Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if more schools will start offering summer PSAT prep programs. Seems like Banneker, McKinley Tech, BASIS, Latin, DCI, Truth, etc. would have a group of students who, with more prep, could have a shot at NMSF. It would be a good investment for the schools in that it could get them more publicity and applicants...a virtuous cycle.

Getting NMSF in DC (with the highest cut-off in the nation) means performing at the level of a 1590-1600 SAT.

If you can get a bunch of kids at these DC schools to that level with "more prep" then you will accomplish what educators in America have never been able to do and you will make the national news.

If they miss the goal, they can still get uncf and other scholarships. And they will improve their sat scores. I am just surprised more schools don't make the investment.

I agree. My urban magnet high school integrated SAT prep into the curriculum and within a couple of years had the most NMSF ever in our state. The record has still not been broken. I got one of those scholarships and while it only amounted to 2K, that's not nothing.

That is a huge waste of class time for one practice test for which there are a finite number of awards per state.

It's not one test; anything taught for the psat would also be useful for the sat, probably the act, and maybe ap exams or cape. And the goal isn't only nmsf but other scholarships and admissions that have test scores as a criterion.

So why are you making it all about one test? In DC there are plenty of kids with 5s on PARCC/CAPE exams and APs, and high SAT scores, who don’t quite hit the NMSF line.

It would be great to celebrate other academic achievements like APs, etc. Why not start another thread? You can do that without dumping on these kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know nothing about how this works. Is it just PSAT?

Yes. But it gets you a lot of scholarship offers.

NMSF is a semi-big deal until the day you take the SATs. After that, no one gives a shit how you did on the PSAT. Signed, a NMSF from a long time ago.

I hope you're right. My kid got a high score on PSAT but didn't get NMSF because her math score was significantly higher than her verbal. And that kind of stinks.

DP. I understand your feelings but I've come to conclude the reasons they double the verbal is to ensure a more even gender distribution of NMSFs. I am a female NMSFer who had an asymmetry with higher verbal. I only recently dug into the reasons for this. The web has info. It's kind of shocking actually.

Be glad that your daughter has strong math skills. Level of highest math studied and quant skills have a strong correlation with female salaries.

me too! perfect PSAT verbal, high average math - got me national merit scholar and (back then) great merit aide at a SLAC.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if more schools will start offering summer PSAT prep programs. Seems like Banneker, McKinley Tech, BASIS, Latin, DCI, Truth, etc. would have a group of students who, with more prep, could have a shot at NMSF. It would be a good investment for the schools in that it could get them more publicity and applicants...a virtuous cycle.

Getting NMSF in DC (with the highest cut-off in the nation) means performing at the level of a 1590-1600 SAT.

If you can get a bunch of kids at these DC schools to that level with "more prep" then you will accomplish what educators in America have never been able to do and you will make the national news.

If they miss the goal, they can still get uncf and other scholarships. And they will improve their sat scores. I am just surprised more schools don't make the investment.

I agree. My urban magnet high school integrated SAT prep into the curriculum and within a couple of years had the most NMSF ever in our state. The record has still not been broken. I got one of those scholarships and while it only amounted to 2K, that's not nothing.

That is a huge waste of class time for one practice test for which there are a finite number of awards per state.

It's not one test; anything taught for the psat would also be useful for the sat, probably the act, and maybe ap exams or cape. And the goal isn't only nmsf but other scholarships and admissions that have test scores as a criterion.

So why are you making it all about one test? In DC there are plenty of kids with 5s on PARCC/CAPE exams and APs, and high SAT scores, who don’t quite hit the NMSF line.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if more schools will start offering summer PSAT prep programs. Seems like Banneker, McKinley Tech, BASIS, Latin, DCI, Truth, etc. would have a group of students who, with more prep, could have a shot at NMSF. It would be a good investment for the schools in that it could get them more publicity and applicants...a virtuous cycle.

Getting NMSF in DC (with the highest cut-off in the nation) means performing at the level of a 1590-1600 SAT.

If you can get a bunch of kids at these DC schools to that level with "more prep" then you will accomplish what educators in America have never been able to do and you will make the national news.

If they miss the goal, they can still get uncf and other scholarships. And they will improve their sat scores. I am just surprised more schools don't make the investment.

