Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are going to be expensive townhomes by any standard, and brand new. I think you will find young couples and young families looking to be in a nice quiet neighborhood with good schools. Bros aren’t interested in Donaldson Run and it’s a pretty lame location for a party house.

Here’s how it goes down, the brand new townhouse is bought by a young couple with a baby. Within four years, they’ve outgrown it and realize that living with three stories, or four stories and no yard will not work with their preschooler and the second baby.

They will then decide it is a great investment and decide to rent it out for the next 20 years, which point it will become a tenant house and will very very soon become a group house, it only takes one instance to become a direct group house, and then the individual members move in and out, and it never dies like a cancer.

Most people buying a townhouse in that price point can't afford to hold the townhouse as a rental after just 4 years and then also buy a SFH. You're going to give yourself an ulcer with these crazy scenarios.

If it were me, I would be concerned about the plexes being rentals with high turnover. That I get. But consider yourself lucky if your neighborhood gets a few luxury townhomes.

We lived in a townhouse rental, this is exactly how it goes down. What do you mean can’t afford?! The rent covers a huge part of the cost.

Anonymous wrote:what if they are nicer than the SFHs?

This too for sure! Certain housing stock and condition is now being offered over $1M , with serious repairs issues beyond just cosmetic -split level, split foyer, layouts etc.

Any repairs, or improvements, are extremely expensive close-in. Well beyond the prices I see quoted on HGTV sometimes several times the cost.

Arlington has some lovely housing stock too, which while lovely, can develop extremely costly maintenance issues as the decades pass.

I have seen a very nice new build duplex. It is nothing to be up in arms about for me.

In fact many homeowners now (with rate and home price locked in, much less the generation that bought decades ago and owns outright) could not afford to buy here now, as a younger person with comparable life stage/income level.

I am glad for more possibility for builders to build housing families want. And this increases the value of current owners' property if or when they place it on the market too. Change has to be constant because built structures such as here simply do not last forever.

what if they are nicer than the SFHs?

Anonymous wrote:Certainly everyone has different opinions. And change can be difficult. Also it seems more related to interest rates, in my neighborhood, we are seeing SFHs rented out, sometimes by heirs (often to families, not group homes)

I personally see so many positives to allowing builders more flexibility to build what buyers want to buy.

There is significantly more demand for the $1-1.5M new build than the $2-3M+ new build with 7 bedrooms.

Yup. Either there will be demand and builders will continue to build them. Or not.

There are issues with infill but they aren’t limited to just MM projects.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I love how people are losing their minds over one three-unit townhouse complex on their street. I'm in the Penrose neighborhood (South Arlington) and we are the epitome of Missing Middle. On my street we have old duplexes, old apartment buildings of various sizes, subsidized apartments, a large apartment complex, and older single family houses. I'm living in an eight-plex and somehow all of us in the neighborhood are getting along just fine. You take this same concept north of the Langston Blvd are people are going nuts about it.

Some people like just to complain.

They’ll get over it at some point.

I also live in Penrose. One thing you will note is all these developments have adequate parking. The duplexes all have 4 off street parking spaces. And the apartment buildings all have parking lots.

You will also note that some streets in Penrose are tiny. They are not wide enough for two cars to pass when a car is parked on either side. So, if Penrose got a bunch of 6-plexes with only 3 parking spaces on some streets, it might be a real issue.

I have no issues with mixed housing neighborhoods. We picked this one. But I still think MM is terrible policy, because while it is allowed everywhere, it doesn't work everywhere. My main complaint is that it does not require enough off-street parking.

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Anonymous wrote:This lot is just crying out for a 6-plex. Totally fits the lot and neighborhood and is soooo convenient to transit. What a great choice Arlington County Board!!! Thanks so much for making it possible!!

https://redf.in/Cqyjaf

It's 2 blocks from the ART bus, which can then take someone 1 mile to Ballston metro. There are other bus lines on Glebe, but I think ART to Metro is the most likely scenario.

