I don't consider "reciprocating" because when I give, I don't keep a tally or mental note of who we have "given" to and what they "owe" us. I invite the friends I want to invite. I give the gifts I want to give. I plan the playdates I want to plan. I assume others do the same.

If a relationship falls off because the dynamic doesn't work for one or the other party, that's natural consequences. But I wouldn't walk around holding resentment against anyone. I am probably a non-reciprocator in some relationship, and an over-giver in others. Everyone's different.

This thread comes up periodically and I always have the same thoughts: I don’t really care about reciprocity of hosting or money or anything like that. I do care that the people I’m putting myself out there to express I’d like their company show me in some way that they are glad I did and also like spending time with me. Even texting or something is better than nothing. I am an organizer at heart and don’t mind hosting or planning but I hate the feeling of “do they really want to be my friend”. Some of the reasons for not reciprocating have nothing to do with that but there are also lots of people who always say they don’t care about socializing or don’t care about socializing with specific people and that’s what I worry about when I am doing all the inviting (not necessarily all the hosting) if that makes sense.

Anonymous wrote:The truth is that some parents are always offering based on their own motivations and if I don’t reciprocate at the same level, I am willing to accept the consequences.

Eg - one set of parents always want to host sleepovers, like every weekend. Personally I hate them and don’t like to host. If the fact that I don’t reciprocate means they stop having sleepovers, fine by me.

Another mom is always planning elaborate events as part of her competitive parenting efforts with her ex spouse. She is also crazy. If she views me as a taker and stops including my kid, then that’s fine too. These kids are now in high school, so they can plan their own activities anyway.

+1 This is how I always felt too. I always felt my kids were plenty busy with school, activities and extended family things. I didn't need a gazillion play dates to add to it.

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Anonymous wrote:Don't host looking for people to reciprocate. Often the people who don't reciprocate would be perfectly happy not to go to your house, dinner party, etc. My kids never asked for playdates and were happy at home w/ siblings or entertaining themselves. So if you don't like non-reciprocators, don't invite them anymore. Please, oh please, just stop posting on DCUM about it.

If you're perfectly happy not go to someone's house or dinner party...why don't you just decline, then? So odd. You seem to imply their invitations are an imposition. You can always say no.

Because I'm happy to go to the dinner party too. I'm fine either way. If you only want people to come to your parties, etc. who will reciprocate then stop inviting me after I don't reciprocate. Problem solved. Stop acting like reciprocation is a requirement...it's not. But, just so you know, you might lose some pretty good friends if you're going to keep score like this and insist on tit for tat. We have friends who host all the time. We have never hosted them at our house in 10 years or gone out to dinner. However, there are other ways to reciprocate and be a good friend. First, when they host, we always bring something (usually homemade that I know the hosts don't like making themselves). Second, we've helped this family in many other ways over the years...in a professional context, supporting their kid in various ways, etc. Plus, our kids have been very good friends for 10+ years. I'm pretty sure if you asked them, they would say we have had a strong, long-term friendship and they are glad they didn't cut us off because we don't like to host. So, I suggest you be a little more open-minded about friendships and what it means to be a good friend instead of looking for your next dinner invite.

What is wrong with you? Why do you never invite them over? Serious question.

Because our house is small, we just don't like having people over, and socializing is not a high priority. We're both introverts and can take or leave socializing. DH and I also both work a lot and our kids have very busy lives. Our friends who host, on the other hand, have tons of time on their hands and like having people over. I'm friends with the wife and we do things together (go to lunch, coffee, walks, etc.). But they've never been to our house and I don't see that ever changing. Yet, we have done many things to show we care about our friends -- helped in a pinch with their kid on several occasions, done late-night pick ups (which they hate to do), taken the kid on trips, etc. And when they invite us over, we go even when we don't feel like going because we know how much they enjoy having people over, etc.

I think the debate on this thread is a perfect illustration of the difference between extroverts and introverts. Extroverts love to socialize. They have parties, etc. because THEY want people to come over to socialize with. It's what they like to do. So, in turn, they want people to invite them to their parties. The problem is that introverts don't love socializing and often find it exhausting. I'll do it sometimes when friends invite us over and will appreciate their hospitality. But I'm not going to host a party at my house so my extroverted friends have something to do. Sorry. The problem is that extroverts need friends and lots of people around them. Introverts simply don't need other people as much, so they aren't waiting around for dinner/party invites (as someone above suggested) like the extroverts apparently do.