I agree. My urban magnet high school integrated SAT prep into the curriculum and within a couple of years had the most NMSF ever in our state. The record has still not been broken. I got one of those scholarships and while it only amounted to 2K, that's not nothing.

That is a huge waste of class time for one practice test for which there are a finite number of awards per state.

It's not one test; anything taught for the psat would also be useful for the sat, probably the act, and maybe ap exams or cape. And the goal isn't only nmsf but other scholarships and admissions that have test scores as a criterion.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting close to a perfect score on the PSAT has nothing to do with filling in bubbles correctly or even being able to take a digital test.

It's about mastery of Algebra 1 and 2, geometry, grammar, vocabulary, and reading for content.

This. At that level, the logistics are trivial. It's about problem solving. I'm a former Kaplan teacher (and former NMSF).

Thank you. And both PSAT and SAT scores are the only reliable test scores we can use to compare high school performance.

Meh, SAT is more important. Not all kids prep for PSAT.

True. But another data point is always helpful.

Wouldn't having more unprepped test-takers make the PSAT even more valuable? The results of prepped students tell you how good their prep courses were (and how much money their parents have), not a high school's performance.

Test prep for PSAT doesn’t appreciably increase the mean score, but it does reduce the variance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting close to a perfect score on the PSAT has nothing to do with filling in bubbles correctly or even being able to take a digital test.

It's about mastery of Algebra 1 and 2, geometry, grammar, vocabulary, and reading for content.

This. At that level, the logistics are trivial. It's about problem solving. I'm a former Kaplan teacher (and former NMSF).

Thank you. And both PSAT and SAT scores are the only reliable test scores we can use to compare high school performance.

Meh, SAT is more important. Not all kids prep for PSAT.

True. But another data point is always helpful.

Wouldn't having more unprepped test-takers make the PSAT even more valuable? The results of prepped students tell you how good their prep courses were (and how much money their parents have), not a high school's performance.

I’m curious if there’s any disjunction between the kids doing IMO and the PSAT NMSF list

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know nothing about how this works. Is it just PSAT?

Yes. But it gets you a lot of scholarship offers.

NMSF is a semi-big deal until the day you take the SATs. After that, no one gives a shit how you did on the PSAT. Signed, a NMSF from a long time ago.

I hope you're right. My kid got a high score on PSAT but didn't get NMSF because her math score was significantly higher than her verbal. And that kind of stinks.

DP. I understand your feelings but I've come to conclude the reasons they double the verbal is to ensure a more even gender distribution of NMSFs. I am a female NMSFer who had an asymmetry with higher verbal. I only recently dug into the reasons for this. The web has info. It's kind of shocking actually.

Be glad that your daughter has strong math skills. Level of highest math studied and quant skills have a strong correlation with female salaries.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know nothing about how this works. Is it just PSAT?

Yes. But it gets you a lot of scholarship offers.

NMSF is a semi-big deal until the day you take the SATs. After that, no one gives a shit how you did on the PSAT. Signed, a NMSF from a long time ago.

Beg to differ. Could be worth $10K or more in scholarships.

Also...with kids, tells you how well your kids have been educated to potential. I paid for a lot of Covid-era math instruction remediation. My kid was exactly on the line for Commended. My whole family is a mix of NMSFs and Commendeds. If my kid didn't make Commended, I would have considered it my failure to ensure enough math remediation and test prepping to have him reach his potential. It's a more well-characterized test of facility with algebra and geometry under time pressure than anything else available to us. I'm happy to know my son matched his dad's math %ile of population and exceeded mine. It means his public school education plus math tutoring got the job done.

-Another NMSF from a long time ago

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if more schools will start offering summer PSAT prep programs. Seems like Banneker, McKinley Tech, BASIS, Latin, DCI, Truth, etc. would have a group of students who, with more prep, could have a shot at NMSF. It would be a good investment for the schools in that it could get them more publicity and applicants...a virtuous cycle.

Getting NMSF in DC (with the highest cut-off in the nation) means performing at the level of a 1590-1600 SAT.

If you can get a bunch of kids at these DC schools to that level with "more prep" then you will accomplish what educators in America have never been able to do and you will make the national news.

