Anonymous
08/24/2024 14:22
Subject: Data Analysts - Where are you? (CAPE)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:a big Basis selling point is the test scores. discussions about Basis almost always emphasize them.
You don’t have to make false comparisons to talk about the test scores. You could honestly say “at the end of 10th grade, after six years at the school, almost all BASIS students can pass an Algebra I exam.”
Maybe but you can definitely say with complete accuracy that "at the end of 10th grade, a majority of students at every other so-called top school--namely Walls, Banneker, J-R, Latin, and DCI--is below grade level in math."
You cannot say this because it isn’t true. Very few 10th graders at some of these schools even take the CAPE. Because they are already in Precalc or AP Calc. The only way to do a true comparison is to have all kids in 10th grade at these schools take the Algebra I CAPE. Then you can compare the numbers.
Anonymous
08/24/2024 13:09
Subject: Data Analysts - Where are you? (CAPE)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:a big Basis selling point is the test scores. discussions about Basis almost always emphasize them.
You don’t have to make false comparisons to talk about the test scores. You could honestly say “at the end of 10th grade, after six years at the school, almost all BASIS students can pass an Algebra I exam.”
Maybe but you can definitely say with complete accuracy that "at the end of 10th grade, a majority of students at every other so-called top school--namely Walls, Banneker, J-R, Latin, and DCI--is below grade level in math."
No, you don't get it. Many of the 10th graders are already past Algebra II so they don't take any PARCC at all and aren't captured in the data. Because they are above.
Also, if a kid takes a PARCC that's officially for a higher level (like a 9th grader taking Geometry rather than Algebra I), and they don't pass, that doesn't make them below grade level. A kid who got a 4 on the Algebra I PARCC as an 8th grader and then gets a 3 when they take the Geometry PARCC as a 9th grader isn't below grade. They're just not quite a full year above grade, or slacked in Geometry, or whatever the reason is. It doesn't change the fact that they already passed Algebra I and are therefore on grade level.
Right now the high school PARCC data shows 9th, 10th, and 11th graders who are on or below grade level, some of the 9th and 10th graders who are above grade level, and excludes the majority of students who are above grade level. It's really a bizarre way to report the data, but we're stuck with it.
If OSSE combed through this data and reported the percentage of students who have already taken and passed the PARCC for their grade in a prior year, the figures would be very different.
Anonymous
08/24/2024 12:44
Subject: Data Analysts - Where are you? (CAPE)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm not bothered by the basis kids scoring well on material at their grade level because they are so far ahead of grade level. Make they're cooking the books somehow, but that's not what this is.
Algebra I is not “at their grade level” for 10th graders. It’s remedial.
And it’s “cooking the books” whenever you use the numbers to compare BASIS to any other school.
This is a dumb take.
Basis starts algebra and geometry in 7th grade. They didn't develop their curriculum to track CAPE testing, and no one expects 7th graders to be tested on algebra and geometry in 7th grade.
The fact is that, as a general matter, the Basis math curriculum is the most advanced among public schools in DC. So, it is no surprise that, by 10th grade, they have the highest math CAPE scores in DC.
Most 10th graders are taking AP Calculus AB in 10th grade (and many took AP Precalculus in 9th grade), and some are taking Calculus BC. There is no CAPE test for that.
By PP's absurd logic, schools such as TJ in Fairfax County are "cooking the books" on SAT/ACT math scores (average math SAT is 780 and average math ACT is 35) because they teach math at such a high level and kids are taking the SAT and ACT after having taken math at that level.
The point is that you cannot compare high school scores between BASIS and other schools because BASIS handles CAPE testing differently from every other middle and high school in DC.
At all other schools, the advanced students take Algebra and Geometry CAPE tests early on and are largely not testing at all once they reach the high school grades. At BASIS, all students are still testing in the high school grades. There's an obvious selection effect there that makes it so the scores are not directly comparable.
Anonymous
08/24/2024 12:30
Subject: Data Analysts - Where are you? (CAPE)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm not bothered by the basis kids scoring well on material at their grade level because they are so far ahead of grade level. Make they're cooking the books somehow, but that's not what this is.
Algebra I is not “at their grade level” for 10th graders. It’s remedial.
And it’s “cooking the books” whenever you use the numbers to compare BASIS to any other school.
This is a dumb take.
Basis starts algebra and geometry in 7th grade. They didn't develop their curriculum to track CAPE testing, and no one expects 7th graders to be tested on algebra and geometry in 7th grade.
