Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP—the number of APs (with good grades and test scores) is important relative to peers because colleges evaluate applicants vs kids from their school. I assume that’s why OP asked…

I agree that we should be asking about the need for APs freshman year, the AP “arms race” in general, kids taking AP classes to get the GPA bump while still having the option to skip the exam, and overall quality of instruction. These speak more to the quality vs quantity and are outside the scope of OP’s question.

Take that up with University Admissions. When your graduating class is 500-600 students in a district of 10,000-12,000 seniors, and your state flagship gets 60K applications for 5Kish spots, families are going to do whatever to get ahead. APs are one of those ways.

1K ish spots for the local district.

I’m the PP who mentioned the AP arms race—I totally agree that this is an issue for university admissions. UMD has always been competitive but I don’t recall (maybe I’ve forgotten?) the AP hysteria when I was in HS amongst kids who wanted UMD.

Great, allow us to disabuse you of the idea that college admissions today is anything like it was when you were a HS kid.

https://irpa.umd.edu/CampusCounts/Admissions/apps_ug.pdf

No need for snark. I didn’t mean to imply UMD wasn’t competitive or that kids don’t need to take APs to be in range for admissions these days. I was asking when it became necessary to take a ton of APs for admissions to very good and top schools.

Btw—This is a very helpful document so thank you for sharing.

How can the average admitted student GPA be 4.45? They get some weighting off AP classes for sure but so much that the average kid is at 4.45?

A 4.45 today is like a 3.2 from 30 years ago.

you are screwed if you have 4.45 really - over 50% students at mcps have 4.5.

Please provide source. Most recent source I’ve seen has it at 11%.

11% at MCPS
16% at rich schools


4.0+ is 31% MCPS, 50% at rich schools.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/woottonhs/uploadedfiles/counseling/school_profile__wootton_high_2017-2018.pdf

That is weighted.

Yes, weighted is 11% in MCPS. Even wealth schools don’t hit 50% when weighted.

try Churchill - https://drive.google.com/file/d/1-MevGENlVsQgpIrCb0kwKYEw2a4tewQp/view

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP—the number of APs (with good grades and test scores) is important relative to peers because colleges evaluate applicants vs kids from their school. I assume that’s why OP asked…

I agree that we should be asking about the need for APs freshman year, the AP “arms race” in general, kids taking AP classes to get the GPA bump while still having the option to skip the exam, and overall quality of instruction. These speak more to the quality vs quantity and are outside the scope of OP’s question.

Take that up with University Admissions. When your graduating class is 500-600 students in a district of 10,000-12,000 seniors, and your state flagship gets 60K applications for 5Kish spots, families are going to do whatever to get ahead. APs are one of those ways.

1K ish spots for the local district.

I’m the PP who mentioned the AP arms race—I totally agree that this is an issue for university admissions. UMD has always been competitive but I don’t recall (maybe I’ve forgotten?) the AP hysteria when I was in HS amongst kids who wanted UMD.

Great, allow us to disabuse you of the idea that college admissions today is anything like it was when you were a HS kid.

https://irpa.umd.edu/CampusCounts/Admissions/apps_ug.pdf

No need for snark. I didn’t mean to imply UMD wasn’t competitive or that kids don’t need to take APs to be in range for admissions these days. I was asking when it became necessary to take a ton of APs for admissions to very good and top schools.

Btw—This is a very helpful document so thank you for sharing.

How can the average admitted student GPA be 4.45? They get some weighting off AP classes for sure but so much that the average kid is at 4.45?

A 4.45 today is like a 3.2 from 30 years ago.

you are screwed if you have 4.45 really - over 50% students at mcps have 4.5.

Please provide source. Most recent source I’ve seen has it at 11%.

11% at MCPS
16% at rich schools


4.0+ is 31% MCPS, 50% at rich schools.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/woottonhs/uploadedfiles/counseling/school_profile__wootton_high_2017-2018.pdf

That is weighted.

