Anonymous
Post 07/27/2024 15:18     Subject: Re:Pinecrest and IAS entry
Anonymous wrote:Given that so many are commenting who are not in the NVSL, NVSL does not use starting blocks. That USA swimming water depth rule is premised on using starting blocks which are approximately 2 feet off the ground. I’m not thrilled about the 2.5 foot pinecrest start but I don’t think it’s the massive liability it’s being portrayed as. It’s really more of a risk during pinecrest regular season meets where they have much weaker swimmers diving in.


PMSL doesn’t use starting block either. We had 3.5 foot depth at one end… in water starts. Because we are not idiots.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2024 15:17     Subject: Re:Pinecrest and IAS entry
The meet was extremely well organized. The tents on the dry grass were much nicer than on concrete- if grass had been muddy this probably would have been an issue. Volunteers did a great job of moving spectators in and out of the single event viewing area. The live stream was very well done. The pool itself leaves a lot to be desired, I noticed that most kids appeared to be adding time.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2024 15:07     Subject: Pinecrest and IAS entry
Loved the livestream! It was the best there has ever been!
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2024 14:42     Subject: Pinecrest and IAS entry
Meet is over, no catastrophes. You can all unclench now.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2024 13:35     Subject: Pinecrest and IAS entry
We just got home and it was great. I thought the pool was excellent. The layout was very easy to get around and everyone hosting was super nice. Was very organized and thought out. It was a fun meet! Hats off to Pinecrest!
**only minor problem that I saw (has nothing to do with the pool) was that one of the starters malfunctioned and they needed an extra backup (prob will get multiple backups next year I would guess)
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2024 10:27     Subject: Pinecrest and IAS entry
We made it through IM with no cuts abrasions or death.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2024 09:52     Subject: Re:Pinecrest and IAS entry
Given that so many are commenting who are not in the NVSL, NVSL does not use starting blocks. That USA swimming water depth rule is premised on using starting blocks which are approximately 2 feet off the ground. I’m not thrilled about the 2.5 foot pinecrest start but I don’t think it’s the massive liability it’s being portrayed as. It’s really more of a risk during pinecrest regular season meets where they have much weaker swimmers diving in.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2024 08:23     Subject: Pinecrest and IAS entry
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Did you read the rule?

Note: Local, state and municipal statutes, ordinances, rules and regulations, may
have depth limitations in conflict with this section. The LSC and all Member Clubs should check for this at all times.

And this isn’t USA Swimming.


They mean you have to comply with more restrictive local regs.

And USA swimming is better placed to promulgate a minimum standard because they have literally every incident report from a USAS meet for years. Those advocating the nvsl position are saying “nothing bad has happened to us.”

Also it is not true that nothing has happened. Upthread someone said they had two past incidents treated with first aid only AT THAT POOL.



OMG THEY HAD TWO INCIDENTS TREATED WITH (rereads…..)….. ICE!!?!?!!! The horror.


You are an idiot. Ice means bruise or abrasion, which strongly implies the swimmer hit the bottom.

Your margin of safety is gone.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2024 05:43     Subject: Pinecrest and IAS entry
NP. I think one of the folks in NVSL who was involved in this decision musy be sock puppeting in this thread. I cannot imagine why you would be so vehemently defending something so blatantly unsafe.

Hope you get lucky today, NVSL, and no child gets hurt by your stupid decision.
Anonymous
Post 07/27/2024 01:30     Subject: Pinecrest and IAS entry
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:Did you read the rule?

Note: Local, state and municipal statutes, ordinances, rules and regulations, may
have depth limitations in conflict with this section. The LSC and all Member Clubs should check for this at all times.

And this isn’t USA Swimming.


They mean you have to comply with more restrictive local regs.

And USA swimming is better placed to promulgate a minimum standard because they have literally every incident report from a USAS meet for years. Those advocating the nvsl position are saying “nothing bad has happened to us.”

Also it is not true that nothing has happened. Upthread someone said they had two past incidents treated with first aid only AT THAT POOL.



OMG THEY HAD TWO INCIDENTS TREATED WITH (rereads…..)….. ICE!!?!?!!! The horror.
Anonymous
Post 07/26/2024 23:21     Subject: Pinecrest and IAS entry
Anonymous wrote:I still cannot believe this is real. This is so unsafe. Catastrophic SCI is a lifelong life altering injury.

I’m a USA swimming certified official and anything less than 4’ must be an in water start. (Rule 103.2)

Swimmers who have not yet learned a shallow racing dive must practice in 6’ of water. That practice begins with deck starts. These are summer swimmers. Not all are as proficient as year round swimmers with years of experience.

If I had a child in this meet I would absolutely pull them.

I’m certified as a starter in my summer league and also USAS and if I were an NVSL official I would refuse to work this meet. I would seriously question if my umbrella liability policy would cover me if an injury occurred because I consider forward deck starts into 2.5” grossly negligent.


+ a million

There is no going back from an SCI. No swim meet is worth it.

NVSL is going to learn the hard way.
Anonymous
Post 07/26/2024 22:57     Subject: Pinecrest and IAS entry
Anonymous wrote:Did you read the rule?

Note: Local, state and municipal statutes, ordinances, rules and regulations, may
have depth limitations in conflict with this section. The LSC and all Member Clubs should check for this at all times.

And this isn’t USA Swimming.


They mean you have to comply with more restrictive local regs.

And USA swimming is better placed to promulgate a minimum standard because they have literally every incident report from a USAS meet for years. Those advocating the nvsl position are saying “nothing bad has happened to us.”

Also it is not true that nothing has happened. Upthread someone said they had two past incidents treated with first aid only AT THAT POOL.

Anonymous
Post 07/26/2024 22:46     Subject: Pinecrest and IAS entry

I'm not sure why there is all this hair-splitting and hand-wringing about rules and which body is authoritative when the conditions are clearly and grossly unsafe and dangerous.

Nobody thinks that diving in 2 and a half feet of water is ideal or safe.
Anonymous
Post 07/26/2024 22:34     Subject: Pinecrest and IAS entry
Did you read the rule?

Note: Local, state and municipal statutes, ordinances, rules and regulations, may
have depth limitations in conflict with this section. The LSC and all Member Clubs should check for this at all times.

And this isn’t USA Swimming.
Anonymous
Post 07/26/2024 22:31     Subject: Pinecrest and IAS entry
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:I still cannot believe this is real. This is so unsafe. Catastrophic SCI is a lifelong life altering injury.

I’m a USA swimming certified official and anything less than 4’ must be an in water start. (Rule 103.2)

Swimmers who have not yet learned a shallow racing dive must practice in 6’ of water. That practice begins with deck starts. These are summer swimmers. Not all are as proficient as year round swimmers with years of experience.

If I had a child in this meet I would absolutely pull them.

I’m certified as a starter in my summer league and also USAS and if I were an NVSL official I would refuse to work this meet. I would seriously question if my umbrella liability policy would cover me if an injury occurred because I consider forward deck starts into 2.5” grossly negligent.


Are they diving off of blocks?


Did you read the rule?

i think you didn’t read the rule, so I will help your lazy a**.

In pools with water depth less than 4’ at the starting end, the swimmer must start in the water.

But it’s totally cool for this meet only because some random Fairfax County resident knows more than an entire national sport federation.




What rule?
Here’s the NVSL handbook. Pg 76 literally says their pool facilities rule will not follow USA swim facilities standards.
https://www.mynvsl.com/advertisers.pdf