The fact is that, as a general matter, the Basis math curriculum is the most advanced among public schools in DC. So, it is no surprise that, by 10th grade, they have the highest math CAPE scores in DC.
Most 10th graders are taking AP Calculus AB in 10th grade (and many took AP Precalculus in 9th grade), and some are taking Calculus BC. There is no CAPE test for that.
By PP's absurd logic, schools such as TJ in Fairfax County are "cooking the books" on SAT/ACT math scores (average math SAT is 780 and average math ACT is 35) because they teach math at such a high level and kids are taking the SAT and ACT after having taken math at that level.
What do you mean, “no one expects 7th graders to be tested on Algebra and Geometry”? My DCPS 7th grader took the Algebra I PARCC. Why shouldn’t I expect something that routinely happens and, in fact, has already happened to my kid?
Anonymous
08/24/2024 12:11
Subject: Data Analysts - Where are you? (CAPE)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I'm not bothered by the basis kids scoring well on material at their grade level because they are so far ahead of grade level. Make they're cooking the books somehow, but that's not what this is.
Algebra I is not “at their grade level” for 10th graders. It’s remedial.
And it’s “cooking the books” whenever you use the numbers to compare BASIS to any other school.
This is a dumb take.
Basis starts algebra and geometry in 7th grade. They didn't develop their curriculum to track CAPE testing, and no one expects 7th graders to be tested on algebra and geometry in 7th grade.
The fact is that, as a general matter, the Basis math curriculum is the most advanced among public schools in DC. So, it is no surprise that, by 10th grade, they have the highest math CAPE scores in DC.
Most 10th graders are taking AP Calculus AB in 10th grade (and many took AP Precalculus in 9th grade), and some are taking Calculus BC. There is no CAPE test for that.
By PP's absurd logic, schools such as TJ in Fairfax County are "cooking the books" on SAT/ACT math scores (average math SAT is 780 and average math ACT is 35) because they teach math at such a high level and kids are taking the SAT and ACT after having taken math at that level.
Anonymous
08/24/2024 12:08
Subject: Data Analysts - Where are you? (CAPE)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:a big Basis selling point is the test scores. discussions about Basis almost always emphasize them.
You don’t have to make false comparisons to talk about the test scores. You could honestly say “at the end of 10th grade, after six years at the school, almost all BASIS students can pass an Algebra I exam.”
Maybe but you can definitely say with complete accuracy that "at the end of 10th grade, a majority of students at every other so-called top school--namely Walls, Banneker, J-R, Latin, and DCI--is below grade level in math."
No, you don't get it. Many of the 10th graders are already past Algebra II so they don't take any PARCC at all and aren't captured in the data. Because they are above.
Anonymous
08/24/2024 11:59
Subject: Data Analysts - Where are you? (CAPE)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:a big Basis selling point is the test scores. discussions about Basis almost always emphasize them.
You don’t have to make false comparisons to talk about the test scores. You could honestly say “at the end of 10th grade, after six years at the school, almost all BASIS students can pass an Algebra I exam.”
Maybe but you can definitely say with complete accuracy that "at the end of 10th grade, a majority of students at every other so-called top school--namely Walls, Banneker, J-R, Latin, and DCI--is below grade level in math."
Anonymous
08/24/2024 11:29
Subject: Data Analysts - Where are you? (CAPE)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Big improvement at Two Rivers, all campuses.
Slight dip at ITDS.
Uh -- is this sarcasm.
I was struck by how bad Two Rivers 4th's numbers were across the board. To give a sense of perspective here are the "all students" stats for TR4 and nearby Title 1 JO Wilson -- JOW has 64% at risk population compared to TR4's 33%:
Two Rivers 4th is reporting 48.8% proficient (3+) in math and 50.4% proficient (3+) in ELA. For 4+ proficiency it's 26.8% in math and 27.6% in ELA. TR4 is showing declining test scores in all metrics.
J.O. Wilson is reporting 44% proficient (3+) in math and 57.3% proficient (3+) in ELA. For 4+ proficiency it's 21.7% in math and 35% in ELA. JOW is showing improving test scores in all metrics.
I don't say this to tout how great JOW is (just 22% of their 3rd-5th graders are getting 4s or 5s on the math CAPE) but to illustrate how badly TR4 is performing. Keep in mind JOW has a majority at risk population AND the at risk population in grades 3-5 is actually much higher than the overall 64% number due to attrition among high income families after PK. Yet they are coming close to or *beating* TR4 on most metrics. That is embarrassing.
