Not buying it for applicants to the most highly competitive US colleges. I have 2 teens who earned IB Diplomas and one who followed the AP curriculum. I had the IBD students double up on AP exams for several subjects. Without the AP exam scores, they would have been applying to colleges mid senior year with scores for just the 2 Standard Level exams they could take after junior year. They couldn't take their several IBD Higher Level exams until 4-6 months AFTER they'd applied to college. My kid who followed the AP curriculum got into the best college of the three. I'm sure IB Diploma students stand out and get noticed at second tier colleges without many scores to submit. That doesn't seem to be true for top colleges.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You're making it sound like IBD at DCI is on a par with the best suburban programs in the DMV. Untrue. I have nieces and nephews in IB programs in MoCo so I know that you're incorrect in thinking that there's no well tracked progression from K-12 in the burbs for immersion. My siblings' kids did Chinese immersion at College Gardens before Robert Frost MS for partial immersion (automatic feed). They've had a good many native speakers (like our family) in their classes all along. It's not difficult to test into Richard Montgomery's IBD program for Chinese and BCC has IBD for all in-boundary students who meet prerequisites. In the better suburban programs, kids can't land in IBD classes if they haven't cleared established academic bars down the chain like they can at DCI. Same story in Arlington and Fairfax. IBD FOR ALL only works so well whatever sugarcoating you want to apply. I'm prepared to believe that Latin offers more HS rigor overall, and that Latin Cooper's future HS might, too.

In Fairfax, Arlington & Loudoun kids don't need to test into GT programs to access middle school honors classes in core subjects or IB Diploma programs. Like in MoCo, students need to earn certain grades in pre-IB classes to access IB classes. In VA, teachers are paid and trained better than at DCI.

OP, unless you're all fired up about Spanish immersion, I'd go with Latin Cooper. Latin has been around a lot longer than DCI and has a much better college admissions track record, which Latin Cooper can piggyback off of. But neither DCI nor Latin (let alone Latin Cooper) offers serious extra-curriculars as compared to the burbs. If you're aiming high in college admissions, you need to seek out your own ECs and pay for them in DC charter. You probably also need to pay for decent college counseling. That's how it works.

Latin doesn't have great college admissions record. They lose many of the high performing kids after middle school.

Also AP kids are a dime a dozen, even at the high performing schools in the burbs. You stand out much more and get noticed with IB if you do well.

Anonymous wrote:You're making it sound like IBD at DCI is on a par with the best suburban programs in the DMV. Untrue. I have nieces and nephews in IB programs in MoCo so I know that you're incorrect in thinking that there's no well tracked progression from K-12 in the burbs for immersion. My siblings' kids did Chinese immersion at College Gardens before Robert Frost MS for partial immersion (automatic feed). They've had a good many native speakers (like our family) in their classes all along. It's not difficult to test into Richard Montgomery's IBD program for Chinese and BCC has IBD for all in-boundary students who meet prerequisites. In the better suburban programs, kids can't land in IBD classes if they haven't cleared established academic bars down the chain like they can at DCI. Same story in Arlington and Fairfax. IBD FOR ALL only works so well whatever sugarcoating you want to apply. I'm prepared to believe that Latin offers more HS rigor overall, and that Latin Cooper's future HS might, too.

In Fairfax, Arlington & Loudoun kids don't need to test into GT programs to access middle school honors classes in core subjects or IB Diploma programs. Like in MoCo, students need to earn certain grades in pre-IB classes to access IB classes. In VA, teachers are paid and trained better than at DCI.

OP, unless you're all fired up about Spanish immersion, I'd go with Latin Cooper. Latin has been around a lot longer than DCI and has a much better college admissions track record, which Latin Cooper can piggyback off of. But neither DCI nor Latin (let alone Latin Cooper) offers serious extra-curriculars as compared to the burbs. If you're aiming high in college admissions, you need to seek out your own ECs and pay for them in DC charter. You probably also need to pay for decent college counseling. That's how it works.

You're making it sound like IBD at DCI is on a par with the best suburban programs in the DMV. Untrue. I have nieces and nephews in IB programs in MoCo so I know that you're incorrect in thinking that there's no well tracked progression from K-12 in the burbs for immersion. My siblings' kids did Chinese immersion at College Gardens before Robert Frost MS for partial immersion (automatic feed). They've had a good many native speakers (like our family) in their classes all along. It's not difficult to test into Richard Montgomery's IBD program for Chinese and BCC has IBD for all in-boundary students who meet prerequisites. In the better suburban programs, kids can't land in IBD classes if they haven't cleared established academic bars down the chain like they can at DCI. Same story in Arlington and Fairfax. IBD FOR ALL only works so well whatever sugarcoating you want to apply. I'm prepared to believe that Latin offers more HS rigor overall, and that Latin Cooper's future HS might, too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neither DCI nor Latin Cooper has the recourses to be all that great. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

What do you mean by "recourses"? I've never heard this word used in a similar context.