Yes, weighted is 11% in MCPS. Even wealth schools don’t hit 50% when weighted.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP—the number of APs (with good grades and test scores) is important relative to peers because colleges evaluate applicants vs kids from their school. I assume that’s why OP asked…

I agree that we should be asking about the need for APs freshman year, the AP “arms race” in general, kids taking AP classes to get the GPA bump while still having the option to skip the exam, and overall quality of instruction. These speak more to the quality vs quantity and are outside the scope of OP’s question.

Take that up with University Admissions. When your graduating class is 500-600 students in a district of 10,000-12,000 seniors, and your state flagship gets 60K applications for 5Kish spots, families are going to do whatever to get ahead. APs are one of those ways.

1K ish spots for the local district.

I’m the PP who mentioned the AP arms race—I totally agree that this is an issue for university admissions. UMD has always been competitive but I don’t recall (maybe I’ve forgotten?) the AP hysteria when I was in HS amongst kids who wanted UMD.

Great, allow us to disabuse you of the idea that college admissions today is anything like it was when you were a HS kid.

https://irpa.umd.edu/CampusCounts/Admissions/apps_ug.pdf

No need for snark. I didn’t mean to imply UMD wasn’t competitive or that kids don’t need to take APs to be in range for admissions these days. I was asking when it became necessary to take a ton of APs for admissions to very good and top schools.

Btw—This is a very helpful document so thank you for sharing.

How can the average admitted student GPA be 4.45? They get some weighting off AP classes for sure but so much that the average kid is at 4.45?

A 4.45 today is like a 3.2 from 30 years ago.

you are screwed if you have 4.45 really - over 50% students at mcps have 4.5.

Please provide source. Most recent source I’ve seen has it at 11%.

11% at MCPS
16% at rich schools


4.0+ is 31% MCPS, 50% at rich schools.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/woottonhs/uploadedfiles/counseling/school_profile__wootton_high_2017-2018.pdf

That is weighted.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP—the number of APs (with good grades and test scores) is important relative to peers because colleges evaluate applicants vs kids from their school. I assume that’s why OP asked…

I agree that we should be asking about the need for APs freshman year, the AP “arms race” in general, kids taking AP classes to get the GPA bump while still having the option to skip the exam, and overall quality of instruction. These speak more to the quality vs quantity and are outside the scope of OP’s question.

Take that up with University Admissions. When your graduating class is 500-600 students in a district of 10,000-12,000 seniors, and your state flagship gets 60K applications for 5Kish spots, families are going to do whatever to get ahead. APs are one of those ways.

1K ish spots for the local district.

I’m the PP who mentioned the AP arms race—I totally agree that this is an issue for university admissions. UMD has always been competitive but I don’t recall (maybe I’ve forgotten?) the AP hysteria when I was in HS amongst kids who wanted UMD.

Great, allow us to disabuse you of the idea that college admissions today is anything like it was when you were a HS kid.

https://irpa.umd.edu/CampusCounts/Admissions/apps_ug.pdf

No need for snark. I didn’t mean to imply UMD wasn’t competitive or that kids don’t need to take APs to be in range for admissions these days. I was asking when it became necessary to take a ton of APs for admissions to very good and top schools.

Btw—This is a very helpful document so thank you for sharing.

How can the average admitted student GPA be 4.45? They get some weighting off AP classes for sure but so much that the average kid is at 4.45?

A 4.45 today is like a 3.2 from 30 years ago.

you are screwed if you have 4.45 really - over 50% students at mcps have 4.5.

Please provide source. Most recent source I’ve seen has it at 11%.

11% at MCPS
16% at rich schools


4.0+ is 31% MCPS, 50% at rich schools.

https://www.montgomeryschoolsmd.org/siteassets/schools/high-schools/r-w/woottonhs/uploadedfiles/counseling/school_profile__wootton_high_2017-2018.pdf

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP—the number of APs (with good grades and test scores) is important relative to peers because colleges evaluate applicants vs kids from their school. I assume that’s why OP asked…

I agree that we should be asking about the need for APs freshman year, the AP “arms race” in general, kids taking AP classes to get the GPA bump while still having the option to skip the exam, and overall quality of instruction. These speak more to the quality vs quantity and are outside the scope of OP’s question.

