education? So that you can get a job in private industry.

B) Why do we develop technology? So that private industry can make money developing it.

For point A, I can see the argument that we can make people that wouldn't otherwise have an opportunity to get the education and get the jobs, but in practice is doesn't play out like that. Private industry is so nepotistic. Very few of the people that get government aid end up in good jobs in industry. In cases there are jobs that the Good Ol' Boys for industry don't want to give their kids, they clearly prefer foreigners as indentured servants. So basically, we pay to train foreigners so that private industry can take advantage of indentured servants. The rest of us end up with giant academic bills.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, the University of California, *not* all of academia.

Stanford University, MIT, Northwestern University, Cornell University, University of Notre Dame, Emory University, University of Washington, and North Carolina State University are among other institutions that have announced either full or partial hiring freezes. You should expect more to follow suit.

Anyone who knows anything about academe knows that this has been going on since the pandemic when enrollment continued its trend of falling off the cliff. A college education has become too expensive and the cost benefit analysis is not always in the favor of throwing yourself into debt for 10 years.

The science community disagrees with you.

Currents cuts to research at eu precedented. The withholding of allocated USAID money/ NIH/ CDC and Dept Energy funding have caused many planned health and STEM research projects to be cancelled or paused.

DC is post doc at leading STEM academic research center and all the post docs are worried about finding work now.

Also enrollment has not been dropping off at top colleges but they are impacted by the research cuts as well.

Scientific Research is Getting Cut—and That Should Scare All Americans
The Trump administration’s cuts to federally funded STEM research is devastating current and future innovations by NEA Higher Ed members.
https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/scientific-research-getting-cut-and-should-scare-all-americans

US science is under threat ― now scientists are fighting back
Researchers are organizing protests and making their voices heard as Trump officials slash funding and lay off federal scientists.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-00661-8


NIH Budget Cuts Are a “Short-Sighted” Setback for US Science
An NIH policy to reduce funding for indirect costs to 15 percent, although temporarily blocked nationwide, sparks widespread concern and criticism among scientists.
https://www.the-scientist.com/nih-budget-cuts-are-a-short-sighted-setback-for-us-science-72707

Space scientists fearful as Trump administration targets science and mulls NASA cuts
Researchers worry an “extinction-level event” is coming for space science as the Trump administration looks to slash spending.
https://www.astronomy.com/space-exploration/space-scientists-fearful-as-trump-administration-targets-science-and-mulls-nasa-cuts/

These frustrated scientists want to leave the United States — do you? Take Nature’s poll
In the wake of the Trump administration’s funding freezes and job cuts, some researchers are planning their next move.

Some scientists in the United States have told Nature that they are considering leaving the country in the wake of widespread disruption to research brought in by the administration of US President Donald Trump. The researchers say they are looking for opportunities in Europe, Australia and Asia.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-00757-1

France has said they would welcome US scientists and researchers-this came after a French researcher was denied access into the country (he was coming to a conference in TX) because he texted with colleagues criticism of Trump policies. Everyone should be alarmed when reading this story.

Anonymous wrote:So, the University of California, *not* all of academia.

Do your research.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, the University of California, *not* all of academia.

Stanford University, MIT, Northwestern University, Cornell University, University of Notre Dame, Emory University, University of Washington, and North Carolina State University are among other institutions that have announced either full or partial hiring freezes. You should expect more to follow suit.

Anyone who knows anything about academe knows that this has been going on since the pandemic when enrollment continued its trend of falling off the cliff. A college education has become too expensive and the cost benefit analysis is not always in the favor of throwing yourself into debt for 10 years.

The "folk wisdom" on this is total bullshit. Even accounting for the huge differences between the average student who goes to college and one who does not, there is very good evidence from very good administrative data that going to college causes one's earnings to go up, even for the most marginal students.

See, e.g., https://www.nber.org/papers/w32296

Also notice in that paper that it's not just the individual rate of return to college students that is large. The "social" rate of return is large too. That's another way of saying that when people spread this folk wisdom to discourage people from going to college, they are making the world worse off, full stop.

Does that account that marginally admitted students are likely more well off to begin with. You know like the Varsity Blues sting where rich kids were cheating to get in. I was the opposite I was an exceptional student with a free ride(with fafsa), but very little return on the college degree. It took me nearly ten years to get a job in the field and am still making median wages for my area.

Higher education is nothing but a social sorting system.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, the University of California, *not* all of academia.

Stanford University, MIT, Northwestern University, Cornell University, University of Notre Dame, Emory University, University of Washington, and North Carolina State University are among other institutions that have announced either full or partial hiring freezes. You should expect more to follow suit.

