Anonymous wrote:How much of the burnout is a result of parents who push too hard and care too much?

Anecdotally from this board (I haven’t validated), it seems like NOVA, NCAP, and other highly competitive clubs have their swimmers in the water more at younger ages. If the parents are pushing this and it’s not driven by the kids, then yeah, I imagine parents contribute to burn out.
I’m not debating the right amount of practice for what age group, but if you’re practicing at a high intensity (frequency and duration) from a relatively young age and especially if you stop seeing the improvement, then I imagine that also contributes to burn out. Again, I think this looks different for every swimmer and there’s no right or wrong answer. But bottom line, NOVA and NCAP seem to have their younger kids practice more and therefore they have the strongest kids and then as a result, attract strong kids from other clubs. And then all those fast kids train together and push each other and on and on.

That would make sense. They only have one pool and training site, that being Stone Ridge, so any swimmer they accept into the program has to be good enough to make what I imagine is a much more stringent cut right from the start. The RMSC's and NCAP's of the world are so big and have so many training sites that, yes, at the top they are phenomenal, but they are also really the only place a mid-level swimmer or swimmer who just enjoys the sport but does not make high level cuts can find a space for themselves, and there is nothing wrong with that.

Any kid who is willing to put in the time and loves the sport deserves a place and team to join. By definition huge swim clubs fulfill the role of carrying these kids and finding space for them in one of their groups, and they should. Sadly, ASA had to cut a bunch of kids when they lost their second training site at the Bolger Center, and I'm sure it's the last thing they wanted to do, but they really could only carry and develop their fastest kids moving forward. What choice did they have really. Can't blame them. We've tried to refer family friends with swimmers to ASA and they just could not take them in with only that one training site.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, looking at the meet referenced and have to say NOVA impresses me, it is a smaller team without sites all over like NCAP and the bigger local teams, smaller city and some massive talent. The 10 year old girls are super fast and also the 12 year old boys. What are they doing there? Very impressive.

They have 1100 swimmers
https://swimmerstats.com/team.php?code=VANOVA

NCAP has 2500, RMSC has 1900, while LIAC (another team at the MAAGS meet) has about 670.

I’d say that makes RMSC the more impressive team around here then, not to mention ASA

Look at the results of NOVA Senior Classic. ASA has some serious talents especially in female side but some very fast boys too. They are like a quarter of size of NCAP and one third of RMSC. A very impressive group of swimmers at Stone Ridge pool.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, looking at the meet referenced and have to say NOVA impresses me, it is a smaller team without sites all over like NCAP and the bigger local teams, smaller city and some massive talent. The 10 year old girls are super fast and also the 12 year old boys. What are they doing there? Very impressive.

They have 1100 swimmers
https://swimmerstats.com/team.php?code=VANOVA

NCAP has 2500, RMSC has 1900, while LIAC (another team at the MAAGS meet) has about 670.

I’d say that makes RMSC the more impressive team around here then, not to mention ASA

Anonymous wrote:How much of the burnout is a result of parents who push too hard and care too much?

Honestly, it’s probably a combo. Parents have a kid that started swimming year round at age 7 and was great at 9-10 so they start getting overly invested in the idea their kid will be a superstar. If their kid starts getting bypassed when they are 11-12 they start pushing harder, etc. and eventually that kid just leaves the sport because they derive no joy from it anymore, both because of their parents acting like crazy people and because they aren’t achieving the results they had when they were really young. Unfortunately I’ve seen this play out before and it’s hard to watch.

Anonymous wrote:If you've ever been down to Richmond for their meets you would be blown away by their facilities. Different market obviously, and they have it absolutely cornered. If you are a swimmer in that part of the world they will be your only destination.

Easier to pick-up real estate down there of course, but at their one location (an old Macy's converted into a dedicated NOVA facility) They have their own 50 meter long course pool, drylands right there on site, team store, and so on. I know RMSC has Rockville with a long course pool, but even they have to share that with all of the other things Montgomery County does there.

It would be hard to pull off what they have resource wise up here - but imagine the beauty and simplicity of just dropping your swimmer off at one singular building for everything they need, including meets since they can host meets of any size right there at home! Even better, they can practice anytime they want - it's their facility. We love it here and all, but man they have it figured out down there!