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Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

But that's not what is being suggested. OP is saying that if Family A hosts dinner at their house and Family B cannot/will not reciprocate by hosting, then Family B should take Family A out to dinner and pick up the bill. That's a weird and awkward expectation in my opinion. It's very transactional and would make me feel like they were literally paying me back. That's not my goal with hosting.

It would be nice for the other family to offer. Why not? Do you think hosting is free?

I just don't think of it transactionally like that. Sure hosting costs money. But I don't sit around thinking "we spent XYZ on having the Johnsons over last week." Like that money is just rolled into the cost of living. We like hosting. We like cooking and sharing food with friends.

It sounds like you think of hosting as an obligation or burden. To me it's more like a hobby or a fun activity. We could host this weekend or we could go to the beach. Both will cost money but I don't expect whoever we host to pay us back anymore than I expect the beach to pay me back. I would enjoy both activities.

It’s not a transaction. I can acknowledge someone has been kind and generous to me and want to do something in return. What kind of friends do people have where this isn’t the case?

I just think you are narrowly defining "something in return" as hosting or paying for something. But like I have friends who can never afford to host me or pay for something. But the still give me things. Their time and attention and affection. They are kind to my kids. They tell good stories. If I'm sick or dealing with something hard they are supportive. To me that is what it means to be reciprocal in a friendship. Who pays for what is just a logistical issue and sometimes that's split and sometimes one side takes on more of it. Whatever.

They still give you things. That’s transactional by your definition. That’s expected but others are doing literally nothing but taking.

No it's not transactional because there is no ledger. I'm not sitting around thinking "gosh I was really supportive of Kelly when she broke her fit and also when her dad died but then when I had gall bladder surgery she was busy with work and wasn't as supportive." Instead I just do what feels right to me and I accept what my friends have to offer and unless it feels really one way then it's enough and it doesn't have to be equal.

You are fixating on how many times you've hosted and how much it costs and how your friend has not spent the same amount of money on you. THAT is transactional.

But you could quickly rattle off the things they do. Weird since you supposedly don’t keep track. Point is if it was nothing you would eventually notice.

If I had a friend who literally never did anything for me then I would not notice "eventually." I would notice immediately and not become friends with them.

Are you really saying these friends never do anything at all even just ask you how you're doing or express interest in your life or something. I do not believe you.

How would you notice “immediately” if you’re not a bean counter? I thought people don’t even keep track?

Op here. I definitely don’t notice immediately. I just started feeling this and was thinking of all the people we know. There are the people who are very giving and we lost track and definitely don’t have any kind of tally. Then there are people we have known for 2-15 years who just never give anything.

And it doesn’t have to be a meal pick up, just a thoughtful gesture. They just accept and accept and accept.

Like what kind of thoughtful gesture though. You suggest picking up a meal and people pointed out that this feels kind of awkward and transactional (I agree). A lot of people have mentioned that they always bring hostess gifts or contribute food or drinks to a gathering. I'm trying to figure out what would satisfy your frustration here.

It really feels like you're focused on the money here and want something of financial value and that rubs me the wrong way. If you have this approach it's going to limit your friendships to only people who both have similar finances to you AND similar spending habits. I don't think you realize how narrow that is.

This actually has absolutely nothing to do with money. It has everything to do with my kids and other people who don’t reciprocate. I don’t need anyone to buy my kid(s) anything. Invite them over. Take them to the park. I’m always the one inviting, driving, taking kids out and yes, spending money. The money spending isn’t so much the problem since my kids like the company. I just wish there was some reciprocity. That is all.

I have a bunch of kids over now.

^ pp consider that it would be appropriate to go to their house. You need to enjoy their house. There certainly are things to enjoy.

We love hosting. We have a nice backyard with a pool, ninja course, fire pit, and a projector/foldable screen for movies. It is SO much easier to have people over - we get to plan the menu, the guest list, the day, the time, we can drink without worrying about driving... I would not expect anyone to reciprocate since I almost feel like they are doing us a favor coming over. I would hate for someone to decline an invitation because they are worried about having to reciprocate.

