Anonymous
Post 01/22/2025 16:59     Subject: I hate how fraternities brag that they are so great when they reject most students
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I was in a Frat at UVA and wife was at a Sorority. We will NEVER tell our DS to join a Fraternity.

We know that 80% of Frat kids and 70% of Sorority girls are losers in life. Either a bunch of followers with no spine, or so introverted that you need to pay for friends, or so worry about status that this becomes 50% of your life. Complete joke.

It is 2025. There is no need for Greek system to exist.


Or, even easier, just don't participate ! UVA isn't like W&M where 76% of the student body participates. My UVA kid spent four happy years there and never once stepped into a Greek house. It's only 26% participation there.


Whoa - 76% go Greek at W&M??
DP



Yes. It's the only institution that I'm aware of that posts the costs of participation in the Greek system on its admissions costs-of-attendance page. We toured but this was such a turn-off for DS that he never applied. Went to UVA where he never participated in the Greek system


Is it as competitive as UVA though? Coming from a family without a lot of money and connections, I don't really want my kid attending a school where either the fraternities are too exclusive or where he'd be left out with 75% in the greek system. The school I attended had what I would call extra fraternities where pretty much anyone could join if they wanted to. So some of them were competitive and others weren't. It was the best of both worlds. You could not join a fraternity if you didn't want to and fit in, but if you wanted to, there wasn't really a fear that no one would give you a bid.


At UVA about half of the frats are easy to get into, so yes there are places that will take most kids as long as they are not too awkward or bad with girls.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2025 16:47     Subject: I hate how fraternities brag that they are so great when they reject most students
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Of course joining a fraternity (or sorority) isn't a meritocracy. It's a popularity contest, based on appearance, connections, and money. Why would you think it's any different?

If your student doesn't want to be part of that system, don't go to a school where they are the dominant social life.


That’s meritocracy in today’s world. We’re just not used to thinking that way.


honestly, rush mirrors meritocracy in this country much closer than admissions
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2025 16:45     Subject: I hate how fraternities brag that they are so great when they reject most students
Anonymous wrote:Of course joining a fraternity (or sorority) isn't a meritocracy. It's a popularity contest, based on appearance, connections, and money. Why would you think it's any different?

If your student doesn't want to be part of that system, don't go to a school where they are the dominant social life.


That’s meritocracy in today’s world. We’re just not used to thinking that way.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2025 15:31     Subject: I hate how fraternities brag that they are so great when they reject most students
My little brother, who is 15 years younger, joined a fraternity at a Big Ten school few years back. He was talked into it by his rooommate his freshman year. After his sophomore year, he dropped out. There were several factors. First, he was a D1 athelete, which took up much of his time. Second, most of his friends were not members of the greek scene. Finally, it was too insular and every weekend looked the same.

He left on good terms. Back then they had hazing but because he was 6'3" 220 no one really wanted to mess with him.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2025 15:10     Subject: I hate how fraternities brag that they are so great when they reject most students
William and Mary is 25-30% greek depending on the year.
Anonymous
Post 01/22/2025 14:59     Subject: I hate how fraternities brag that they are so great when they reject most students
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Fraternities like to brag about how they are a great way to make friends and connections when most people will never end up in a single chapter. They are exclusionary. Like at UVA, half of the guys rushing never end up a bid anywhere, which is especially painful when UVA itself is extremely hard to get in. It is sick because rush isn't a meritocracy like sport tryouts are. There is no clear criteria of what makes someone a better candidate for a fraternity over another student. It is a process full of nepotism, and those who get in receive all the benefits on a college campus. And no one cares about making the process more fair.

And what makes me even more sick is that this forum is filled with former fraternity and sorority members who wants to bully and attack those who got rejected. So many people hate greek life for being elitist and bullies, and many members are proving those concerns right.


Almost every greek system has a "no cut" fraternity that any reasonably normal kid can get into.


People aren't bitter they couldn't get into a frat, they are bitter because they couldn't get into sigma chi or something along those lines.

TKE and TEP are pretty close to no cut frats if you look like you've touched grass once in your life.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2025 18:36     Subject: I hate how fraternities brag that they are so great when they reject most students
To OP: Please show one example where frsts post "they are so great". I'm not pro-frat. I've just never seen such a thing.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2025 18:05     Subject: I hate how fraternities brag that they are so great when they reject most students
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I was in a Frat at UVA and wife was at a Sorority. We will NEVER tell our DS to join a Fraternity.

We know that 80% of Frat kids and 70% of Sorority girls are losers in life. Either a bunch of followers with no spine, or so introverted that you need to pay for friends, or so worry about status that this becomes 50% of your life. Complete joke.

It is 2025. There is no need for Greek system to exist.


Or, even easier, just don't participate ! UVA isn't like W&M where 76% of the student body participates. My UVA kid spent four happy years there and never once stepped into a Greek house. It's only 26% participation there.


Whoa - 76% go Greek at W&M??
DP


I don't know what PP means by "participates" but according to google it's under 30%. My kid is at UVA and not in a fraternity so I truly have no personal investment in defending W&M but my impression when visiting both is that they had more or less the same number of students in frats/sororities but that they seemed to a much smaller part of the social life at William and Mary. Maybe I am wrong but we talked with a lot of students at both places.