No one buying a million dollar townhouse is wasting so many hours taking the ART to Metro.

PP linked to a lot that's been approved for a 6 plex. That building is going to be a rental full of 1-2 bedroom units.

Wait, WHAT?

Yeah it says it's approved for a 6 unit multifamily building on Arlington's tracker. Anything above 3 units is likely to be a rental building. Nobody is setting up a condo for 4-6 units.

They did on Langston.

A six unit condo on Langston Boulevard with walkability is completely different than a sixPlex in the middle of a tree lined neighborhood with multi million dollar homes. Makes no sense. Unless you’re a developer $$$

Debatable. But developers are setting up condos for 4-6 units.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I don’t see the problem. People who live in multi-plexes might want to live on tree-lines streets too. And at MM prices, the residents will not be poor. I fail to see what all the hand-wringing is about.

Uh, if you see the plans, all these MM projects will KILL ALL THE TREES.

They will kill as many trees as the tear downs - the same footprint is allowed.

I think footprint should be reduced for both SFH and MM to minimize tree loss.

Anonymous wrote:I love how people are losing their minds over one three-unit townhouse complex on their street. I'm in the Penrose neighborhood (South Arlington) and we are the epitome of Missing Middle. On my street we have old duplexes, old apartment buildings of various sizes, subsidized apartments, a large apartment complex, and older single family houses. I'm living in an eight-plex and somehow all of us in the neighborhood are getting along just fine. You take this same concept north of the Langston Blvd are people are going nuts about it.

Some people like just to complain.

They’ll get over it at some point.

Certainly everyone has different opinions. And change can be difficult. Also it seems more related to interest rates, in my neighborhood, we are seeing SFHs rented out, sometimes by heirs (often to families, not group homes)

I personally see so many positives to allowing builders more flexibility to build what buyers want to buy.

There is significantly more demand for the $1-1.5M new build than the $2-3M+ new build with 7 bedrooms.

I love how people are losing their minds over one three-unit townhouse complex on their street. I'm in the Penrose neighborhood (South Arlington) and we are the epitome of Missing Middle. On my street we have old duplexes, old apartment buildings of various sizes, subsidized apartments, a large apartment complex, and older single family houses. I'm living in an eight-plex and somehow all of us in the neighborhood are getting along just fine. You take this same concept north of the Langston Blvd are people are going nuts about it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:There are going to be expensive townhomes by any standard, and brand new. I think you will find young couples and young families looking to be in a nice quiet neighborhood with good schools. Bros aren’t interested in Donaldson Run and it’s a pretty lame location for a party house.

Here’s how it goes down, the brand new townhouse is bought by a young couple with a baby. Within four years, they’ve outgrown it and realize that living with three stories, or four stories and no yard will not work with their preschooler and the second baby.

They will then decide it is a great investment and decide to rent it out for the next 20 years, which point it will become a tenant house and will very very soon become a group house, it only takes one instance to become a direct group house, and then the individual members move in and out, and it never dies like a cancer.

Most people buying a townhouse in that price point can't afford to hold the townhouse as a rental after just 4 years and then also buy a SFH. You're going to give yourself an ulcer with these crazy scenarios.

If it were me, I would be concerned about the plexes being rentals with high turnover. That I get. But consider yourself lucky if your neighborhood gets a few luxury townhomes.

So it goes in your head…

Anonymous wrote:There are going to be expensive townhomes by any standard, and brand new. I think you will find young couples and young families looking to be in a nice quiet neighborhood with good schools. Bros aren’t interested in Donaldson Run and it’s a pretty lame location for a party house.

Here’s how it goes down, the brand new townhouse is bought by a young couple with a baby. Within four years, they’ve outgrown it and realize that living with three stories, or four stories and no yard will not work with their preschooler and the second baby.