Presumably, if people are friends, they will naturally reciprocate at some point by bringing a dish or helping clean up after a party or watching your kids in a pinch or offering a listening ear when you need one (whatever the case might be). If you are not getting anything out of a relationship, you are free to end it.

I host a lot. Reciprocation has been minimal in DS14 friend group of several years that turned into genuine mom friendships that will continue even after ours kids leave. The boys have several overlapping connections between sports/clubs but not everyone is part of every club/sport. Observations over several years….
Alex has a severely handicapped brother. Their family is too stressed to reciprocate. Mom always mentions she wants to, I always tell her we understand. And I do. But she also complains that her child seems to be excluded from other friends’ events. Most of the stuff he hasn’t been “invited” to was impromptu things based on whatever club/sport we were just at with whatever assortment from the friend group. (example – sport he didn’t join – going out to eat after a competition). I’ve become the glue that keeps this family connected to the others, as his extracurriculars have not been aligning with the rest of the friend group and their family withdrew from activities due to some health issues- but are starting to rejoin things again.
Brady is from single parent family with a small apartment. Mom has never had anyone over to their house. But she will always invite others to their outings – usually something every few weeks, like going to an amusement park. This counts as reciprocation in my book. She also always hangs out when I’m doing a larger kid gathering at my house. I don’t need the help, but it is nice to have a friend to talk to. She also tries very hard to include everyone. Example: 3 of his friends were in an after-school club with my son. After the club weekly meeting, all three had to go to a religious class. We are not the same religion, so obviously not going to the religious class. The mom would bring dinner (usually Panera) so the kids could eat something before going to the class. After seeing this a couple times, my son mentioned if she had any for him, and she started including him in her Panera order. That was so thoughtful – and completely unnecessary – but it was a great way to include my son. My son didn’t need to eat with them – but he felt a little excluded and it was nice for her to start including him. Even though she does not “host” – I think of her contribution/involvement to this friend group on the same level as mine. Things like carpooling, helping out, etc.
Connor comes from a big family, that is always running in different directions with their kids. Scheduling nightmare for them.
Devon’s mom has severe anxiety.
Evan comes from a large blended family. Not only running different directions, but going to different homes.
On one hand, I would like them to host / invite to whatever more often. But then I examine why I feel this way. I’m not overwhelmed hosting. My son wants his friends to come to our house. I will keep hosting until my son stops asking for friends to come over. And yes, I love being “that house” where the teenagers gather. I think them reciprocating would make me feel valued for my efforts – but that is my own internal need for validation, not an actual reason why they need to reciprocate. And most of them do “things” to assist me or others - carpooling, hostess gifts, etc.

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Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

+1, these are different things. When we go out with other families or couples we generally go dutch except in rare circumstances where there is a special reason on family treats.

Hosting in homes in s a separate thing and people who like and can more easily host do. Others who don't host contribute to these gatherings in other ways (bringing alcohol or specific dishes, just being helpful and pleasant guests and helping entertain kids or helping grill or helping set up or take down). Some people are better at hosting and others are better at being guests and you need both. I think it's as much a function of personality as resources.

Op here. There are families who just never offer anything for the years we have known them. We know families whose kids we have hosted, taken out to eat, fed in our home so many times and the other family never invites or hosts or takes my kid out. I have one friend who I met a decade ago who happily accepts any and all invitations but has never once invited me to anything. She is a good guest and brings cookies and if we go out, always pays her share. She has never treated me to anything in the decade I have known her. We have probably hosted her in my home 50+ times.

You are talking about different things here.

First if you are inviting another kid out and paying their way you should understand this isn't that common. I have done that for a few of my kids' friends usually for a birthday but it has never occurred to me that they would then invite my kid for something. I did that stuff FOR my kid -- she wanted to go to the movies or to a nail salon for her birthday so we invited a couple of her friends and I foot the bill because it was for her birthday. I know not all families want to or can do stuff like that (I think being a parent of an only is a factor here) so it's never even crossed my mind that my kid doesn't get those invites. I just don't think that's something all families do.

as for the friend who never invites you to things -- does she invite anyone to things? It sounds to me like she is just more of a guest than a host. This is how it is -- not everyone hosts. If she's a good guest and gracious and brings a gift she's already doing better than a lot of people. If she is a good friend otherwise (listens to you and cares about you) the I just don't see why it matters if she has you to her home or not.

