Anonymous
09/18/2024 22:04
Subject: S/O Ageism-proof professions/industries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Tech isn't inherently ageist, IMO. It's a field that:
1) is fast paced
2) rewards current skills
3) rewards demonstrable output
As we age (myself included), fewer of us have the energy or inclination to meet those criteria. Hell, I didn't want to keep pace with emerging tech 5 years into my career, let alone 20. Layer on top of that the demands of middle-age - families, aging parents, life in general - and there's a disconnect between the demands of the industry and what some aging people are able to deliver.
There are PLENTY of 50, 60, 70 year olds in tech. But, as a percentage, they drop off over time because of the above.
Disagree as they are constantly trying to use offshore ppl. I've seen good ppl given the ax or forced into early retirement in their 40s.
That's true, but I don't think that's age-related. I've moved 40% of my team offshore for cost savings, but I'm still hiring people of all ages in multiple countries.
So depressing.
I'm not sure why it's depressing to give people in traditionally oppressed and impoverished locations a chance at a good job and life, but okay.
They are taking away American jobs from American people. Clearly you sleep at night by justifying as you just did. Just own it. You are doing it to save money.
Anonymous
09/18/2024 21:54
Subject: S/O Ageism-proof professions/industries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:GenX is about to become Madame President.
Yes, but she had to kick the old fart to the curb first, as he wasn’t ready to retire at 81.
So what is the lesson learned here?
nope, shes a boomer
shes a boomer
https://www.washingtonian.com/2020/08/14/sorry-but-kamala-harris-is-a-boomer/
Yep, JD Vance will be out first Gen X President.
Jokes on you he’s a Millennial: 1984.
Have to say, his birth year is prescient.
Anonymous
09/18/2024 21:06
Subject: S/O Ageism-proof professions/industries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:GenX is about to become Madame President.
Yes, but she had to kick the old fart to the curb first, as he wasn’t ready to retire at 81.
So what is the lesson learned here?
nope, shes a boomer
shes a boomer
https://www.washingtonian.com/2020/08/14/sorry-but-kamala-harris-is-a-boomer/
Yep, JD Vance will be out first Gen X President.
Anonymous
09/18/2024 20:55
Subject: S/O Ageism-proof professions/industries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Tech isn't inherently ageist, IMO. It's a field that:
1) is fast paced
2) rewards current skills
3) rewards demonstrable output
As we age (myself included), fewer of us have the energy or inclination to meet those criteria. Hell, I didn't want to keep pace with emerging tech 5 years into my career, let alone 20. Layer on top of that the demands of middle-age - families, aging parents, life in general - and there's a disconnect between the demands of the industry and what some aging people are able to deliver.
There are PLENTY of 50, 60, 70 year olds in tech. But, as a percentage, they drop off over time because of the above.
Disagree as they are constantly trying to use offshore ppl. I've seen good ppl given the ax or forced into early retirement in their 40s.
That's true, but I don't think that's age-related. I've moved 40% of my team offshore for cost savings, but I'm still hiring people of all ages in multiple countries.
So depressing.
I'm not sure why it's depressing to give people in traditionally oppressed and impoverished locations a chance at a good job and life, but okay.
Anonymous
09/18/2024 13:55
Subject: S/O Ageism-proof professions/industries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Tech isn't inherently ageist, IMO. It's a field that:
1) is fast paced
2) rewards current skills
3) rewards demonstrable output
As we age (myself included), fewer of us have the energy or inclination to meet those criteria. Hell, I didn't want to keep pace with emerging tech 5 years into my career, let alone 20. Layer on top of that the demands of middle-age - families, aging parents, life in general - and there's a disconnect between the demands of the industry and what some aging people are able to deliver.
There are PLENTY of 50, 60, 70 year olds in tech. But, as a percentage, they drop off over time because of the above.
Disagree as they are constantly trying to use offshore ppl. I've seen good ppl given the ax or forced into early retirement in their 40s.
That's true, but I don't think that's age-related. I've moved 40% of my team offshore for cost savings, but I'm still hiring people of all ages in multiple countries.
So depressing.
Anonymous
09/18/2024 09:40
Subject: S/O Ageism-proof professions/industries?
Marketing and advertising agencies have to be among the worst.
Anonymous
09/18/2024 01:03
Subject: S/O Ageism-proof professions/industries?
I have the following professionals in my life
Estate attorney--he owns the business, he is in his 90's
Appliance repair guy--just turned 90, Asian
Electrician--he is in his 70's, African American, looks much much younger, his work crew is all in their 20's
Driver (to and from airport)--nice African American lady in her 80's, always well dressed and made up nicely
Pastors--The last two have been in their 70's
Estate attorney--he owns the business, he is in his 90's
Appliance repair guy--just turned 90, Asian
Electrician--he is in his 70's, African American, looks much much younger, his work crew is all in their 20's
Driver (to and from airport)--nice African American lady in her 80's, always well dressed and made up nicely
Pastors--The last two have been in their 70's
Anonymous
09/17/2024 22:25
Subject: S/O Ageism-proof professions/industries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Tech isn't inherently ageist, IMO. It's a field that:
1) is fast paced
2) rewards current skills
3) rewards demonstrable output
As we age (myself included), fewer of us have the energy or inclination to meet those criteria. Hell, I didn't want to keep pace with emerging tech 5 years into my career, let alone 20. Layer on top of that the demands of middle-age - families, aging parents, life in general - and there's a disconnect between the demands of the industry and what some aging people are able to deliver.
