Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like an excuse to not save for college

Genuinely curious - What is with the blind allegiance to college here? This board is so antsy and active. Honestly wondering why so many hopes are pinned to this and why worth seems to be measured by what college your kid goes to. "Pointy" kids? Even the terminology is dehumanizing. What is the allure?

Because attending college leads to much higher earnings over a lifetime. It opens many more doors. Heck, Admins/EAs are now required to have a College degree at many companies. Is it needed? Not always, but an EA with a college degree thinks on a different level than someone who just started working at 18 with no other goals/plans in life.

Also, unless your kid is interested in a Trade, it's a much more challenging path to a successful career without a college degree. Sure you can be a manager at a fast food joint, but you will work 75+ hours/week, many unscheduled and will still max out your salary at a lower level than someone with a college degree. I know---my kid worked fast food, the management tried to recruit them, most of them were only making $80-90K (in a place where $20/hr is minimum wage). My kid makes $80K 2 years post college in a MCOLA (not our home), in a position that literally only requires you "have a college degree, any college degree and we will train you". My kid works 45 hour weeks most of the time. I want my kid to have that opportunity over being overworked and having a ceiling on earnings.

My DS won the Thiel's award, and he did not go to college. He got accepted to Northwestern, Michigan, Duke, UNC, CMU, but he turned them down and went to San Diego to work for a start-up. He thinks college is a waste of time for him. I think he will turn out fine without going to college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We recently remodeled and both our plummer and electrician told us they're not recommending a trade for their kids. They want their kids to go to college. A good friends is a driver at UPS, who makes good money as a union member, is paying for his kid to attend college. The jobs don't offer flexibility or mobility and as a PP noted, are physically demanding. Everyone can't be in a trade. While there is demand now, that will taper. Look at what happened to all the folks who jumped into truck driving during Covid. Those jobs dried up as demand ebbed. Despite the current anti-education trend by some, note Barron is at NYU and Elon has a kid at Brown. So college for me, but not for thee.

This is exactly what they want. They want access to higher education to return to aristocrats only. It's much harder to gain authority over and govern an educated populace, far easier and ego-sustaining to exert power over the poor and ignorant who are dependent upon you and your resources and "generosity."
Look how many Republican politicians bash the "elite Ivy" leaguers and want to do away with the "liberal" university system; yet where did they all get their law degrees that got them where they are? Hypocrites.

very true.

My parents were blue collar workers, and always low/middle class. A college degree was my ticket into UMC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:FWIW: Jobs, Gates, Branson, Zuckerberg, Winfrey, Spielberg, Turner, Dell ... Geffen ... Wozniak ... did not graduate from college.

Most of that list does not persuade me toward the anti-college perspective.

.. given that some actually did go to college, just dropped out because they started a business that ended up earning billions.

Anonymous wrote:My takeaway as a parent reading this book was that there are so many other options besides 4-year college that can lead to really prestigious and satisfying careers. Starting in elementary school, the drum beat for college starts. I wish my kids had access and information about more of these paths so they could make an educated plan for what's best for their goals.

like what? And do those "satisfying careers" pay well enough to live a comfortable life in a hcol area like the DMV?

I'm not against trade school. I actually told DD to maybe look into some tech trade schools, and she said no. She is not academically minded, though she has above average stats, but she still wants to go to college and get a degree.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely, absolutely not.

I strongly, strongly believe even in the trades, a solid business understanding is critical. My view is even if they are working and licensed as a plumber, they need to build themselves up because the physical labor will be too much at a certain point and they need to own/run their own business to protect themselves, mentor other apprentices, etc. That requires education. It may not be in a dorm, but I would expect them to study at NOVA and GMU and get a business degree/accounting degree to understand the financials of their livelihood.

Really, college is also a critical social opportunity. In terms of networks, it is really important to build one with peers and those kids who are doing well are the ones you want to know/date/marry.

Not to mention that not every body is cut out for the trades to begin with. Some people are way too uncoordinated to trust with tools.

I'm 45. A lot of my high school friends went into the trades. They did better than I did financially, but a lot of them are broken down physically and I'm not.

Anonymous wrote:It's okay, OP.

You don't have to send your kids to college

yea.

DH was saying that not every kid should go to college. So, turned to him and said, "So, are you going to tell our kids to not go to college." To which he responded, "Well, no.".

LOL

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My takeaway as a parent reading this book was that there are so many other options besides 4-year college that can lead to really prestigious and satisfying careers. Starting in elementary school, the drum beat for college starts. I wish my kids had access and information about more of these paths so they could make an educated plan for what's best for their goals.

So give them information. It’s not hard. All the fake hand wringing.

And actually in elementary school, "career days" in elementary are all about the visible careers that kids understand, many of which do not require degrees. So it's not "all about college" from day one.

Anonymous wrote:Absolutely, absolutely not.