And since she pays her own way when you go out then why bother hosting at all if the lack of reciprocation bugs you. Just go out with her and no one hosts and everyone pays for themselves and then there's no unevenness. Fixating on her doing this thing that you do but that she clearly does not want to do is not a good way to conduct a friendship. You are not going to turn her into a host by getting mad at her for not hosting. She doesn't want to host. Let it go.

My OP was just a general vent. I was just giving examples but there are tens of different families I could think of. Of course we do have friends who reciprocate. There are people who seem ok with always taking and never giving. It isn’t necessarily a tally of my 10 to your 1. It is more like my 100 to your never.

I do think kids and families enjoy coming over. My kids have a lot of friends. Parents seem to trust us and have no problem having their kids come over, hang out, eat and go out with us.

If it bothers you then don't invite those people anymore. But don't expect them to do something they've never done before just because you keep inviting them.

People have offered several reasons in the thread as to why they never host. Small homes or kids with special needs (which might not be visible to others) or other stressors or limitations. You are ignoring these explanations and insisting that they must host. Okay but some people are never going to host. You can accept that and move on or you can keep banging your head against this wall.

I truly don't get why this is making you so bitter. I can also think of a bunch of people I've hosted in my home many times who have never hosted me. It's never occurred to me to be mad about it. Perhaps you secretly don't like hosting and just do it out of obligation and it makes you mad others don't also just do it out of obligation. Otherwise I just don't get this.

This is us at the moment. Our home is nice, but we are in a weird purge era right now. We're also badly in need of an interior paint job and new couch. Everything is sanitary but kind of shabby and a little cluttered, so I don't feel comfortable hosting just yet. Now, would I care if someone invited me over and their home wasn't showroom ready? Absolutely not, so I know this makes no sense.

I think my home is pretty normal/lived-in, but I am self-conscious about it (maybe unnecessarily so) so I haven't invited any of my kids' friends over for awhile. Our close adult friends with or without kids, people we've known since before we were even married? Sure, no problem. But more casual friends, no, not right now.

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Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

But that's not what is being suggested. OP is saying that if Family A hosts dinner at their house and Family B cannot/will not reciprocate by hosting, then Family B should take Family A out to dinner and pick up the bill. That's a weird and awkward expectation in my opinion. It's very transactional and would make me feel like they were literally paying me back. That's not my goal with hosting.

It would be nice for the other family to offer. Why not? Do you think hosting is free?

I just don't think of it transactionally like that. Sure hosting costs money. But I don't sit around thinking "we spent XYZ on having the Johnsons over last week." Like that money is just rolled into the cost of living. We like hosting. We like cooking and sharing food with friends.

It sounds like you think of hosting as an obligation or burden. To me it's more like a hobby or a fun activity. We could host this weekend or we could go to the beach. Both will cost money but I don't expect whoever we host to pay us back anymore than I expect the beach to pay me back. I would enjoy both activities.

It’s not a transaction. I can acknowledge someone has been kind and generous to me and want to do something in return. What kind of friends do people have where this isn’t the case?

I just think you are narrowly defining "something in return" as hosting or paying for something. But like I have friends who can never afford to host me or pay for something. But the still give me things. Their time and attention and affection. They are kind to my kids. They tell good stories. If I'm sick or dealing with something hard they are supportive. To me that is what it means to be reciprocal in a friendship. Who pays for what is just a logistical issue and sometimes that's split and sometimes one side takes on more of it. Whatever.

They still give you things. That’s transactional by your definition. That’s expected but others are doing literally nothing but taking.

No it's not transactional because there is no ledger. I'm not sitting around thinking "gosh I was really supportive of Kelly when she broke her fit and also when her dad died but then when I had gall bladder surgery she was busy with work and wasn't as supportive." Instead I just do what feels right to me and I accept what my friends have to offer and unless it feels really one way then it's enough and it doesn't have to be equal.