Take that up with University Admissions. When your graduating class is 500-600 students in a district of 10,000-12,000 seniors, and your state flagship gets 60K applications for 5Kish spots, families are going to do whatever to get ahead. APs are one of those ways.

1K ish spots for the local district.

I’m the PP who mentioned the AP arms race—I totally agree that this is an issue for university admissions. UMD has always been competitive but I don’t recall (maybe I’ve forgotten?) the AP hysteria when I was in HS amongst kids who wanted UMD.

Great, allow us to disabuse you of the idea that college admissions today is anything like it was when you were a HS kid.

https://irpa.umd.edu/CampusCounts/Admissions/apps_ug.pdf

No need for snark. I didn’t mean to imply UMD wasn’t competitive or that kids don’t need to take APs to be in range for admissions these days. I was asking when it became necessary to take a ton of APs for admissions to very good and top schools.

Btw—This is a very helpful document so thank you for sharing.

How can the average admitted student GPA be 4.45? They get some weighting off AP classes for sure but so much that the average kid is at 4.45?

A 4.45 today is like a 3.2 from 30 years ago.

you are screwed if you have 4.45 really - over 50% students at mcps have 4.5.

Please provide source. Most recent source I’ve seen has it at 11%.

Yeah - they are wrong. They’re probably just looking at the school profile for one of the most affluent high schools in the county and misinterpreting it as a county-wide statistic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP—the number of APs (with good grades and test scores) is important relative to peers because colleges evaluate applicants vs kids from their school. I assume that’s why OP asked…

I agree that we should be asking about the need for APs freshman year, the AP “arms race” in general, kids taking AP classes to get the GPA bump while still having the option to skip the exam, and overall quality of instruction. These speak more to the quality vs quantity and are outside the scope of OP’s question.

Take that up with University Admissions. When your graduating class is 500-600 students in a district of 10,000-12,000 seniors, and your state flagship gets 60K applications for 5Kish spots, families are going to do whatever to get ahead. APs are one of those ways.

1K ish spots for the local district.

I’m the PP who mentioned the AP arms race—I totally agree that this is an issue for university admissions. UMD has always been competitive but I don’t recall (maybe I’ve forgotten?) the AP hysteria when I was in HS amongst kids who wanted UMD.

Great, allow us to disabuse you of the idea that college admissions today is anything like it was when you were a HS kid.

https://irpa.umd.edu/CampusCounts/Admissions/apps_ug.pdf

No need for snark. I didn’t mean to imply UMD wasn’t competitive or that kids don’t need to take APs to be in range for admissions these days. I was asking when it became necessary to take a ton of APs for admissions to very good and top schools.

Btw—This is a very helpful document so thank you for sharing.

How can the average admitted student GPA be 4.45? They get some weighting off AP classes for sure but so much that the average kid is at 4.45?

A 4.45 today is like a 3.2 from 30 years ago.

you are screwed if you have 4.45 really - over 50% students at mcps have 4.5.

Please provide source. Most recent source I’ve seen has it at 11%.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent and college counselor working with students applying to top 20 schools, I advise that taking the AP exam isn't always necessary, especially if your child isn’t interested in earning college credit. The added stress might not be worth it. Colleges primarily value the rigor of the AP course and the weighted GPA it provides. However, achieving an 'A' in the class itself can significantly strengthen their application. And I have plenty of examples of acceptances to prove this.

There is zero downside to taking the AP exam. You don’t like the score you can expunge it. If the added stress to take an exam is not worth it, then what are you going to do in college.

If there’s no score for the AP class it will be noted.

so you are saying - even for kids who wants to study psychology in college, it's better to take AP Calc BC exam - lol

100% yes. If the kid who wants to study psychology took the AP calculus BC class, they should sit for the AP exam. Otherwise the admission officers will be assuming the worst, eg no passing score. That’s why a lot of AP classes require the student to take the exam. You can demonstrate rigor with classes taken, grades and exam scores, preferably all.