Anyone who knows anything about academe knows that this has been going on since the pandemic when enrollment continued its trend of falling off the cliff. A college education has become too expensive and the cost benefit analysis is not always in the favor of throwing yourself into debt for 10 years.

The science community disagrees with you.

Currents cuts to research at eu precedented. The withholding of allocated USAID money/ NIH/ CDC and Dept Energy funding have caused many planned health and STEM research projects to be cancelled or paused.

DC is post doc at leading STEM academic research center and all the post docs are worried about finding work now.

Also enrollment has not been dropping off at top colleges but they are impacted by the research cuts as well.

My DC is in the last year of her STEM PhD at probably the best program in the country and has no idea what she's going for her postdoc. Everything is frozen.

It is such a total waste of brilliant minds and years of education … best wishes to your DC.

The brain drain has already begun and it is all so unnecessary.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, the University of California, *not* all of academia.

Stanford University, MIT, Northwestern University, Cornell University, University of Notre Dame, Emory University, University of Washington, and North Carolina State University are among other institutions that have announced either full or partial hiring freezes. You should expect more to follow suit.

Anyone who knows anything about academe knows that this has been going on since the pandemic when enrollment continued its trend of falling off the cliff. A college education has become too expensive and the cost benefit analysis is not always in the favor of throwing yourself into debt for 10 years.

The science community disagrees with you.

Currents cuts to research at eu precedented. The withholding of allocated USAID money/ NIH/ CDC and Dept Energy funding have caused many planned health and STEM research projects to be cancelled or paused.

DC is post doc at leading STEM academic research center and all the post docs are worried about finding work now.

Also enrollment has not been dropping off at top colleges but they are impacted by the research cuts as well.

My DC is in the last year of her STEM PhD at probably the best program in the country and has no idea what she's going for her postdoc. Everything is frozen.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, the University of California, *not* all of academia.

Stanford University, MIT, Northwestern University, Cornell University, University of Notre Dame, Emory University, University of Washington, and North Carolina State University are among other institutions that have announced either full or partial hiring freezes. You should expect more to follow suit.

Anyone who knows anything about academe knows that this has been going on since the pandemic when enrollment continued its trend of falling off the cliff. A college education has become too expensive and the cost benefit analysis is not always in the favor of throwing yourself into debt for 10 years.

The "folk wisdom" on this is total bullshit. Even accounting for the huge differences between the average student who goes to college and one who does not, there is very good evidence from very good administrative data that going to college causes one's earnings to go up, even for the most marginal students.

See, e.g., https://www.nber.org/papers/w32296

Also notice in that paper that it's not just the individual rate of return to college students that is large. The "social" rate of return is large too. That's another way of saying that when people spread this folk wisdom to discourage people from going to college, they are making the world worse off, full stop.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, the University of California, *not* all of academia.

Stanford University, MIT, Northwestern University, Cornell University, University of Notre Dame, Emory University, University of Washington, and North Carolina State University are among other institutions that have announced either full or partial hiring freezes. You should expect more to follow suit.

Anyone who knows anything about academe knows that this has been going on since the pandemic when enrollment continued its trend of falling off the cliff. A college education has become too expensive and the cost benefit analysis is not always in the favor of throwing yourself into debt for 10 years.

The science community disagrees with you.

Currents cuts to research at eu precedented. The withholding of allocated USAID money/ NIH/ CDC and Dept Energy funding have caused many planned health and STEM research projects to be cancelled or paused.

DC is post doc at leading STEM academic research center and all the post docs are worried about finding work now.

Also enrollment has not been dropping off at top colleges but they are impacted by the research cuts as well.

Scientific Research is Getting Cut—and That Should Scare All Americans
The Trump administration’s cuts to federally funded STEM research is devastating current and future innovations by NEA Higher Ed members.
https://www.nea.org/nea-today/all-news-articles/scientific-research-getting-cut-and-should-scare-all-americans

US science is under threat ― now scientists are fighting back
Researchers are organizing protests and making their voices heard as Trump officials slash funding and lay off federal scientists.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-00661-8


NIH Budget Cuts Are a “Short-Sighted” Setback for US Science
An NIH policy to reduce funding for indirect costs to 15 percent, although temporarily blocked nationwide, sparks widespread concern and criticism among scientists.
https://www.the-scientist.com/nih-budget-cuts-are-a-short-sighted-setback-for-us-science-72707

Space scientists fearful as Trump administration targets science and mulls NASA cuts
Researchers worry an “extinction-level event” is coming for space science as the Trump administration looks to slash spending.
https://www.astronomy.com/space-exploration/space-scientists-fearful-as-trump-administration-targets-science-and-mulls-nasa-cuts/

These frustrated scientists want to leave the United States — do you? Take Nature’s poll
In the wake of the Trump administration’s funding freezes and job cuts, some researchers are planning their next move.