You are fixating on how many times you've hosted and how much it costs and how your friend has not spent the same amount of money on you. THAT is transactional.

But you could quickly rattle off the things they do. Weird since you supposedly don’t keep track. Point is if it was nothing you would eventually notice.

If I had a friend who literally never did anything for me then I would not notice "eventually." I would notice immediately and not become friends with them.

Are you really saying these friends never do anything at all even just ask you how you're doing or express interest in your life or something. I do not believe you.

How would you notice “immediately” if you’re not a bean counter? I thought people don’t even keep track?

I am beginning to understand why you don't get invited to things.

I notice immediately if someone never asks me how I am or expresses an interest in my life. If I'm the only one asking questions and they are talking a lot about themselves but never asking about me I'm going to pick up on that right away. Not because I'm counting the seconds we each talk or keeping score but because I can tell that they aren't interested in me and not trying to get to know me. They aren't doing the things that people do when they want to know someone more. So I will assume they aren't very interested in me and likely not pursue a friendship with them.

That is different than what you are doing. If you are the same PP who said that she has a friend who comes to everything she is invited to and is a good guest and brings food or a gift but never invites back then you are ignoring all these things your friend is doing that show she cares (showing up when invited and talking and listening to you and even bringing cookies or a gift to share or just in gratitude) and insisting that she must reciprocate in the exact same way. That is score keeping. She's offering you lots of stuff but you will only accept reciprocation that takes the same form and is exactly equal. Well then she's not the friend for you because it doesn't sound like she is every going to host.

What am I doing? You’re projecting a lot of nonsense which has nothing to do with what I have said.

Lady you are being incredibly demanding and combative here. You asked a question and people tried to answer it. Your response has been to belittle and criticize and rip people apart for their good faith efforts to answer your question.

This may be precisely why some people choose to never invite you anywhere but are okay coming to your house and eating your food.

Psycho, there is more than one person responding in here. Maybe take a break.

I don’t keep score. I host when we feel like it, invite whom we want, drive other people’s children places and take them on vacation, and I do it without regard to how often they reciprocate. I truly don’t care.

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Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

But that's not what is being suggested. OP is saying that if Family A hosts dinner at their house and Family B cannot/will not reciprocate by hosting, then Family B should take Family A out to dinner and pick up the bill. That's a weird and awkward expectation in my opinion. It's very transactional and would make me feel like they were literally paying me back. That's not my goal with hosting.

It would be nice for the other family to offer. Why not? Do you think hosting is free?

I just don't think of it transactionally like that. Sure hosting costs money. But I don't sit around thinking "we spent XYZ on having the Johnsons over last week." Like that money is just rolled into the cost of living. We like hosting. We like cooking and sharing food with friends.

It sounds like you think of hosting as an obligation or burden. To me it's more like a hobby or a fun activity. We could host this weekend or we could go to the beach. Both will cost money but I don't expect whoever we host to pay us back anymore than I expect the beach to pay me back. I would enjoy both activities.

It’s not a transaction. I can acknowledge someone has been kind and generous to me and want to do something in return. What kind of friends do people have where this isn’t the case?

I just think you are narrowly defining "something in return" as hosting or paying for something. But like I have friends who can never afford to host me or pay for something. But the still give me things. Their time and attention and affection. They are kind to my kids. They tell good stories. If I'm sick or dealing with something hard they are supportive. To me that is what it means to be reciprocal in a friendship. Who pays for what is just a logistical issue and sometimes that's split and sometimes one side takes on more of it. Whatever.

They still give you things. That’s transactional by your definition. That’s expected but others are doing literally nothing but taking.

No it's not transactional because there is no ledger. I'm not sitting around thinking "gosh I was really supportive of Kelly when she broke her fit and also when her dad died but then when I had gall bladder surgery she was busy with work and wasn't as supportive." Instead I just do what feels right to me and I accept what my friends have to offer and unless it feels really one way then it's enough and it doesn't have to be equal.

You are fixating on how many times you've hosted and how much it costs and how your friend has not spent the same amount of money on you. THAT is transactional.

But you could quickly rattle off the things they do. Weird since you supposedly don’t keep track. Point is if it was nothing you would eventually notice.