+1 And the AP exam creates a standardization across public and private schools. Different teachers at different schools grade differently, but the AP exam is graded externally across schools.

That’s why private schools don’t like APs. They can pontificate about how great their unique curriculums are, but at the end of the day they don’t like that a child in McPS can also take and excel at 15 APs and get into the same colleges as the private school kid without paying 40k a year.

This is false. I have one kid in MCPS and one in private. I don't care that my kid in private will take fewer AP classes than my younger child (if they stay in MCPS for HS). I don't care because I recognize that 1. the college AO will get a sheet from our school showing that my DD took the highest level of rigor available to her and the AO will evaluate her against others from the same school, 2. I value the independence of the school to offer courses that make sense for the community and work with the schedule (most privates have a rotating block schedule which we love, but it does have implications for AP classes), and 3. I am not sold on the APs classes prepare you best for college theory; two of DD's toughest classes were "regular" honors classes and one of her APs was honestly a joke (Stat). Also, PP is not taking into account the reality that most private parents are making that choice because they want a different overall experience than what they could expect at MCPS--a factor that goes well beyond the number of APs a school offers.

That said, if everyone at your public takes 15 (or whatever) APs, your kid had best do the same.

Why? Not every kid in private is taking the most advance courses or course load. HS can still offer AP courses while having a block schedule (my niece goes to a school that does just this). The sheet about rigorous and profile of HS is sent from all HS both public and private.

As folks keep saying do what is right for your kid and stop trying to compare public and private.

Pp you are replying to. When I said if all the kids on your public are taking X number of APs, your kid should too, that was in response to the OPs question about what kids need to do AP wise to be in the top 20% of the class. Of course your kid should do what makes the best sense for them and if that’s all APs, great. If it’s a mix, great. If it’s none, great. It’s is however important to understand what all of that means re college admissions.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP—the number of APs (with good grades and test scores) is important relative to peers because colleges evaluate applicants vs kids from their school. I assume that’s why OP asked…

I agree that we should be asking about the need for APs freshman year, the AP “arms race” in general, kids taking AP classes to get the GPA bump while still having the option to skip the exam, and overall quality of instruction. These speak more to the quality vs quantity and are outside the scope of OP’s question.

Take that up with University Admissions. When your graduating class is 500-600 students in a district of 10,000-12,000 seniors, and your state flagship gets 60K applications for 5Kish spots, families are going to do whatever to get ahead. APs are one of those ways.

1K ish spots for the local district.

I’m the PP who mentioned the AP arms race—I totally agree that this is an issue for university admissions. UMD has always been competitive but I don’t recall (maybe I’ve forgotten?) the AP hysteria when I was in HS amongst kids who wanted UMD.

Great, allow us to disabuse you of the idea that college admissions today is anything like it was when you were a HS kid.

https://irpa.umd.edu/CampusCounts/Admissions/apps_ug.pdf

No need for snark. I didn’t mean to imply UMD wasn’t competitive or that kids don’t need to take APs to be in range for admissions these days. I was asking when it became necessary to take a ton of APs for admissions to very good and top schools.

Btw—This is a very helpful document so thank you for sharing.

How can the average admitted student GPA be 4.45? They get some weighting off AP classes for sure but so much that the average kid is at 4.45?

A 4.45 today is like a 3.2 from 30 years ago.

you are screwed if you have 4.45 really - over 50% students at mcps have 4.5.

And that's exactly why AP exams are useful. It tells you that even if a kid has a 4.5 GPA, if they're getting all 3s on independently graded exms, they're not the brightest of their school.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP—the number of APs (with good grades and test scores) is important relative to peers because colleges evaluate applicants vs kids from their school. I assume that’s why OP asked…

I agree that we should be asking about the need for APs freshman year, the AP “arms race” in general, kids taking AP classes to get the GPA bump while still having the option to skip the exam, and overall quality of instruction. These speak more to the quality vs quantity and are outside the scope of OP’s question.

Take that up with University Admissions. When your graduating class is 500-600 students in a district of 10,000-12,000 seniors, and your state flagship gets 60K applications for 5Kish spots, families are going to do whatever to get ahead. APs are one of those ways.