There are PLENTY of 50, 60, 70 year olds in tech. But, as a percentage, they drop off over time because of the above.
Complete BS. “fast paced” really only applies to startups, large tech companies have processes and workflows like most corporations.
Current skills? Most older engineers can learn the new tech; going from old languages without garbage collection and hand rolling your own threads, versus todays programming which is so high level and abstracted that it’s more akin to operating an application than coding assembly. Sure they aren’t fresh out of college, but given the choice of laid off or spin up this new tech stack what do you think? And older engineers are way better at CM control, documentation, thorough testing, which means you will have fewer defects and likely cheaper more reliable development cycles.
As for “output” I suspect your metrics don’t look at delivered quality code vs speeding out lines copied and pasted from StackExchange or an LLM.
It probably comes down to lower pay and willingness to work long hours, which older employees will push back as unwise for delivering quality. They can’t just cut pay because then the ageism would be obvious. So even if an older employer would accept lower pay because of business conditions they aren’t considered because “entreat level” provides cover.
I don't know what to tell you, but every tech company/org I've been a part of rewards innovation, to include the application of emerging technology.
I think you're misinterpreting me. I'm not saying older workers are inherently less valuable or capable. They're not. But I am saying that the natural course of aging - for most - tends to erode the qualities and characteristics valued by the tech industry. There are of course positions that experienced techies can move into that don't require constant retraining and high output, but those positions are far more limited than the worker bee engineering roles.
Anonymous
09/17/2024 22:20
Subject: S/O Ageism-proof professions/industries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Tech isn't inherently ageist, IMO. It's a field that:
1) is fast paced
2) rewards current skills
3) rewards demonstrable output
As we age (myself included), fewer of us have the energy or inclination to meet those criteria. Hell, I didn't want to keep pace with emerging tech 5 years into my career, let alone 20. Layer on top of that the demands of middle-age - families, aging parents, life in general - and there's a disconnect between the demands of the industry and what some aging people are able to deliver.
There are PLENTY of 50, 60, 70 year olds in tech. But, as a percentage, they drop off over time because of the above.
Disagree as they are constantly trying to use offshore ppl. I've seen good ppl given the ax or forced into early retirement in their 40s.
That's true, but I don't think that's age-related. I've moved 40% of my team offshore for cost savings, but I'm still hiring people of all ages in multiple countries.
Yes, not age related (it's cost) but I have to doubt you or others are hiring older people from the USA for tech jobs.
I have. Team diversity (including age diversity) yields good outcomes. But I've also run into a few hires who haven't worked out because of the factors I outlined above. So my team's average age is probably late 30s.
Anonymous
09/17/2024 17:16
Subject: S/O Ageism-proof professions/industries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Tech isn't inherently ageist, IMO. It's a field that:
1) is fast paced
2) rewards current skills
3) rewards demonstrable output
As we age (myself included), fewer of us have the energy or inclination to meet those criteria. Hell, I didn't want to keep pace with emerging tech 5 years into my career, let alone 20. Layer on top of that the demands of middle-age - families, aging parents, life in general - and there's a disconnect between the demands of the industry and what some aging people are able to deliver.
There are PLENTY of 50, 60, 70 year olds in tech. But, as a percentage, they drop off over time because of the above.
Disagree as they are constantly trying to use offshore ppl. I've seen good ppl given the ax or forced into early retirement in their 40s.
That's true, but I don't think that's age-related. I've moved 40% of my team offshore for cost savings, but I'm still hiring people of all ages in multiple countries.
Yes, not age related (it's cost) but I have to doubt you or others are hiring older people from the USA for tech jobs.
Anonymous
09/17/2024 14:55
Subject: S/O Ageism-proof professions/industries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Tech isn't inherently ageist, IMO. It's a field that:
1) is fast paced
2) rewards current skills
3) rewards demonstrable output
As we age (myself included), fewer of us have the energy or inclination to meet those criteria. Hell, I didn't want to keep pace with emerging tech 5 years into my career, let alone 20. Layer on top of that the demands of middle-age - families, aging parents, life in general - and there's a disconnect between the demands of the industry and what some aging people are able to deliver.
There are PLENTY of 50, 60, 70 year olds in tech. But, as a percentage, they drop off over time because of the above.
Complete BS. “fast paced” really only applies to startups, large tech companies have processes and workflows like most corporations.