If I had a friend who literally never did anything for me then I would not notice "eventually." I would notice immediately and not become friends with them.

Are you really saying these friends never do anything at all even just ask you how you're doing or express interest in your life or something. I do not believe you.

How would you notice “immediately” if you’re not a bean counter? I thought people don’t even keep track?

I am beginning to understand why you don't get invited to things.

I notice immediately if someone never asks me how I am or expresses an interest in my life. If I'm the only one asking questions and they are talking a lot about themselves but never asking about me I'm going to pick up on that right away. Not because I'm counting the seconds we each talk or keeping score but because I can tell that they aren't interested in me and not trying to get to know me. They aren't doing the things that people do when they want to know someone more. So I will assume they aren't very interested in me and likely not pursue a friendship with them.

That is different than what you are doing. If you are the same PP who said that she has a friend who comes to everything she is invited to and is a good guest and brings food or a gift but never invites back then you are ignoring all these things your friend is doing that show she cares (showing up when invited and talking and listening to you and even bringing cookies or a gift to share or just in gratitude) and insisting that she must reciprocate in the exact same way. That is score keeping. She's offering you lots of stuff but you will only accept reciprocation that takes the same form and is exactly equal. Well then she's not the friend for you because it doesn't sound like she is every going to host.

What am I doing? You’re projecting a lot of nonsense which has nothing to do with what I have said.

Lady you are being incredibly demanding and combative here. You asked a question and people tried to answer it. Your response has been to belittle and criticize and rip people apart for their good faith efforts to answer your question.

This may be precisely why some people choose to never invite you anywhere but are okay coming to your house and eating your food.

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Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

But that's not what is being suggested. OP is saying that if Family A hosts dinner at their house and Family B cannot/will not reciprocate by hosting, then Family B should take Family A out to dinner and pick up the bill. That's a weird and awkward expectation in my opinion. It's very transactional and would make me feel like they were literally paying me back. That's not my goal with hosting.

It would be nice for the other family to offer. Why not? Do you think hosting is free?

I just don't think of it transactionally like that. Sure hosting costs money. But I don't sit around thinking "we spent XYZ on having the Johnsons over last week." Like that money is just rolled into the cost of living. We like hosting. We like cooking and sharing food with friends.

It sounds like you think of hosting as an obligation or burden. To me it's more like a hobby or a fun activity. We could host this weekend or we could go to the beach. Both will cost money but I don't expect whoever we host to pay us back anymore than I expect the beach to pay me back. I would enjoy both activities.

It’s not a transaction. I can acknowledge someone has been kind and generous to me and want to do something in return. What kind of friends do people have where this isn’t the case?

I just think you are narrowly defining "something in return" as hosting or paying for something. But like I have friends who can never afford to host me or pay for something. But the still give me things. Their time and attention and affection. They are kind to my kids. They tell good stories. If I'm sick or dealing with something hard they are supportive. To me that is what it means to be reciprocal in a friendship. Who pays for what is just a logistical issue and sometimes that's split and sometimes one side takes on more of it. Whatever.

They still give you things. That’s transactional by your definition. That’s expected but others are doing literally nothing but taking.

No it's not transactional because there is no ledger. I'm not sitting around thinking "gosh I was really supportive of Kelly when she broke her fit and also when her dad died but then when I had gall bladder surgery she was busy with work and wasn't as supportive." Instead I just do what feels right to me and I accept what my friends have to offer and unless it feels really one way then it's enough and it doesn't have to be equal.

You are fixating on how many times you've hosted and how much it costs and how your friend has not spent the same amount of money on you. THAT is transactional.

But you could quickly rattle off the things they do. Weird since you supposedly don’t keep track. Point is if it was nothing you would eventually notice.

If I had a friend who literally never did anything for me then I would not notice "eventually." I would notice immediately and not become friends with them.

Are you really saying these friends never do anything at all even just ask you how you're doing or express interest in your life or something. I do not believe you.

How would you notice “immediately” if you’re not a bean counter? I thought people don’t even keep track?

Op here. I definitely don’t notice immediately. I just started feeling this and was thinking of all the people we know. There are the people who are very giving and we lost track and definitely don’t have any kind of tally. Then there are people we have known for 2-15 years who just never give anything.