1K ish spots for the local district.

I’m the PP who mentioned the AP arms race—I totally agree that this is an issue for university admissions. UMD has always been competitive but I don’t recall (maybe I’ve forgotten?) the AP hysteria when I was in HS amongst kids who wanted UMD.

Great, allow us to disabuse you of the idea that college admissions today is anything like it was when you were a HS kid.

https://irpa.umd.edu/CampusCounts/Admissions/apps_ug.pdf

No need for snark. I didn’t mean to imply UMD wasn’t competitive or that kids don’t need to take APs to be in range for admissions these days. I was asking when it became necessary to take a ton of APs for admissions to very good and top schools.

Btw—This is a very helpful document so thank you for sharing.

How can the average admitted student GPA be 4.45? They get some weighting off AP classes for sure but so much that the average kid is at 4.45?

Honors/AP/AL adds
0.7 to 0.83 to GPA depending on choice of electives.

MCPS average SAT is almost 1 full std deviation than national. Rich schools are even higher. This kids have high grades too.

The bolded is the part the folks hate to hear because it solo dies the fact that kids are learning.

‘Solidifies’

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP—the number of APs (with good grades and test scores) is important relative to peers because colleges evaluate applicants vs kids from their school. I assume that’s why OP asked…

I agree that we should be asking about the need for APs freshman year, the AP “arms race” in general, kids taking AP classes to get the GPA bump while still having the option to skip the exam, and overall quality of instruction. These speak more to the quality vs quantity and are outside the scope of OP’s question.

Take that up with University Admissions. When your graduating class is 500-600 students in a district of 10,000-12,000 seniors, and your state flagship gets 60K applications for 5Kish spots, families are going to do whatever to get ahead. APs are one of those ways.

1K ish spots for the local district.

I’m the PP who mentioned the AP arms race—I totally agree that this is an issue for university admissions. UMD has always been competitive but I don’t recall (maybe I’ve forgotten?) the AP hysteria when I was in HS amongst kids who wanted UMD.

Great, allow us to disabuse you of the idea that college admissions today is anything like it was when you were a HS kid.

https://irpa.umd.edu/CampusCounts/Admissions/apps_ug.pdf

No need for snark. I didn’t mean to imply UMD wasn’t competitive or that kids don’t need to take APs to be in range for admissions these days. I was asking when it became necessary to take a ton of APs for admissions to very good and top schools.

Btw—This is a very helpful document so thank you for sharing.

How can the average admitted student GPA be 4.45? They get some weighting off AP classes for sure but so much that the average kid is at 4.45?

Honors/AP/AL adds
0.7 to 0.83 to GPA depending on choice of electives.

MCPS average SAT is almost 1 full std deviation than national. Rich schools are even higher. This kids have high grades too.

The bolded is the part the folks hate to hear because it solo dies the fact that kids are learning.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent and college counselor working with students applying to top 20 schools, I advise that taking the AP exam isn't always necessary, especially if your child isn’t interested in earning college credit. The added stress might not be worth it. Colleges primarily value the rigor of the AP course and the weighted GPA it provides. However, achieving an 'A' in the class itself can significantly strengthen their application. And I have plenty of examples of acceptances to prove this.

There is zero downside to taking the AP exam. You don’t like the score you can expunge it. If the added stress to take an exam is not worth it, then what are you going to do in college.

If there’s no score for the AP class it will be noted.

so you are saying - even for kids who wants to study psychology in college, it's better to take AP Calc BC exam - lol

100% yes. If the kid who wants to study psychology took the AP calculus BC class, they should sit for the AP exam. Otherwise the admission officers will be assuming the worst, eg no passing score. That’s why a lot of AP classes require the student to take the exam. You can demonstrate rigor with classes taken, grades and exam scores, preferably all.

+1 And the AP exam creates a standardization across public and private schools. Different teachers at different schools grade differently, but the AP exam is graded externally across schools.

