If you read the article, these students in the new course take the same exams and finals as the regular calc class. This hardly seems the end of western civilization.

Frankly, calculus principles aren’t very hard to learn. The power rule and the chain rule are very straight forward to apply. The only thing that makes calculus difficult is the imbedded algebra and trig. That’s where 90%+ of the mistakes are made. If you didn’t have an excellent algebra teacher I can see how there would be gaps. That plus the covid years, it makes sense they would supplement with algebra training.

Why all the pearl clutching?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know plenty of MIT grads who are not writers. I'm not shocked that there are Harvard kids who are top 1% in something who are not great at calc. Not everyone can be everything.

pre-calc is not top 1% for a college student and certainly not for a student at Harvard

Says who? This is who Harvard wants. What you want for Harvard is something else. It is your expectations that need adjustment.

Well, Harvard has now gone back to test required, so they will be able to weed out lower caliber students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. I assume this is directed at first gen students, but still seems pretty nuts.

why would you assume that?

Many Asian American students are first gen, and they score very high in math, the highest of all groups.

For the most part it’s because all they do is study.

Actually, they do lot of martial arts (Tae Kwon Do etc.) and soccer and tennis as well.

and piano, violin...

Maybe other kids should study a lot more so that Harvard doesn't have to offer remedial math classes for its students.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. I assume this is directed at first gen students, but still seems pretty nuts.

why would you assume that?

Many Asian American students are first gen, and they score very high in math, the highest of all groups.

For the most part it’s because all they do is study.

Actually, they do lot of martial arts (Tae Kwon Do etc.) and soccer and tennis as well.

Poor first gen kids play a lot of tennis?

Anonymous wrote:lol...I'm gonna guess that half the posters here had kids completing Algebra 2 by 8th or 9th grade.

Harvard students can't do the math of a 12 year old.

What a fail for this supposed bastion of the best of the best.

+1
half the students of each our top private k-12s or public magnets did algebra 2 in 8 or 9th...the top albeit small group took it in 7th

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. I assume this is directed at first gen students, but still seems pretty nuts.

why would you assume that?

Many Asian American students are first gen, and they score very high in math, the highest of all groups.

For the most part it’s because all they do is study.

Actually, they do lot of martial arts (Tae Kwon Do etc.) and soccer and tennis as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know plenty of MIT grads who are not writers. I'm not shocked that there are Harvard kids who are top 1% in something who are not great at calc. Not everyone can be everything.

pre-calc is not top 1% for a college student and certainly not for a student at Harvard

Says who? This is who Harvard wants. What you want for Harvard is something else. It is your expectations that need adjustment.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Wow. I assume this is directed at first gen students, but still seems pretty nuts.

why would you assume that?

Many Asian American students are first gen, and they score very high in math, the highest of all groups.

For the most part it’s because all they do is study.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting that when MIT encountered this issue, they dumped test optional admissions. Harvard is doubling down.

It’s clearly Harvard’s call to focus on equity more than academic excellence, but let’s not pretend it isn’t a choice.

Harvard is test required now. They did realize, just a couple years later than MIT. More likely, they knew within the first semester of TO on campus, fall 2021, just like some leaked professor chatter from other top schools...they just chose to ignore a couple years longer to drum up the diversity numbers while they could, pre-supreme court decision.

They are now test required because of all the criticism around TO and as other elite colleges are going back to test required. TO let in weak students.

https://www.thecrimson.com/article/2024/4/11/harvard-sat-act-admissions-requirement/

The decision comes in the face of Harvard’s previous commitments to remain test-optional through the admitted Class of 2030, a policy that was first instituted during the pandemic.

Harvard had faced mounting criticism from both academics and admissions experts for continuing its test-optional policies, even as its peer institutions returned to requiring standardized tests. In recent weeks, Yale, Dartmouth, and Brown have announced returns to required testing.

lol...I'm gonna guess that half the posters here had kids completing Algebra 2 by 8th or 9th grade.

Harvard students can't do the math of a 12 year old.

What a fail for this supposed bastion of the best of the best.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I know plenty of MIT grads who are not writers. I'm not shocked that there are Harvard kids who are top 1% in something who are not great at calc. Not everyone can be everything.

pre-calc is not top 1% for a college student and certainly not for a student at Harvard

+1 why does Harvard admit such low caliber students. Even my B student is taking Calc junior year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Math M isn't a new course, and isn't remedial. It's functions and introductory calculus, which are college level calculus. This is a section of the same course that meets 5 days instead of 3 so that kids can get more support while taking this college level class.

"“What we thought was the best thing to do — instead of adding another course before MA — was to add more time and support into MA for students who would need it.”"

Previous commenters might be great at math but lack reading skills - or the willingness to actually read the article before blathering.

dp.. One would expect Harvard caliber students to not need more "time and support" for " functions and introductory calculus". A lot of high performing students take this type of class in HS. If Harvard had not been TO, they could've weeded out people with weak math scores.

Exactly. If this were at UMD or something, I'd applaud it. But Harvard? No way. If you're at Harvard, you should already have a foundation in intro calculus and the capacity to handle a high-speed academic workflow. this is the result of dumbing down admissions for "equity."

Anonymous wrote:It’s interesting that when MIT encountered this issue, they dumped test optional admissions. Harvard is doubling down.

It’s clearly Harvard’s call to focus on equity more than academic excellence, but let’s not pretend it isn’t a choice.

Harvard is test required now. They did realize, just a couple years later than MIT. More likely, they knew within the first semester of TO on campus, fall 2021, just like some leaked professor chatter from other top schools...they just chose to ignore a couple years longer to drum up the diversity numbers while they could, pre-supreme court decision.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Half of US high schools don’t offer calculus. I imagine there may be very bright students at Harvard and elsewhere who have had weak learning environments.

From the article:

The Harvard Math Department will pilot a new introductory course aimed at rectifying a lack of foundational algebra skills among students, according to Harvard’s Director of Introductory Math Brendan A. Kelly.

What does this say about Harvard admission? If they are admitting the best and brightest, why are they facing this issue?

You seem to be conflating preparedness with intelligence. Lots and lots of highly intelligent people have not had sufficient training and preparation to hone and apply their ability into skill. If Harvard, or any other university, sees it as part of its mission to educate that segment of the population, they’ll get no argument from me. You may resent that the algorithm you assumed applied to elite college admissions doesn’t in fact, but it has never been the practice of these universities to only take the most prepared and accomplished people.

Generally I agree with you. But it is really hard to come back from 12 years of neglected math. I am not saying that bridge programs and others are not doing great work, but pulling up kids with very bad math foundations to being able to get a math based stem degree is hard. Fine if Harvard believes some basic competency in math is necessary to graduate from Harvard but I think they are setting these kids up for heartbreak (as a cohort) if they are trying to go into math, physics, chem, engineering, etc.

This is what happens. The students who drop premed or engineering at top schools are more commonly from hooked demographics. That is terrible on mental health to be at an elite college and not even be able to handle the easiest math class.
Furthermore what does that do to URMs and poor (any race) students who got there on merit and are capable of acing the hardest classes? It is like a perpetual target on the back, everyone assuming you are a diversity admit who got in with lower standards when you individually did not. Diversity and low income quotas hurt qualified diverse and LI students.

Anonymous wrote:TO idiots. That's what you get.

Or maybe you are all kidding yourselves that Ivy kids are some rarified, superior species …🤔