Some scientists in the United States have told Nature that they are considering leaving the country in the wake of widespread disruption to research brought in by the administration of US President Donald Trump. The researchers say they are looking for opportunities in Europe, Australia and Asia.
https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-025-00757-1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, the University of California, *not* all of academia.

Stanford University, MIT, Northwestern University, Cornell University, University of Notre Dame, Emory University, University of Washington, and North Carolina State University are among other institutions that have announced either full or partial hiring freezes. You should expect more to follow suit.

Anyone who knows anything about academe knows that this has been going on since the pandemic when enrollment continued its trend of falling off the cliff. A college education has become too expensive and the cost benefit analysis is not always in the favor of throwing yourself into debt for 10 years.

The science community disagrees with you.

Currents cuts to research at eu precedented. The withholding of allocated USAID money/ NIH/ CDC and Dept Energy funding have caused many planned health and STEM research projects to be cancelled or paused.

DC is post doc at leading STEM academic research center and all the post docs are worried about finding work now.

Also enrollment has not been dropping off at top colleges but they are impacted by the research cuts as well.

Anymore the only people that do postdocs are those that haven't been able to win the h-1b lottery in private industry. Most Americans don't do postdocs.

https://nexus.od.nih.gov/all/2023/02/14/share-your-thoughts-on-how-to-re-envision-nih-supported-postdoctoral-training/

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, the University of California, *not* all of academia.

Stanford University, MIT, Northwestern University, Cornell University, University of Notre Dame, Emory University, University of Washington, and North Carolina State University are among other institutions that have announced either full or partial hiring freezes. You should expect more to follow suit.

Anyone who knows anything about academe knows that this has been going on since the pandemic when enrollment continued its trend of falling off the cliff. A college education has become too expensive and the cost benefit analysis is not always in the favor of throwing yourself into debt for 10 years.

The science community disagrees with you.

Currents cuts to research at eu precedented. The withholding of allocated USAID money/ NIH/ CDC and Dept Energy funding have caused many planned health and STEM research projects to be cancelled or paused.

DC is post doc at leading STEM academic research center and all the post docs are worried about finding work now.

Also enrollment has not been dropping off at top colleges but they are impacted by the research cuts as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:So, the University of California, *not* all of academia.

Stanford University, MIT, Northwestern University, Cornell University, University of Notre Dame, Emory University, University of Washington, and North Carolina State University are among other institutions that have announced either full or partial hiring freezes. You should expect more to follow suit.

Anyone who knows anything about academe knows that this has been going on since the pandemic when enrollment continued its trend of falling off the cliff. A college education has become too expensive and the cost benefit analysis is not always in the favor of throwing yourself into debt for 10 years.

Anonymous wrote:PhD programs have been cut and/or drastically scaled back everywhere. No future professors coming into the pipeline. Bye bye higher education.

That’s a feature, not bug. It’s part of the evil tech bro plan (I.e., destroying academia and research). Is there an authoritarian regime who doesn’t go after the academics?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I'm fine with academia not getting any federal funds. Especially research, there is a pervasive attitude that Americans aren't interested, and they need H-1B. Let the foreigners pay for their own research and skills. Quit training our competition that is what I say.

I could see if the whole academic H-1b worked the way it was sold to us. EG We don't have specific skills, they bring in professors to teach us the skills. However, that isn't the way it works. The H-1b they bring in are horrible at transferring knowledge to Americans, they take lower wages then drive out Americans, and bring in more foreigners, "Because Americans aren't interested."

Bringing in Foreigners to teach us skills, only makes sense if we're actually interested in the skills. Who is going to study for twenty years to work in a cubicle for a median wage and long hours? Bus drivers and plumber's make more money and have more job security.

This is the definition of cutting off your nose to spite your face.

The current administration is questioning whether it is necessary for the U.S. taxpayer to fund various research projects, particularly at universities with large endowments who can easily afford to fund such projects on their own. Likewise, the current administration is freezing funds from going to universities that refuse to enforce their own rules against antisemitism or who are breaking federal law.

No university is entitled to Federal funds.

Nobody is entitled to anything, except for Social Security. But the United States should fund research universities, for many reasons.

Most of us know that. Are you Lutnick or Bessent trying to sell your "Mar-A-Largo Accord"?

But what "should" the U.S. Government fund? And even if it "should" fund a particular program, must it do so if the university fails to enforce its own rules against antisemitism or is breaking federal law?

According to this administration, tax cut for the rich and corporations.