That’s why private schools don’t like APs. They can pontificate about how great their unique curriculums are, but at the end of the day they don’t like that a child in McPS can also take and excel at 15 APs and get into the same colleges as the private school kid without paying 40k a year.

This is false. I have one kid in MCPS and one in private. I don't care that my kid in private will take fewer AP classes than my younger child (if they stay in MCPS for HS). I don't care because I recognize that 1. the college AO will get a sheet from our school showing that my DD took the highest level of rigor available to her and the AO will evaluate her against others from the same school, 2. I value the independence of the school to offer courses that make sense for the community and work with the schedule (most privates have a rotating block schedule which we love, but it does have implications for AP classes), and 3. I am not sold on the APs classes prepare you best for college theory; two of DD's toughest classes were "regular" honors classes and one of her APs was honestly a joke (Stat). Also, PP is not taking into account the reality that most private parents are making that choice because they want a different overall experience than what they could expect at MCPS--a factor that goes well beyond the number of APs a school offers.

That said, if everyone at your public takes 15 (or whatever) APs, your kid had best do the same.

Why? Not every kid in private is taking the most advance courses or course load. HS can still offer AP courses while having a block schedule (my niece goes to a school that does just this). The sheet about rigorous and profile of HS is sent from all HS both public and private.

As folks keep saying do what is right for your kid and stop trying to compare public and private.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP—the number of APs (with good grades and test scores) is important relative to peers because colleges evaluate applicants vs kids from their school. I assume that’s why OP asked…

I agree that we should be asking about the need for APs freshman year, the AP “arms race” in general, kids taking AP classes to get the GPA bump while still having the option to skip the exam, and overall quality of instruction. These speak more to the quality vs quantity and are outside the scope of OP’s question.

Take that up with University Admissions. When your graduating class is 500-600 students in a district of 10,000-12,000 seniors, and your state flagship gets 60K applications for 5Kish spots, families are going to do whatever to get ahead. APs are one of those ways.

1K ish spots for the local district.

I’m the PP who mentioned the AP arms race—I totally agree that this is an issue for university admissions. UMD has always been competitive but I don’t recall (maybe I’ve forgotten?) the AP hysteria when I was in HS amongst kids who wanted UMD.

Great, allow us to disabuse you of the idea that college admissions today is anything like it was when you were a HS kid.

https://irpa.umd.edu/CampusCounts/Admissions/apps_ug.pdf

No need for snark. I didn’t mean to imply UMD wasn’t competitive or that kids don’t need to take APs to be in range for admissions these days. I was asking when it became necessary to take a ton of APs for admissions to very good and top schools.

Btw—This is a very helpful document so thank you for sharing.

How can the average admitted student GPA be 4.45? They get some weighting off AP classes for sure but so much that the average kid is at 4.45?

Honors/AP/AL adds
0.7 to 0.83 to GPA depending on choice of electives.

MCPS average SAT is almost 1 full std deviation than national. Rich schools are even higher. This kids have high grades too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:As a parent and college counselor working with students applying to top 20 schools, I advise that taking the AP exam isn't always necessary, especially if your child isn’t interested in earning college credit. The added stress might not be worth it. Colleges primarily value the rigor of the AP course and the weighted GPA it provides. However, achieving an 'A' in the class itself can significantly strengthen their application. And I have plenty of examples of acceptances to prove this.

There is zero downside to taking the AP exam. You don’t like the score you can expunge it. If the added stress to take an exam is not worth it, then what are you going to do in college.

If there’s no score for the AP class it will be noted.

so you are saying - even for kids who wants to study psychology in college, it's better to take AP Calc BC exam - lol

100% yes. If the kid who wants to study psychology took the AP calculus BC class, they should sit for the AP exam. Otherwise the admission officers will be assuming the worst, eg no passing score. That’s why a lot of AP classes require the student to take the exam. You can demonstrate rigor with classes taken, grades and exam scores, preferably all.

+1 And the AP exam creates a standardization across public and private schools. Different teachers at different schools grade differently, but the AP exam is graded externally across schools.

