My bff's daughter ran both cc and track. She is running both at Syracuse. She is good enough to run at a Div 1 uni, but was not good enough to get recruited and given a scholarship. So it has been very expensive. But her parents can afford it and she has loved every minute of it.

Op here.

Welp, things did not go well with dc’s coach and my kids request to continue training at a club where he is getting excellent speed training versus his high school team where the focus is on long distance. Dc is a junior so it’s now or never for him to work on skills he needs for a chance to run in college.

Dc practiced what he would say at home, worked hard to communicate his thoughts respectfully, but unfortunately it went really poorly. Coach basically threatened to ruin him, or at least that’s what he hinted at. ‘You’ll never run again if you don’t do what I say’

Wwyd??

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:who is the dude constantly posting about stuff in the 70s?

everything in sports has changed since then.

Yes, and also ... this kid has sooooo many realistic options other than a "P4 school."

'70s guy, I agree with a lot of what you have to say, but this parent and kid sound like they have realistic expectations.

You actually follow what 70s dude is saying? I can’t get past the bad writing in 10 paragraphs with personal events and BS wisdom.

Anonymous wrote:who is the dude constantly posting about stuff in the 70s?

everything in sports has changed since then.

Yes, and also ... this kid has sooooo many realistic options other than a "P4 school."

'70s guy, I agree with a lot of what you have to say, but this parent and kid sound like they have realistic expectations.

who is the dude constantly posting about stuff in the 70s?

everything in sports has changed since then.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The new (for now) paradigm will see more scholarships allowed but that doesn't mean schools will fund them, many won't. Roster spots will be lowered by rule which means cuts for kids already in school, tough times for now HS kids trying to run in college, and walking on will be very difficult.

Its very difficult to get money as a track athlete unless you are really an elite. And its even tougher for males.

Try d3 is my advice unless you're among the top 10 in your event in HS. If you can show during your 11th grade year that you are a viable scorer for a major conference coach, then you have a chance. If you don't hit the elite times until 12th grade, its too late, you'll have to scramble, find someone to take you for a year and hit the transfer portal if you continue to improve.

Just checked this thread again, so much more good info, thanks all!

What do you mean by top 10? State or nationally? I checked out run recruit and dc’s sophomore times line up with many schools, lots of d1 as well as d3. It looks like there are less competitive d1 from what I can see. Does that make sense?

I helped dc fill out a number of recruiter questionnaires to schools that seemed like could be a good fit. We left out the schools that seemed to be a reach academically. Dcs a decent student but not remotely close to being a top student.

Does that seem like a game plan?

Yes, OP, I think you are in great shape.

One other thing I wanted to add: Do what you need to do to keep your kid healthy, mentally and physically. My kid was promising, but could not quite stay healthy enough to keep up her rate of improvement and ultimately turned down offers to run in college. Weight workouts, taking true days off, enjoying the breaks between seasons, eating well, positive role models, etc., etc.

If you want scholarship money at a P4 school, as a mid distance or distance guy, it pays to be within or near the top 10. If you can run XC, and college XC is impossibly difficult over 10k and hills, you may not need to be quite as fast as truly good XC runners are valuable. Bear in mind a 9:10-9:15 two miler is likely not walking on at Stanford. This time wins many years in the states of Va or MD. Ypu have to go considerably under 9 minutes, and that is to walk-on. The days are gone when John McDonnell at Arkansas would take walk-ons if they showed desire and turn them into All Americans, even 9:30 high school two milers.. Roster spots too valuable with Title IX and budgets. Foreign ready made athletes are preferred. They dominate the NCAA today. Bear in mind that they almost invariably require full scholarships just to get her so it is tough for American kids to compete. I was ranked 2nd or 3rd in the nation in the late 70's from high school and it was a different world. Not a lot of scholarship money, but there was ample choice for me. Remember very few track programs give out 12.6 scholarships on the men's side, and if you are a mid or middle distance runner, there may be 2/3 scholarships collectively. Sprinters and jumpers can score a lot more points in the conference, especially with the two relays in big meets. Just a tough world out there. Not dismissing walking on as some become great and you don't have the hammer of a scholarship over your head, but the challenge with walking on iat P4 programs s whether the coach will truly give you time and opportunity in an era where immediate success is demanded. Given my age there are fewer coaches out there I know. Villanova and UVa will still develop runners effectively, on both the men's and women's sides. NC State on the women's side is great and I think Coach Henes is very good, but their recruiting profile is top 10 in the country and they really attract women in the portal.The gold standard is Northern Arizona for distance runners but an odd place for kids out east to go to school. The reigning XC champion Oklahoma State first 5 are all east Africans and very good.. You are talking guys who can run 13:10 for 5k (4:13 a mile) so it is difficult for any high schooler to comprehend. It is a sport with declining resources, particularly on the men's side. As I state above, D3 makes sense because it is very likely the coach is in the development business. Don't want to appear negative. I have friends who were Olympians and ran a 9:20 two mile in high school (my 9th grade time). With work walk-ons can become very good. Just harder to land in the right place today.

Anonymous wrote:Does anyone in the DC area know where a middle school aged kid who is interested in track could train?

what part of DC and what part of track and field?

There is a pole vaulting place in DC: https://dcvault.com/

Virginia House of Speed has clinics and a team

FPYC offers rec track

Does anyone in the DC area know where a middle school aged kid who is interested in track could train?

Anonymous wrote:Swim and track are totally different. There are many many options for club swim. There are not a lot of club track teams so you are stuck with the terrible HS coaches.

And the kids who swim for HS are still required to go to a certain number of HS practices so they are doing two a day practices. Everyone knows the club team is superior but it is fun to swim for the HS (even though the coaches are not good)

Are you the poster who said their coach wouldn’t allow it? Curious how that went.