And it doesn’t have to be a meal pick up, just a thoughtful gesture. They just accept and accept and accept.

Like what kind of thoughtful gesture though. You suggest picking up a meal and people pointed out that this feels kind of awkward and transactional (I agree). A lot of people have mentioned that they always bring hostess gifts or contribute food or drinks to a gathering. I'm trying to figure out what would satisfy your frustration here.

It really feels like you're focused on the money here and want something of financial value and that rubs me the wrong way. If you have this approach it's going to limit your friendships to only people who both have similar finances to you AND similar spending habits. I don't think you realize how narrow that is.

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Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

Ok, different strokes. We take turns paying with friends. But money is no object.

But that's not what is being suggested. OP is saying that if Family A hosts dinner at their house and Family B cannot/will not reciprocate by hosting, then Family B should take Family A out to dinner and pick up the bill. That's a weird and awkward expectation in my opinion. It's very transactional and would make me feel like they were literally paying me back. That's not my goal with hosting.

It would be nice for the other family to offer. Why not? Do you think hosting is free?

I just don't think of it transactionally like that. Sure hosting costs money. But I don't sit around thinking "we spent XYZ on having the Johnsons over last week." Like that money is just rolled into the cost of living. We like hosting. We like cooking and sharing food with friends.

It sounds like you think of hosting as an obligation or burden. To me it's more like a hobby or a fun activity. We could host this weekend or we could go to the beach. Both will cost money but I don't expect whoever we host to pay us back anymore than I expect the beach to pay me back. I would enjoy both activities.

It’s not a transaction. I can acknowledge someone has been kind and generous to me and want to do something in return. What kind of friends do people have where this isn’t the case?

I just think you are narrowly defining "something in return" as hosting or paying for something. But like I have friends who can never afford to host me or pay for something. But the still give me things. Their time and attention and affection. They are kind to my kids. They tell good stories. If I'm sick or dealing with something hard they are supportive. To me that is what it means to be reciprocal in a friendship. Who pays for what is just a logistical issue and sometimes that's split and sometimes one side takes on more of it. Whatever.

They still give you things. That’s transactional by your definition. That’s expected but others are doing literally nothing but taking.

No it's not transactional because there is no ledger. I'm not sitting around thinking "gosh I was really supportive of Kelly when she broke her fit and also when her dad died but then when I had gall bladder surgery she was busy with work and wasn't as supportive." Instead I just do what feels right to me and I accept what my friends have to offer and unless it feels really one way then it's enough and it doesn't have to be equal.

You are fixating on how many times you've hosted and how much it costs and how your friend has not spent the same amount of money on you. THAT is transactional.

But you could quickly rattle off the things they do. Weird since you supposedly don’t keep track. Point is if it was nothing you would eventually notice.

If I had a friend who literally never did anything for me then I would not notice "eventually." I would notice immediately and not become friends with them.

Are you really saying these friends never do anything at all even just ask you how you're doing or express interest in your life or something. I do not believe you.

How would you notice “immediately” if you’re not a bean counter? I thought people don’t even keep track?

I am beginning to understand why you don't get invited to things.

I notice immediately if someone never asks me how I am or expresses an interest in my life. If I'm the only one asking questions and they are talking a lot about themselves but never asking about me I'm going to pick up on that right away. Not because I'm counting the seconds we each talk or keeping score but because I can tell that they aren't interested in me and not trying to get to know me. They aren't doing the things that people do when they want to know someone more. So I will assume they aren't very interested in me and likely not pursue a friendship with them.

That is different than what you are doing. If you are the same PP who said that she has a friend who comes to everything she is invited to and is a good guest and brings food or a gift but never invites back then you are ignoring all these things your friend is doing that show she cares (showing up when invited and talking and listening to you and even bringing cookies or a gift to share or just in gratitude) and insisting that she must reciprocate in the exact same way. That is score keeping. She's offering you lots of stuff but you will only accept reciprocation that takes the same form and is exactly equal. Well then she's not the friend for you because it doesn't sound like she is every going to host.

What am I doing? You’re projecting a lot of nonsense which has nothing to do with what I have said.