That’s why private schools don’t like APs. They can pontificate about how great their unique curriculums are, but at the end of the day they don’t like that a child in McPS can also take and excel at 15 APs and get into the same colleges as the private school kid without paying 40k a year.

This is false. I have one kid in MCPS and one in private. I don't care that my kid in private will take fewer AP classes than my younger child (if they stay in MCPS for HS). I don't care because I recognize that 1. the college AO will get a sheet from our school showing that my DD took the highest level of rigor available to her and the AO will evaluate her against others from the same school, 2. I value the independence of the school to offer courses that make sense for the community and work with the schedule (most privates have a rotating block schedule which we love, but it does have implications for AP classes), and 3. I am not sold on the APs classes prepare you best for college theory; two of DD's toughest classes were "regular" honors classes and one of her APs was honestly a joke (Stat). Also, PP is not taking into account the reality that most private parents are making that choice because they want a different overall experience than what they could expect at MCPS--a factor that goes well beyond the number of APs a school offers.

That said, if everyone at your public takes 15 (or whatever) APs, your kid had best do the same.

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Anonymous wrote:NP—the number of APs (with good grades and test scores) is important relative to peers because colleges evaluate applicants vs kids from their school. I assume that’s why OP asked…

I agree that we should be asking about the need for APs freshman year, the AP “arms race” in general, kids taking AP classes to get the GPA bump while still having the option to skip the exam, and overall quality of instruction. These speak more to the quality vs quantity and are outside the scope of OP’s question.

Take that up with University Admissions. When your graduating class is 500-600 students in a district of 10,000-12,000 seniors, and your state flagship gets 60K applications for 5Kish spots, families are going to do whatever to get ahead. APs are one of those ways.

1K ish spots for the local district.

I’m the PP who mentioned the AP arms race—I totally agree that this is an issue for university admissions. UMD has always been competitive but I don’t recall (maybe I’ve forgotten?) the AP hysteria when I was in HS amongst kids who wanted UMD.

Great, allow us to disabuse you of the idea that college admissions today is anything like it was when you were a HS kid.

https://irpa.umd.edu/CampusCounts/Admissions/apps_ug.pdf

No need for snark. I didn’t mean to imply UMD wasn’t competitive or that kids don’t need to take APs to be in range for admissions these days. I was asking when it became necessary to take a ton of APs for admissions to very good and top schools.

Btw—This is a very helpful document so thank you for sharing.

How can the average admitted student GPA be 4.45? They get some weighting off AP classes for sure but so much that the average kid is at 4.45?

A 4.45 today is like a 3.2 from 30 years ago.

you are screwed if you have 4.45 really - over 50% students at mcps have 4.5.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:NP—the number of APs (with good grades and test scores) is important relative to peers because colleges evaluate applicants vs kids from their school. I assume that’s why OP asked…

I agree that we should be asking about the need for APs freshman year, the AP “arms race” in general, kids taking AP classes to get the GPA bump while still having the option to skip the exam, and overall quality of instruction. These speak more to the quality vs quantity and are outside the scope of OP’s question.

Take that up with University Admissions. When your graduating class is 500-600 students in a district of 10,000-12,000 seniors, and your state flagship gets 60K applications for 5Kish spots, families are going to do whatever to get ahead. APs are one of those ways.

1K ish spots for the local district.

I’m the PP who mentioned the AP arms race—I totally agree that this is an issue for university admissions. UMD has always been competitive but I don’t recall (maybe I’ve forgotten?) the AP hysteria when I was in HS amongst kids who wanted UMD.

Great, allow us to disabuse you of the idea that college admissions today is anything like it was when you were a HS kid.

https://irpa.umd.edu/CampusCounts/Admissions/apps_ug.pdf

No need for snark. I didn’t mean to imply UMD wasn’t competitive or that kids don’t need to take APs to be in range for admissions these days. I was asking when it became necessary to take a ton of APs for admissions to very good and top schools.

Btw—This is a very helpful document so thank you for sharing.

How can the average admitted student GPA be 4.45? They get some weighting off AP classes for sure but so much that the average kid is at 4.45?

Take enough AP and Honors courses and get mostly A's and B's.