Current skills? Most older engineers can learn the new tech; going from old languages without garbage collection and hand rolling your own threads, versus todays programming which is so high level and abstracted that it’s more akin to operating an application than coding assembly. Sure they aren’t fresh out of college, but given the choice of laid off or spin up this new tech stack what do you think? And older engineers are way better at CM control, documentation, thorough testing, which means you will have fewer defects and likely cheaper more reliable development cycles.
As for “output” I suspect your metrics don’t look at delivered quality code vs speeding out lines copied and pasted from StackExchange or an LLM.
It probably comes down to lower pay and willingness to work long hours, which older employees will push back as unwise for delivering quality. They can’t just cut pay because then the ageism would be obvious. So even if an older employer would accept lower pay because of business conditions they aren’t considered because “entreat level” provides cover.
" And older engineers are way better at CM control, documentation, thorough testing, which means you will have fewer defects and likely cheaper more reliable development cycles."
unfortunately this is being done by young engineers using ai, my teen uses ai to do all that and can focus on ideas vs manual labarous tasks like this and low level coding
Haha, sure AI run through checklist but being a conscientious program manager and developer is not yet an LLM function.
Anonymous
09/17/2024 13:30
Subject: S/O Ageism-proof professions/industries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:GenX is about to become Madame President.
Yes, but she had to kick the old fart to the curb first, as he wasn’t ready to retire at 81.
So what is the lesson learned here?
nope, shes a boomer
shes a boomer
https://www.washingtonian.com/2020/08/14/sorry-but-kamala-harris-is-a-boomer/
Anonymous
09/17/2024 13:28
Subject: S/O Ageism-proof professions/industries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:GenX is about to become Madame President.
Yes, but she had to kick the old fart to the curb first, as he wasn’t ready to retire at 81.
So what is the lesson learned here?
nope, shes a boomer
Anonymous
09/17/2024 13:28
Subject: S/O Ageism-proof professions/industries?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Tech isn't inherently ageist, IMO. It's a field that:
1) is fast paced
2) rewards current skills
3) rewards demonstrable output
As we age (myself included), fewer of us have the energy or inclination to meet those criteria. Hell, I didn't want to keep pace with emerging tech 5 years into my career, let alone 20. Layer on top of that the demands of middle-age - families, aging parents, life in general - and there's a disconnect between the demands of the industry and what some aging people are able to deliver.
There are PLENTY of 50, 60, 70 year olds in tech. But, as a percentage, they drop off over time because of the above.
Complete BS. “fast paced” really only applies to startups, large tech companies have processes and workflows like most corporations.
Current skills? Most older engineers can learn the new tech; going from old languages without garbage collection and hand rolling your own threads, versus todays programming which is so high level and abstracted that it’s more akin to operating an application than coding assembly. Sure they aren’t fresh out of college, but given the choice of laid off or spin up this new tech stack what do you think? And older engineers are way better at CM control, documentation, thorough testing, which means you will have fewer defects and likely cheaper more reliable development cycles.
As for “output” I suspect your metrics don’t look at delivered quality code vs speeding out lines copied and pasted from StackExchange or an LLM.
It probably comes down to lower pay and willingness to work long hours, which older employees will push back as unwise for delivering quality. They can’t just cut pay because then the ageism would be obvious. So even if an older employer would accept lower pay because of business conditions they aren’t considered because “entreat level” provides cover.
" And older engineers are way better at CM control, documentation, thorough testing, which means you will have fewer defects and likely cheaper more reliable development cycles."
unfortunately this is being done by young engineers using ai, my teen uses ai to do all that and can focus on ideas vs manual labarous tasks like this and low level coding
Anonymous
09/17/2024 12:55
Subject: S/O Ageism-proof professions/industries?
Anonymous wrote:Tech isn't inherently ageist, IMO. It's a field that:
1) is fast paced
2) rewards current skills
3) rewards demonstrable output
As we age (myself included), fewer of us have the energy or inclination to meet those criteria. Hell, I didn't want to keep pace with emerging tech 5 years into my career, let alone 20. Layer on top of that the demands of middle-age - families, aging parents, life in general - and there's a disconnect between the demands of the industry and what some aging people are able to deliver.
There are PLENTY of 50, 60, 70 year olds in tech. But, as a percentage, they drop off over time because of the above.
Complete BS. “fast paced” really only applies to startups, large tech companies have processes and workflows like most corporations.
Current skills? Most older engineers can learn the new tech; going from old languages without garbage collection and hand rolling your own threads, versus todays programming which is so high level and abstracted that it’s more akin to operating an application than coding assembly. Sure they aren’t fresh out of college, but given the choice of laid off or spin up this new tech stack what do you think? And older engineers are way better at CM control, documentation, thorough testing, which means you will have fewer defects and likely cheaper more reliable development cycles.
As for “output” I suspect your metrics don’t look at delivered quality code vs speeding out lines copied and pasted from StackExchange or an LLM.
It probably comes down to lower pay and willingness to work long hours, which older employees will push back as unwise for delivering quality. They can’t just cut pay because then the ageism would be obvious. So even if an older employer would accept lower pay because of business conditions they aren’t considered because “entreat level” provides cover.