We crashed a Virginia Swimming clinic a year or so ago, and I was in love with that facility. So smart, especially with the amount of malls going under these days. But Richmond traffic isn’t nothing, and my friends who live in Glen Allen have said the commute to the primary NOVA site is un-doable. Also, the young kids practice a lot more than the young kids at NCAP-Burke and NCAP-West. They have a set of 10 year old girls who are blowing the roof off the top 20 in the U.S. They always seem happy to train and be together, so NOVA may also just have the right kids in the right age groups and the right times.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow, looking at the meet referenced and have to say NOVA impresses me, it is a smaller team without sites all over like NCAP and the bigger local teams, smaller city and some massive talent. The 10 year old girls are super fast and also the 12 year old boys. What are they doing there? Very impressive.

They have 1100 swimmers
https://swimmerstats.com/team.php?code=VANOVA

NCAP has 2500, RMSC has 1900, while LIAC (another team at the MAAGS meet) has about 670.

Anonymous wrote:Wow, looking at the meet referenced and have to say NOVA impresses me, it is a smaller team without sites all over like NCAP and the bigger local teams, smaller city and some massive talent. The 10 year old girls are super fast and also the 12 year old boys. What are they doing there? Very impressive.

They have 1100 swimmers
https://swimmerstats.com/team.php?code=VANOVA

How much of the burnout is a result of parents who push too hard and care too much?

Anonymous wrote:I have a very small sample size -
so take with a grain of salt - but NOVA has a similar reputation in terms of burn out/intensity as NCAP. These top programs likely aren’t doing anything magical; they’re practicing more than other clubs and they attract the strongest kids and coaches. It all adds up to strong cohorts and fast kids.

+1, and the burnout at these clubs is sometimes just not being able to keep
pace with the large number of fast kids. There are a lot of kids that start before they are 9 that “burnout” by age 12-13 because they get passed by more athletic/talented kids that didn’t start until 9-10. When you start off at the top of the heap it’s a hard pill to swallow when you settle in at the BB level as an 11-12 or 13-14, and a lot of kids just bail at that point.

I have a very small sample size -
so take with a grain of salt - but NOVA has a similar reputation in terms of burn out/intensity as NCAP. These top programs likely aren’t doing anything magical; they’re practicing more than other clubs and they attract the strongest kids and coaches. It all adds up to strong cohorts and fast kids.

Anonymous wrote:Wow, looking at the meet referenced and have to say NOVA impresses me, it is a smaller team without sites all over like NCAP and the bigger local teams, smaller city and some massive talent. The 10 year old girls are super fast and also the 12 year old boys. What are they doing there? Very impressive.

# of sites doesn’t equal team size. They are just as big as the huge clubs in Potomac Valley, they just don’t need additional sites because parents down there aren’t anywhere close to as psychotic as parents up here and are actually willing to commute for 30+ minutes daily to get to practice because that’s where the facility is

If you've ever been down to Richmond for their meets you would be blown away by their facilities. Different market obviously, and they have it absolutely cornered. If you are a swimmer in that part of the world they will be your only destination.

Easier to pick-up real estate down there of course, but at their one location (an old Macy's converted into a dedicated NOVA facility) They have their own 50 meter long course pool, drylands right there on site, team store, and so on. I know RMSC has Rockville with a long course pool, but even they have to share that with all of the other things Montgomery County does there.

It would be hard to pull off what they have resource wise up here - but imagine the beauty and simplicity of just dropping your swimmer off at one singular building for everything they need, including meets since they can host meets of any size right there at home! Even better, they can practice anytime they want - it's their facility. We love it here and all, but man they have it figured out down there!

Anonymous wrote:Wow, looking at the meet referenced and have to say NOVA impresses me, it is a smaller team without sites all over like NCAP and the bigger local teams, smaller city and some massive talent. The 10 year old girls are super fast and also the 12 year old boys. What are they doing there? Very impressive.

THIS. Exactly- you have to recalculate for size.

Wow, looking at the meet referenced and have to say NOVA impresses me, it is a smaller team without sites all over like NCAP and the bigger local teams, smaller city and some massive talent. The 10 year old girls are super fast and also the 12 year old boys. What are they doing there? Very impressive.