They will then decide it is a great investment and decide to rent it out for the next 20 years, which point it will become a tenant house and will very very soon become a group house, it only takes one instance to become a direct group house, and then the individual members move in and out, and it never dies like a cancer.

There are going to be expensive townhomes by any standard, and brand new. I think you will find young couples and young families looking to be in a nice quiet neighborhood with good schools. Bros aren’t interested in Donaldson Run and it’s a pretty lame location for a party house.

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Anonymous wrote:

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Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This lot is just crying out for a 6-plex. Totally fits the lot and neighborhood and is soooo convenient to transit. What a great choice Arlington County Board!!! Thanks so much for making it possible!!

https://redf.in/Cqyjaf

It's 2 blocks from the ART bus, which can then take someone 1 mile to Ballston metro. There are other bus lines on Glebe, but I think ART to Metro is the most likely scenario.

And a grocery store? Coffee shop? You can pretend to justify it however you'd like, but every adult living in that building is going to have a car and drive.

Your initial comment was that this lot isn't convenient to transit. It's actually very convenient for someone commuting to the Ballston Metro. I was replying to what you wrote, not the secret gripes you had in your head.

Yeah, that secret need for food. I totally made up that people who live in apartments need to eat, as well as commute to work.

It's a stupid location for a 6 unit building. Density should be near transit hubs and amenities not in the middle of neighborhoods.

Well if nobody wants to live in these locations because they are "stupid," then you don't have to worry. Sounds like you have it all figured out!

It's not clear that these are selling. MM has cooled substantially. But at least some folks will be the unlucky neighbors who will have to live next to an apartment building crammed onto a lot sized for a SFH.

The “community workers” (teachers, police, nurses, etc) don’t want these crummy apartments or stacked townhouse — those have been options for decades. They want SFH just like almost everyone else.

This just crams in 20 something dinks or group houses into SFH — hope you like the wafting smell of pot and malt liquor in the morning.

People like you infuriate me because this is the kind of talk that makes the MM opponents look crazy. I think the plan that was passed was too extreme but I was embarrassed by comments like yours during all the public comment periods.

What exactly is “crazy” about my post? Teachers and nurses have families too; and they want to raise them with a regular home not be the “weird neighbors” living in the lone condo next to the park? Yes, young teachers live in apartments, condos, and townhomes, but they all move to Fairfax when they have families— hence why our calendar follows FCPS. We should do like Universities and purchase homes for teachers to “buy” , earn modest appreciation, and sell to future teachers. But not feasible I know.

We lived next to a group home in a townhouse; weekend parties are a standard, with drinking and usually some guests smoking out back. Granted I was being poetic in my “napalm in the morning” phrasing, but noise, debris, and limited parking is standard outcomes from group housing in suburban homes.

Because you're taking one incident and generalizing it. I've lived by multiple group homes (and I lived in a group home when I first came to Arlington out of college). Only one set of tenants in one home was ever an issue. So your experience isn't universal and you sound like a crazy person when you frame it that way.

DP. Uh, it IS a universal experience. A good portion of us (who now own homes here) lived in group homes first. I don’t know if you were a nerd or what, but it is very common that young professionals party in these houses. Ever hear how Arlington was named one of the top ten places for Bros? My now husband’s house was so much fun. Parties and BBQs often. Five cars and a motorcycle were parked there. Not to mention when girlfriends would be over. Same at my house - three cars + three boyfriend’s cars. I’m sorry your group house was so lame.

I'm lost- are you against all group houses, or just the ones in your neighborhood? Any SFH can be a group house, the expensive MM housing is probably less likely to be a group house. Where are you going with this?

Yeah the group houses are usually the old decrepit ones before they are torn down and replaced, not after.

Yes, people turn old houses into group houses before they ultimately decide what to do with the property. In a few cases, I have seen new SFHs as group houses, but they are def not party houses. I don't know how they vet the tenants but maybe they just take a heck of a security deposit.