In any case, they will not allow a cut score that gives any state or territory significantly more than their proportion of award slots. The awards are given based on each state's proportion of graduating seniors in the country. Territories and DC are too small for that to be fair (DC would only get 15 NMSF that way), so for most locations the Commended score is used; but DC has way too many Commended qualifiers, so for DC they use the top state score so that DC is limited to between 30 and 50 NMSF each year. No matter how much prep all the kids do, only this number of kids will be NMSF. If too many make it at a certain score, they change the cut score to get back to the same number of awards. That's how it works.

in the Paleolithic era when I took the test on a stone tablet, I was overseas and remember DC being the only higher r required test score for NMSF

Today you would have the same as DC. US students abroad taking the NMSQT are also given the highest cut score now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know nothing about how this works. Is it just PSAT?

Yes. But it gets you a lot of scholarship offers.

NMSF is a semi-big deal until the day you take the SATs. After that, no one gives a shit how you did on the PSAT. Signed, a NMSF from a long time ago.

If you get a scholarship that makes college more affordable, you will care.

It's only $2K. Which isn't nothing but isn't much when many college are $90K+.

It gets you on interest lists for a lot of schools who otherwise wouldn’t know you existed, who will offer aid packages far more generous than the scholarship from the PSAT. USC for instance wanted to give me a full ride, and they targeted NMSF kids for a while. I only started getting mail from the ivies after I got my test score.

Not sure why people are dumping on it. It's a feather in your cap, puts you on a bunch of lists, and results in financial offers from a whole bunch of schools. There is also no guarantee that even the smartest, most hardworking kid will get it. I was one of two kids who got it at my high schools that year (the two indian kids, reinforcing stereotypes) and I can assure you that absolutely no one else cared.

But it did result it merit offers from various colleges, and I notice as an adult that most of my closest friends are also former NMSF (my husband, and handful of closest friends, his closest friends).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know nothing about how this works. Is it just PSAT?

Yes. But it gets you a lot of scholarship offers.

NMSF is a semi-big deal until the day you take the SATs. After that, no one gives a shit how you did on the PSAT. Signed, a NMSF from a long time ago.

If you get a scholarship that makes college more affordable, you will care.

It's only $2K. Which isn't nothing but isn't much when many college are $90K+.

It gets you on interest lists for a lot of schools who otherwise wouldn’t know you existed, who will offer aid packages far more generous than the scholarship from the PSAT. USC for instance wanted to give me a full ride, and they targeted NMSF kids for a while. I only started getting mail from the ivies after I got my test score.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I wonder if more schools will start offering summer PSAT prep programs. Seems like Banneker, McKinley Tech, BASIS, Latin, DCI, Truth, etc. would have a group of students who, with more prep, could have a shot at NMSF. It would be a good investment for the schools in that it could get them more publicity and applicants...a virtuous cycle.

Getting NMSF in DC (with the highest cut-off in the nation) means performing at the level of a 1590-1600 SAT.

If you can get a bunch of kids at these DC schools to that level with "more prep" then you will accomplish what educators in America have never been able to do and you will make the national news.

In any case, they will not allow a cut score that gives any state or territory significantly more than their proportion of award slots. The awards are given based on each state's proportion of graduating seniors in the country. Territories and DC are too small for that to be fair (DC would only get 15 NMSF that way), so for most locations the Commended score is used; but DC has way too many Commended qualifiers, so for DC they use the top state score so that DC is limited to between 30 and 50 NMSF each year. No matter how much prep all the kids do, only this number of kids will be NMSF. If too many make it at a certain score, they change the cut score to get back to the same number of awards. That's how it works.

in the Paleolithic era when I took the test on a stone tablet, I was overseas and remember DC being the only higher r required test score for NMSF

Anonymous wrote:This list is a reprisal of the 16 student fall 2020 virtual Deal 8th grade Algebra 2 class. One is at JR. The rest left for greener pastures.

What a brutal year to be taking that class. My goodness, and good for them

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Getting close to a perfect score on the PSAT has nothing to do with filling in bubbles correctly or even being able to take a digital test.

It's about mastery of Algebra 1 and 2, geometry, grammar, vocabulary, and reading for content.

This. At that level, the logistics are trivial. It's about problem solving. I'm a former Kaplan teacher (and former NMSF).

Thank you. And both PSAT and SAT scores are the only reliable test scores we can use to compare high school performance.

Meh, SAT is more important. Not all kids prep for PSAT.

True. But another data point is always helpful.