I hear what you’re saying about swim and track, but dc does have a track club he’s been invited to train and run in. He’d prefer to still compete with his HS though. He’s got a little time before this comes to a head as it’s still pre season…

Swim and track are totally different. There are many many options for club swim. There are not a lot of club track teams so you are stuck with the terrible HS coaches.

And the kids who swim for HS are still required to go to a certain number of HS practices so they are doing two a day practices. Eberyone knows the club team is superior but it is fun to swim for the HS (even though the coaches are not good)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jumping into this thread on a slightly unrelated topic, Dc is now training with a coach during pre season through some local running club. He says he’s getting much better training than anything from his high school and is thinking about withdrawing from his high school team for training when winter season comes, and continuing training with this club. He says he’d still wear his school jersey at high school meets to compete, but he’s worried his HS track coach will flip and make things rough on him. Anyone btdt?

Could he arrange to work out with the team some days and the club other days, and then compete with his HS team? That might be more acceptable to his HS coach. DD knows some kids who do that.

Interesting. And the coaches let them?

That seems like a good compromise to me, but dc is fairly adamant that his HS track coaches haven’t been good with sprinting or hurdles and have ‘held [him] back’ and he wants to train pretty much solely with this coach. Of course I take this with a grain of salt… he’s a hot headed teen.

It really depends on the coach.

My kids' coach would NOT go for this. At all. I agree that it's all about respect ... your kid can ask nicely, but you might want to prepare him that he might not hear what he wants to hear.

Oh wow. How do you know this? Has your dc or another one tried to train with a club rather than the high school team? And the coach said no? What happened? Did the kid leave or stay?

Back in my dad, I had an Olympic bound swimmer friend who did this, but it was ages ago. The coach agreed and she swam for our high school team- killed everyone she competed against - but trained with her coach on her own.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jumping into this thread on a slightly unrelated topic, Dc is now training with a coach during pre season through some local running club. He says he’s getting much better training than anything from his high school and is thinking about withdrawing from his high school team for training when winter season comes, and continuing training with this club. He says he’d still wear his school jersey at high school meets to compete, but he’s worried his HS track coach will flip and make things rough on him. Anyone btdt?

Could he arrange to work out with the team some days and the club other days, and then compete with his HS team? That might be more acceptable to his HS coach. DD knows some kids who do that.

Interesting. And the coaches let them?

That seems like a good compromise to me, but dc is fairly adamant that his HS track coaches haven’t been good with sprinting or hurdles and have ‘held [him] back’ and he wants to train pretty much solely with this coach. Of course I take this with a grain of salt… he’s a hot headed teen.

It really depends on the coach.

My kids' coach would NOT go for this. At all. I agree that it's all about respect ... your kid can ask nicely, but you might want to prepare him that he might not hear what he wants to hear.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jumping into this thread on a slightly unrelated topic, Dc is now training with a coach during pre season through some local running club. He says he’s getting much better training than anything from his high school and is thinking about withdrawing from his high school team for training when winter season comes, and continuing training with this club. He says he’d still wear his school jersey at high school meets to compete, but he’s worried his HS track coach will flip and make things rough on him. Anyone btdt?

Our northern Virginia experience is that the HS coaches are terrible and have huge egos and trying g to offer up a reasonable solution is not allowed. Has here don’t let you miss a single practice- and especially for another coach or sport. It is very obvious they don’t care about kids development- joust their own egos

Op. That’s frustrating to hear. We aren’t in DMV area and I can’t say I don’t like my dc’s coaches whatsoever at all, but yes, I see there does seem to be a difficult attitude at times. And that’s what dc is concerned about.

Anonymous wrote:Jumping into this thread on a slightly unrelated topic, Dc is now training with a coach during pre season through some local running club. He says he’s getting much better training than anything from his high school and is thinking about withdrawing from his high school team for training when winter season comes, and continuing training with this club. He says he’d still wear his school jersey at high school meets to compete, but he’s worried his HS track coach will flip and make things rough on him. Anyone btdt?

Our northern Virginia experience is that the HS coaches are terrible and have huge egos and trying g to offer up a reasonable solution is not allowed. Has here don’t let you miss a single practice- and especially for another coach or sport. It is very obvious they don’t care about kids development- joust their own egos

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Jumping into this thread on a slightly unrelated topic, Dc is now training with a coach during pre season through some local running club. He says he’s getting much better training than anything from his high school and is thinking about withdrawing from his high school team for training when winter season comes, and continuing training with this club. He says he’d still wear his school jersey at high school meets to compete, but he’s worried his HS track coach will flip and make things rough on him. Anyone btdt?

Could he arrange to work out with the team some days and the club other days, and then compete with his HS team? That might be more acceptable to his HS coach. DD knows some kids who do that.

Interesting. And the coaches let them?

That seems like a good compromise to me, but dc is fairly adamant that his HS track coaches haven’t been good with sprinting or hurdles and have ‘held [him] back’ and he wants to train pretty much solely with this coach. Of course I take this with a grain of salt… he’s a hot headed teen.

Why does he want to compete with his HS team? At some point, he may have to choose which is more important, competing for his HS or training with the new coach. If he can approach the HS coach respectfully, he may have some compromise options, and then he’ll have to decide what his priorities are.

He loves his high school, the kids, etc. I think he’d be sad to not represent for them. But you’re absolutely right. He’s got to figure out how to discuss this respectfully with his high school coaches- one of whom is also his teacher so it adds a layer of stress for him. But you’re correct. It’s all about communication and compromise. Not his strong suits unfortunately and he is adamant that parents stay out of it.