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Anonymous wrote:First off, you don't need to pay for everything when you go out. Each pay your own except when you have the kids alone then you pay. You invite, your choice. Stop hosting and inviting.

+1 -- stop insisting on paying. That's actually weird and I would find it stressful if another family was always insisting on paying for outings (and then privately seething because we are not reciprocating -- if it's a joint outing then why wouldn't we all just pay our own way).

Likewise when you host at home do it in a way that is more communal and then it matters less if they are able to host at their home in the same way. Host but ask if they can bring dessert or a salad. Say "hey if you have any yard games for the kids you should bring them!" in order to communicate that it can be a joint effort. This can take some of the pressure off you and also gives them ways to contribute without having to feel like they have to be able to host you in the exact same way in order to reciprocate.

I think what’s being suggested is that if you never host and constantly take because you have a small home, or can’t plan, or don’t like having people over, or whatever over that you could reciprocate by picking up a bill once in awhile.

I host all the time because I enjoy hosting and I would find it super weird if I was out to dinner with a couple and they offered to pick up the bill. Not sure why? They don't seem analogous

+1, these are different things. When we go out with other families or couples we generally go dutch except in rare circumstances where there is a special reason on family treats.

Hosting in homes in s a separate thing and people who like and can more easily host do. Others who don't host contribute to these gatherings in other ways (bringing alcohol or specific dishes, just being helpful and pleasant guests and helping entertain kids or helping grill or helping set up or take down). Some people are better at hosting and others are better at being guests and you need both. I think it's as much a function of personality as resources.

Op here. There are families who just never offer anything for the years we have known them. We know families whose kids we have hosted, taken out to eat, fed in our home so many times and the other family never invites or hosts or takes my kid out. I have one friend who I met a decade ago who happily accepts any and all invitations but has never once invited me to anything. She is a good guest and brings cookies and if we go out, always pays her share. She has never treated me to anything in the decade I have known her. We have probably hosted her in my home 50+ times.

You are talking about different things here.

First if you are inviting another kid out and paying their way you should understand this isn't that common. I have done that for a few of my kids' friends usually for a birthday but it has never occurred to me that they would then invite my kid for something. I did that stuff FOR my kid -- she wanted to go to the movies or to a nail salon for her birthday so we invited a couple of her friends and I foot the bill because it was for her birthday. I know not all families want to or can do stuff like that (I think being a parent of an only is a factor here) so it's never even crossed my mind that my kid doesn't get those invites. I just don't think that's something all families do.

as for the friend who never invites you to things -- does she invite anyone to things? It sounds to me like she is just more of a guest than a host. This is how it is -- not everyone hosts. If she's a good guest and gracious and brings a gift she's already doing better than a lot of people. If she is a good friend otherwise (listens to you and cares about you) the I just don't see why it matters if she has you to her home or not.

And since she pays her own way when you go out then why bother hosting at all if the lack of reciprocation bugs you. Just go out with her and no one hosts and everyone pays for themselves and then there's no unevenness. Fixating on her doing this thing that you do but that she clearly does not want to do is not a good way to conduct a friendship. You are not going to turn her into a host by getting mad at her for not hosting. She doesn't want to host. Let it go.

My OP was just a general vent. I was just giving examples but there are tens of different families I could think of. Of course we do have friends who reciprocate. There are people who seem ok with always taking and never giving. It isn’t necessarily a tally of my 10 to your 1. It is more like my 100 to your never.

I do think kids and families enjoy coming over. My kids have a lot of friends. Parents seem to trust us and have no problem having their kids come over, hang out, eat and go out with us.

If it bothers you then don't invite those people anymore. But don't expect them to do something they've never done before just because you keep inviting them.

People have offered several reasons in the thread as to why they never host. Small homes or kids with special needs (which might not be visible to others) or other stressors or limitations. You are ignoring these explanations and insisting that they must host. Okay but some people are never going to host. You can accept that and move on or you can keep banging your head against this wall.

I truly don't get why this is making you so bitter. I can also think of a bunch of people I've hosted in my home many times who have never hosted me. It's never occurred to me to be mad about it. Perhaps you secretly don't like hosting and just do it out of obligation and it makes you mad others don't also just do it out of obligation. Otherwise I just don't get this.