It's Washington & Lee that is 76% Greek. Here are the schools in descending order. https://www.collegevine.com/faq/26068/which-colleges-have-the-highest-greek-life-participation#:~:text=1.,2.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2025 18:04     Subject: I hate how fraternities brag that they are so great when they reject most students
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You do realize this could happen at any party. Just stop it on the frats


well yes it can (and does) happen at any party. But statistically, it happens much more frequently in Frats. Greek life at many universities feeds this mentality, the guys think they are some type of "better than everyone else" because of the frat they are in. Manytimes these assaults are encouraged by the frat members, and they are known for having a history of this.

So sure, it can happen anywhere, but it is much more likely to happen when you put a group of guys together where the whole purpose is for them to host the best parties and be the most popular guys on campus.



I sort of remember this from a now infamous Rolling Stone article that was completely debunked as a hoax.


That is correct. The magazine and author had to pony up money to UVA
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2025 17:59     Subject: I hate how fraternities brag that they are so great when they reject most students
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:You do realize this could happen at any party. Just stop it on the frats


well yes it can (and does) happen at any party. But statistically, it happens much more frequently in Frats. Greek life at many universities feeds this mentality, the guys think they are some type of "better than everyone else" because of the frat they are in. Manytimes these assaults are encouraged by the frat members, and they are known for having a history of this.

So sure, it can happen anywhere, but it is much more likely to happen when you put a group of guys together where the whole purpose is for them to host the best parties and be the most popular guys on campus.



I sort of remember this from a now infamous Rolling Stone article that was completely debunked as a hoax.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2025 15:37     Subject: I hate how fraternities brag that they are so great when they reject most students
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I was in a Frat at UVA and wife was at a Sorority. We will NEVER tell our DS to join a Fraternity.

We know that 80% of Frat kids and 70% of Sorority girls are losers in life. Either a bunch of followers with no spine, or so introverted that you need to pay for friends, or so worry about status that this becomes 50% of your life. Complete joke.

It is 2025. There is no need for Greek system to exist.


Or, even easier, just don't participate ! UVA isn't like W&M where 76% of the student body participates. My UVA kid spent four happy years there and never once stepped into a Greek house. It's only 26% participation there.


Whoa - 76% go Greek at W&M??
DP


I don't know what PP means by "participates" but according to google it's under 30%. My kid is at UVA and not in a fraternity so I truly have no personal investment in defending W&M but my impression when visiting both is that they had more or less the same number of students in frats/sororities but that they seemed to a much smaller part of the social life at William and Mary. Maybe I am wrong but we talked with a lot of students at both places.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2025 15:13     Subject: I hate how fraternities brag that they are so great when they reject most students
Anonymous wrote:Fraternities like to brag about how they are a great way to make friends and connections when most people will never end up in a single chapter. They are exclusionary. Like at UVA, half of the guys rushing never end up a bid anywhere, which is especially painful when UVA itself is extremely hard to get in. It is sick because rush isn't a meritocracy like sport tryouts are. There is no clear criteria of what makes someone a better candidate for a fraternity over another student. It is a process full of nepotism, and those who get in receive all the benefits on a college campus. And no one cares about making the process more fair.

And what makes me even more sick is that this forum is filled with former fraternity and sorority members who wants to bully and attack those who got rejected. So many people hate greek life for being elitist and bullies, and many members are proving those concerns right.


I agree. I was in a sorority but now that I have kids I am not keen on my kids entering into that world. It is sad to see many kids get rejected and start their college years that way. I think Some colleges have rules that all kids rushing get placed somewhere even if at a fraternity or sorority not of their choosing?
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2025 15:04     Subject: I hate how fraternities brag that they are so great when they reject most students
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I was in a Frat at UVA and wife was at a Sorority. We will NEVER tell our DS to join a Fraternity.

We know that 80% of Frat kids and 70% of Sorority girls are losers in life. Either a bunch of followers with no spine, or so introverted that you need to pay for friends, or so worry about status that this becomes 50% of your life. Complete joke.

It is 2025. There is no need for Greek system to exist.


Or, even easier, just don't participate ! UVA isn't like W&M where 76% of the student body participates. My UVA kid spent four happy years there and never once stepped into a Greek house. It's only 26% participation there.


Whoa - 76% go Greek at W&M??
DP



Yes. It's the only institution that I'm aware of that posts the costs of participation in the Greek system on its admissions costs-of-attendance page. We toured but this was such a turn-off for DS that he never applied. Went to UVA where he never participated in the Greek system


Is it as competitive as UVA though? Coming from a family without a lot of money and connections, I don't really want my kid attending a school where either the fraternities are too exclusive or where he'd be left out with 75% in the greek system. The school I attended had what I would call extra fraternities where pretty much anyone could join if they wanted to. So some of them were competitive and others weren't. It was the best of both worlds. You could not join a fraternity if you didn't want to and fit in, but if you wanted to, there wasn't really a fear that no one would give you a bid.
Anonymous
Post 01/21/2025 15:04     Subject: I hate how fraternities brag that they are so great when they reject most students
This thread is pretty stupid. Sounds like a bunch of people who look for grounds for resentment, and maybe others who hate the idea that there are young men who forge bonds and measure success other than by attending the fraternity-free SLACs they want everyone else to covet.

Sorry, get over yourselves. You’re not all that, and you never were.