If you say six of one, it's clear you don't have kids in one or both places. They are not at all similar, even if they are the decent middle school options available to many families living in the city. The difference in family engagement strategies, approaches to tech, etc. are just different. And better or worse depending on what you want.

Yes there are differences, but similarities that don't inspire, too. Neither school tracks academically across core subjects in middle school, a problem for advanced learners. Weak English, science and social studies students are lumped together in all the same middle school classes as strong ones. Neither pays teachers well, due to shoe-string charter budgets. Both experience fairly high teacher turnover, with the odd teacher quitting mid-year. Neither offers outstanding ECs, like serious instrumental music instruction or ensembles, again due to more severe budget constraints in a traditional public school. Both primarily serve students who commute at least half an hour to reach them, even an hour, meaning that your kid is unlikely to be attending with neighborhood friends. Neither attracts native speakers to language classes outside Spanish. But if your expectations are modest and in line with reality, you may be satisfied at DCI or Latin Cooper.

I would agree that the strongest schools in the burbs are better but for the city, they are the strongest EOTP. No school in the city tracks English, science, or social studies so there is that. But IB programs are very strong in ELA and writing esp if you go the IB diploma track which is a track and you have to do a required mini-thesis.

DCI is going to be the closest to what is offered in the burbs with facilities and EC’s. They have a ton of EC’s. Sure no instruments or orchestra but outside of that a lot of offerings. Also in terms of facilities, they have bio and chem labs so kids actually get labs and lectures.

It’s no secret that the spanish track is the way to go at DCI. Lots of native families, strongest track, and high performers basically grouped with other high performers to take more courses in the language. No official tracking but unofficially that is what it is.

We can easily move to the burbs but immersion is a high priority for us. BTW if you want that in the burbs, it’s a lottery too and no well tracked progression from K-12th like here. It’s a hodgepodge of elementary schools by lottery, hard to get into, and they don’t feed into definitive middle or high schools at all.

Lastly, lots of kids take metro rather than the school bus in the burbs. That’s a plus in my book because kids are more independent, get around on their own, etc…I guess if you live in CH by eastern market, it might be an hour commute but for lots of families who are north of that, it’s 1/2 hour or less. We are 3 minutes from the red line in NE so easy for our kid. Neighborhood friends only exist in ward 3 schools in middle and high school. EOTP kids go to all different schools. It’s not a big deal since they are so self sufficient with metro and public transportation.

+1

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neither DCI nor Latin Cooper has the recourses to be all that great. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

What do you mean by "recourses"? I've never heard this word used in a similar context.

If you say six of one, it's clear you don't have kids in one or both places. They are not at all similar, even if they are the decent middle school options available to many families living in the city. The difference in family engagement strategies, approaches to tech, etc. are just different. And better or worse depending on what you want.

Yes there are differences, but similarities that don't inspire, too. Neither school tracks academically across core subjects in middle school, a problem for advanced learners. Weak English, science and social studies students are lumped together in all the same middle school classes as strong ones. Neither pays teachers well, due to shoe-string charter budgets. Both experience fairly high teacher turnover, with the odd teacher quitting mid-year. Neither offers outstanding ECs, like serious instrumental music instruction or ensembles, again due to more severe budget constraints in a traditional public school. Both primarily serve students who commute at least half an hour to reach them, even an hour, meaning that your kid is unlikely to be attending with neighborhood friends. Neither attracts native speakers to language classes outside Spanish. But if your expectations are modest and in line with reality, you may be satisfied at DCI or Latin Cooper.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Neither DCI nor Latin Cooper has the recourses to be all that great. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

What do you mean by "recourses"? I've never heard this word used in a similar context.

If you say six of one, it's clear you don't have kids in one or both places. They are not at all similar, even if they are the decent middle school options available to many families living in the city. The difference in family engagement strategies, approaches to tech, etc. are just different. And better or worse depending on what you want.

I figured it was a typo and PP meant to write resources.

Anonymous wrote:Neither DCI nor Latin Cooper has the recourses to be all that great. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

What do you mean by "recourses"? I've never heard this word used in a similar context.

If you say six of one, it's clear you don't have kids in one or both places. They are not at all similar, even if they are the decent middle school options available to many families living in the city. The difference in family engagement strategies, approaches to tech, etc. are just different. And better or worse depending on what you want.

Yes, but DCI is only so great. Teachers aren't paid or trained well, many leave each year. There isn't enough challenge in the middle school, IB exams aren't taken very seriously and kids aren't encouraged to double up on APs. ECs are mediocre.

My DCI middle schooler has been in advanced math (+grade level) and knows a child allowed to attend +2 level. If kids are advanced, they can get more challenging courses. Kids who do well in their language track can start a second language in 7th too.

Neither DCI nor Latin Cooper has the recourses to be all that great. Six of one, half dozen of the other.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Not sure DCI has a "more high performing cohort." I Didn't think DCI college acceptances were that great and their IB scores are mediocre.