That was me-- no sarcasm just reading the data wrong. There are so many elements in the dashboard, it's easy to mess it up.
Fair enough. It does take a bit of a learning curve to figure out what all the metrics are and how to set it so you can do direct comparison.
Anonymous
08/24/2024 11:27
Subject: Data Analysts - Where are you? (CAPE)
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Big improvement at Two Rivers, all campuses.
Slight dip at ITDS.
Uh -- is this sarcasm.
I was struck by how bad Two Rivers 4th's numbers were across the board. To give a sense of perspective here are the "all students" stats for TR4 and nearby Title 1 JO Wilson -- JOW has 64% at risk population compared to TR4's 33%:
Two Rivers 4th is reporting 48.8% proficient (3+) in math and 50.4% proficient (3+) in ELA. For 4+ proficiency it's 26.8% in math and 27.6% in ELA. TR4 is showing declining test scores in all metrics.
J.O. Wilson is reporting 44% proficient (3+) in math and 57.3% proficient (3+) in ELA. For 4+ proficiency it's 21.7% in math and 35% in ELA. JOW is showing improving test scores in all metrics.
I don't say this to tout how great JOW is (just 22% of their 3rd-5th graders are getting 4s or 5s on the math CAPE) but to illustrate how badly TR4 is performing. Keep in mind JOW has a majority at risk population AND the at risk population in grades 3-5 is actually much higher than the overall 64% number due to attrition among high income families after PK. Yet they are coming close to or *beating* TR4 on most metrics. That is embarrassing.
That was me-- no sarcasm just reading the data wrong. There are so many elements in the dashboard, it's easy to mess it up.
Anonymous
08/24/2024 11:22
Subject: Data Analysts - Where are you? (CAPE)
Anonymous wrote:Big improvement at Two Rivers, all campuses.
Slight dip at ITDS.
Uh -- is this sarcasm.
I was struck by how bad Two Rivers 4th's numbers were across the board. To give a sense of perspective here are the "all students" stats for TR4 and nearby Title 1 JO Wilson -- JOW has 64% at risk population compared to TR4's 33%:
Two Rivers 4th is reporting 48.8% proficient (3+) in math and 50.4% proficient (3+) in ELA. For 4+ proficiency it's 26.8% in math and 27.6% in ELA. TR4 is showing declining test scores in all metrics.
J.O. Wilson is reporting 44% proficient (3+) in math and 57.3% proficient (3+) in ELA. For 4+ proficiency it's 21.7% in math and 35% in ELA. JOW is showing improving test scores in all metrics.
I don't say this to tout how great JOW is (just 22% of their 3rd-5th graders are getting 4s or 5s on the math CAPE) but to illustrate how badly TR4 is performing. Keep in mind JOW has a majority at risk population AND the at risk population in grades 3-5 is actually much higher than the overall 64% number due to attrition among high income families after PK. Yet they are coming close to or *beating* TR4 on most metrics. That is embarrassing.
Anonymous
08/24/2024 10:36
Subject: Data Analysts - Where are you? (CAPE)
Anonymous wrote:a big Basis selling point is the test scores. discussions about Basis almost always emphasize them.
You don’t have to make false comparisons to talk about the test scores. You could honestly say “at the end of 10th grade, after six years at the school, almost all BASIS students can pass an Algebra I exam.”
Anonymous
08/24/2024 10:32
Subject: Data Analysts - Where are you? (CAPE)
a big Basis selling point is the test scores. discussions about Basis almost always emphasize them.
Anonymous
08/24/2024 10:04
Subject: Data Analysts - Where are you? (CAPE)
Anonymous wrote:Ok, we are even a BASIS family and I also find it insane how every thread becomes a BASIS thread!
Yep, the Basis families jump in and make it all about them. Then they put up numbers and when called out about how the numbers are not accurate at all or comparable,, they make excuses and try to deflect. They are something else.
Anonymous
08/24/2024 08:42
Subject: Data Analysts - Where are you? (CAPE)
Ok, we are even a BASIS family and I also find it insane how every thread becomes a BASIS thread!
Anonymous
08/24/2024 08:39
Subject: Data Analysts - Where are you? (CAPE)
Anonymous wrote:I'm not bothered by the basis kids scoring well on material at their grade level because they are so far ahead of grade level. Make they're cooking the books somehow, but that's not what this is.
Algebra I is not “at their grade level” for 10th graders. It’s remedial.
And it’s “cooking the books” whenever you use the numbers to compare BASIS to any other school.