I strongly, strongly believe even in the trades, a solid business understanding is critical. My view is even if they are working and licensed as a plumber, they need to build themselves up because the physical labor will be too much at a certain point and they need to own/run their own business to protect themselves, mentor other apprentices, etc. That requires education. It may not be in a dorm, but I would expect them to study at NOVA and GMU and get a business degree/accounting degree to understand the financials of their livelihood.

Really, college is also a critical social opportunity. In terms of networks, it is really important to build one with peers and those kids who are doing well are the ones you want to know/date/marry.

Not to mention that not every body is cut out for the trades to begin with. Some people are way too uncoordinated to trust with tools.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uh, she still recommends college. Just maybe not spending life savings for BRAND college.

But honestly, BRAND college will still probably be worth it.

Actually, read the book. She does not recommend traditional "college" as it stands now.

NP. Who cares what she thinks? Oh yes some random lady thinks college is not worth it, I better listen to her! You need to be more discerning.

The only thing that needs to change is the COST of college. A college degree is ALWAYS valuable to those who want an education. Find an education you can afford. Nothing new here.

Of course it is valuable. But the way college is marketed, designed, and paid for -- and the ways kids contort themselves to be "attractive" applicants because, as it stands in many circles, college is seen as the ONLY path to success? -- that has to change.

It’s not the only path to success. Many business owners in my area (plumbing, contracting, HVaC) didn’t attend college and they’re happy as a clam.

But you’re coming to a forum with a college educated population, most whom have has saved meticulously in their 529s, and trying to tell us what? Send our kids to welding school? Come on.

You can be college-educated and a savvy saver while also not putting undue pressure on your children to contort themselves into an attractive statistic.

Anonymous wrote:My takeaway as a parent reading this book was that there are so many other options besides 4-year college that can lead to really prestigious and satisfying careers. Starting in elementary school, the drum beat for college starts. I wish my kids had access and information about more of these paths so they could make an educated plan for what's best for their goals.

So give them information. It’s not hard. All the fake hand wringing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Uh, she still recommends college. Just maybe not spending life savings for BRAND college.

But honestly, BRAND college will still probably be worth it.

Actually, read the book. She does not recommend traditional "college" as it stands now.

NP. Who cares what she thinks? Oh yes some random lady thinks college is not worth it, I better listen to her! You need to be more discerning.

The only thing that needs to change is the COST of college. A college degree is ALWAYS valuable to those who want an education. Find an education you can afford. Nothing new here.

Of course it is valuable. But the way college is marketed, designed, and paid for -- and the ways kids contort themselves to be "attractive" applicants because, as it stands in many circles, college is seen as the ONLY path to success? -- that has to change.

It’s not the only path to success. Many business owners in my area (plumbing, contracting, HVaC) didn’t attend college and they’re happy as a clam.

But you’re coming to a forum with a college educated population, most whom have has saved meticulously in their 529s, and trying to tell us what? Send our kids to welding school? Come on.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like an excuse to not save for college

Genuinely curious - What is with the blind allegiance to college here? This board is so antsy and active. Honestly wondering why so many hopes are pinned to this and why worth seems to be measured by what college your kid goes to. "Pointy" kids? Even the terminology is dehumanizing. What is the allure?

If your kids want to do something other than college: fine. Kids need to find their own way through life.

But, for kids who are actually bright and into learning, going to college is a unique chance to get together with other bright people who are into learning. It can be a wonderful experience in its own right.

If college wasn’t a great experience for you, sorry, but many of the rest of us did have a great experience in college and found that going to college did lead to gainful employment.

The issue isn't that college isn't worthwhile. The issue is that the admissions process is dehumanizing, soul-sucking, and turns parents into antsy overachievers categorizing their kids by whether they are "high stat," "pointy," etc, which really isn't the point of expansive learning and serves only to fuel anxiety.

You can lead a happy life in so many other ways -- and at colleges that accept most applicants! It's the blind allegiance to elite schools and the achievement culture it fosters that is deeply sad and corrosive.

My takeaway as a parent reading this book was that there are so many other options besides 4-year college that can lead to really prestigious and satisfying careers. Starting in elementary school, the drum beat for college starts. I wish my kids had access and information about more of these paths so they could make an educated plan for what's best for their goals.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like an excuse to not save for college

Genuinely curious - What is with the blind allegiance to college here? This board is so antsy and active. Honestly wondering why so many hopes are pinned to this and why worth seems to be measured by what college your kid goes to. "Pointy" kids? Even the terminology is dehumanizing. What is the allure?

If your kids want to do something other than college: fine. Kids need to find their own way through life.

But, for kids who are actually bright and into learning, going to college is a unique chance to get together with other bright people who are into learning. It can be a wonderful experience in its own right.

If college wasn’t a great experience for you, sorry, but many of the rest of us did have a great experience in college and found that going to college did lead to gainful employment.