I’ve been following DCI.

Forget about Cooper. Let’s look at 2nd St. Yes, DCI has almost twice as many kids at/above grade level then 2nd St. in math and a little under that in ELA. That is a huge difference. I’m basing this on PARCC scores of 4 and above.

Latin high school - 382 kids
ELA 70% = 267 kids
Math 20% = 76 kids

Latin middle school - 384 kids
ELA 68% - 261 kids
math 53% - 203 kids

DCI 6-12th, no breakdown like latin with middle/high - 1600 kids
ELA 50% = 800 kids
Math 32% = 512 kids

TOTAL
Latin ELA - 538 kids, math 279 kids
DCI ELA - 800 kids, math 512 kids

Not only does DCI in raw numbers have a more high performing cohort of kids then Latin, but the kids at DCI are learning advance languages where Latin is basic 101. In addition, some of these kids are getting significantly less ELA instruction due to languages and still 1/2 of them are doing fine in ELA.

If you want to compare college acceptances then you need to look at both schools so I can’t comment on that. But DCI is getting kids into Ivy’s and the number for total scholarships in terms of money awarded to the class the other year was really high.

Lastly, what do you mean by mediocre and in what context? For a school that is not private and does not self select, their IB scores are impressive. They are in the middle and close to WIS which is 55k a year in this town.

Does anyone know why there is such a huge decrease in math proficiency at Latin from the middle school to the high school? 53% down to 20%?

I’m guessing 1 of 2 scenarios. Either lots of high performing kids don’t continue on to high school or math instruction is weak at the school as you go up the grades.

I think it's because the PARCC only tests Algebra I, Algebra II, and Geometry. The best math students get beyond those courses and are no longer part of the PARCC data set.

FWIW it is the goal of Latin (at least at 2nd st) to get every high school student at least through Calculus. In order to make this happen there are a lot of summer school options (including various advanced tracks and additional help). The school is also an approved work site for the city summer youth employment program so that kids who choose to do summer school can get paid for a combination of school work and volunteer work. The summer school program at Latin is really well run and a lot of students take advantage of it, but it gives kids several paths to be finished with some/most/all of the PARCC math subjects before entering high school.

Ok but Calculus should be the floor not the ceiling. What are the advance math options at Latin beyond that?

Stats and Linear Algebra

https://latinpcs.org/wp-content/uploads/2021/05/Washington-Latin-Course-Guide-2021-22-v6.pdf

Stats and Linear Algebra, sounds fantastic, like Bronx Science or TJ! But the inconvenient truth is that most of the highest-performing Latin students still leave for Walls, J-R, privates, the burbs etc., to join a much larger cohort of high-performing high school students. Latin's a fine school, but the high-performing cohort there still isn't big, just a dozen kids per cohort bound for highly competitive colleges (those admitting in the single digits and teens). At Walls, four or five times that many are in each cohort. DCI is still somewhat untested, with so few graduating classes to date. Neither school tracks much in middle school, meaning that preparation for subjects like stats and Linear Algebra really isn't there. Come on, hardly anybody takes math past AP Calc (let alone BC calc) in either program.

Anonymous wrote:We are in French and understand this years 5th grade got in but, not sure what next year holds. Our child has a great cohort of friends and so moving would be socially hard (we know two kids who are going to Cooper). I like PPs suggestions of involving our child in the discussion and appreciate the clarification about language instruction at DCI. It won’t be an easy decision with pros and cons for both.

If you are in Stokes French, then you are basically guaranteed a spot at DCI. Stokes French has 20 guaranteed spots at DCI. And DCI has an additional 30 French spots for 6th grade, which equals a total of 50 spots. Stokes families get first dibs on those extra 30 spots. If you do not get one of the 20 guaranteed spots at midnight on match day, DCI will usually clear the Stokes waitlist by noon the next day. Stay at Stokes, and go to DCI.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I d not see much advantage at all to Cooper over DCI.

DCI has

- More high performing cohort
- More courses and curriculum offerings
- More tracking options with languages and courses offered in languages and math
- Way better facilities, night and day
- Way more sports, clubs, extracurriculars
- More diverse

What exactly does Copper offer that is better than DCI exactly? Maybe a little less tech, but it’s not like they are tech free.

We left a DCI feeder for 2nd street, and the draw for us were the smaller class sizes. All of my kid's classes at 2nd St. have had 18 or 19 kids in them. Everything I have heard from friends at DCI are that the classes have 24-28 kids in them. There are plenty of kids for whom that might not really matter, but it makes a big difference for my kid. We are sad to miss out on some of the things DCI has to offer, but it has absolutely been the right choice for us to move to Latin.

This does not track with the class sizes described by my DCI middle schooler, perhaps high school classes run larger

My DCI high schooler says their smallest class has been six students (an elective in their language) to about 22 max. Except PE which can run up to 25. Lots of smaller classes. Upper teens at most.