Anonymous
06/13/2024 15:32
Subject: How many actual “late term” terminations actually happen? Actual reasons?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.
This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.
OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.
How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?
No has answered that yet.
DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.
The other simple answer, which almost always gets lost in the debate is demanding this answer means you don't trust women to make the best decisions for themselves and their families. It's a fundamental mistrust of women, their motives, and their decision making abilities. It's a really deep rooted bias that's so accepted that we rarely talk about it.
+1
And OP I’ll play along and try to assume you are asking in good faith. There are women out there who have shared their stories about why they have had a later abortion; find them. Read them.
Anonymous
06/13/2024 15:31
Subject: Re:How many actual “late term” terminations actually happen? Actual reasons?
Ok, since OP keeps pushing for "data", when people are not collecting such data, we can try to extrapolate from what data is available.
https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/issue-brief/abortions-later-in-pregnancy-in-a-post-dobbs-era/
But, comparing abortion rates from 1992 to 2024:
https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/ab-unitedstates.html
In 1992, the Guttmacher Institute (GI) and Abortion Worldwide Report (AWR) reported 1.529M abortions.
In 2023, GI estimated 950,640 abortions (62% of 1992) and AWR estimated 916,300 abortions (59% of 1992).
Assuming that the number of abortions performed in 2023 was approximately 60% of the number performed in 2023, then it seems that there were between 190-360 abortions TOTAL after 26 weeks of gestation (e.g. third trimester).
And the majority of those are going to be for health of mother or baby or major birth defects or non-life-sustaining birth issues.
So, we are probably looking at well less than 100 such abortions (out of millions of pregnancies) per year.
https://www.kff.org/womens-health-policy/issue-brief/abortions-later-in-pregnancy-in-a-post-dobbs-era/
Abortions occurring at or after 21 weeks gestation are rare. According to the CDC’s Abortion Surveillance Data for 2021, prior to the Dobbs decision, the vast number of abortions (96%) occurred at or before 15 weeks gestation, while 3% occurred from 16 to 20 weeks gestation, and just 1% of abortions were performed at or after 21 weeks (Figure 3). This amounts to approximately 4,100 abortions per year occurring at or after 21 weeks. However, this estimate only includes the 41 reporting areas that report abortions to the CDC by gestational age and excludes major states such as California and New York
The CDC does not elaborate on the breakdown by gestational age for abortions occurring past 21 weeks, but it is likely that the vast majority occur soon after 21 weeks rather than much later in the pregnancy. While very limited contemporary data exists on this issue, a study from 1992 estimated 0.02% of all abortions occurred after 26 weeks gestation (320 to 600 cases per year).
But, comparing abortion rates from 1992 to 2024:
https://www.johnstonsarchive.net/policy/abortion/ab-unitedstates.html
In 1992, the Guttmacher Institute (GI) and Abortion Worldwide Report (AWR) reported 1.529M abortions.
In 2023, GI estimated 950,640 abortions (62% of 1992) and AWR estimated 916,300 abortions (59% of 1992).
Assuming that the number of abortions performed in 2023 was approximately 60% of the number performed in 2023, then it seems that there were between 190-360 abortions TOTAL after 26 weeks of gestation (e.g. third trimester).
And the majority of those are going to be for health of mother or baby or major birth defects or non-life-sustaining birth issues.
So, we are probably looking at well less than 100 such abortions (out of millions of pregnancies) per year.
Anonymous
06/13/2024 15:18
Subject: How many actual “late term” terminations actually happen? Actual reasons?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.
This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.
OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.
How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?
No has answered that yet.
DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.
OP again. Thx.
Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.
My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.
If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.
Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).
Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.
People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.
And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.
Theres your rational answer and facts.
+1. Very well said.
Anonymous
06/13/2024 15:17
Subject: How many actual “late term” terminations actually happen? Actual reasons?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.
This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.
OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.
How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?
No has answered that yet.
DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.
OP again. Thx.
Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.
My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.
If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.
Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).
I would argue that there are no third trimester abortions that are elective. Why would anyone put themselves through the emotional, physical and financial trauma?
And as one poster said, there are only two doctors in the US doing this anyhow. How many could there possibly be?
Everyone should watch the documentary, "After Tiller" about these doctors and their clinics. It's incredibly heartbreaking and really sheds light on the people who are in the position to seek out these later term abortions. It's grim. No one is like, "Idk I thought the whole pregnancy thing was cool but now I'm at 30 weeks and don't want a kid, I'm going to travel across the country and pay 30k to get rid of it." And the doctors are deeply ethical people, they wouldn't agree to these procedures for that reason.
Anonymous
06/13/2024 14:46
Subject: How many actual “late term” terminations actually happen? Actual reasons?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.
This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.
OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.
How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?
No has answered that yet.
DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.
OP again. Thx.
Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.
My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.
If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.
Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).
Heres my thing OP. Your obsession with elective is clouding the fact there are REAL reasons to have a 3rd trimester abortion. And by focusing on elective, which OB/GYNs dont do in 3rd trimester, you take from women who are experiencing real pain and loss. Its grotesque. And you WANT to find elective people so that you can say well if there are 4 people having elective abortions then no one should get it because deep down you dont actually agree with abortion.
People dont have 25-35k and weeks off. Every fed employee who has fed insurance wouldnt be able to get it covered and is unable to get any abortion covered.
And people who want an elective abortion will find a back alley provider or conduct infanticide. You arent thinking rationally. Rationally, someone who wants to abort a fetus- ELECTIVELY- will find a way to do it or will kill an unwanted child because no one grows a fetus in their belly and electively says No, put me under, kill a healthy child, heres 30k plus 1-2 weeks to recover.
Theres your rational answer and facts.
Anonymous
06/13/2024 14:41
Subject: How many actual “late term” terminations actually happen? Actual reasons?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op
Just do some basic math.
There were approximately 625,000 abortions for the last year CDC had data.
1% of those happen in the third trimester.
So… 6,250 abortions.
How hard is it to understand that of the approximately 5-6 MILLION pregnancies a year approximately a few thousand will have an outcome that requires abortion in the third trimester?
With so few of those procedures happening, it’s seems women aren’t seeking it out.
That 1% are 21 weeks or later, not third trimester which doesn’t begin until 27 weeks. According to testimony today under oath by Jocelyn Frye, the President of the National Partnership for Women & Families. U
Ok. So it’s even fewer than 6,250.
We could been talking about as few as hundreds, not even thousands.
Is it so hard to believe that perhaps every one of those procedures are needed due to the health/life of the mother and or fetus?
The idea that women are choosing abortion at 27 weeks and later is a lie and an insult to women.
Anonymous
06/13/2024 14:40
Subject: How many actual “late term” terminations actually happen? Actual reasons?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:NP. This is an issue for me too, OP. I’m very pro-choice in first semester and I think women should be allowed to terminate at the anatomy scan (which is not always at 20 weeks, could be 1-2 weeks later to be fair). After that point, I think abortions should be banned unless there’s a very compelling medical reason for the baby or the mother.
I also hear things like “that almost never happens! Right wing talking point!” and if that’s true, I don’t see why anyone would have a problem with a law against it. It’s either happening or it’s not. And it shouldn’t, IMO.
I read something that said the vast majority of Americans have this middle of the road, sensible view on abortion. So I don’t know why we need to choose between one extreme or the other. The crazies on both sides drive me nuts.
You cant just TERMINATE at an anatomy scan.
When I hear people like you talk about this, I realize you have no FU45IN clue what the hell you are talking about and therefore need to get educated before having an opinion.
AMEN.
Anonymous
06/13/2024 14:40
Subject: How many actual “late term” terminations actually happen? Actual reasons?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.
This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.
OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.
How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?
No has answered that yet.
DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.
The other simple answer, which almost always gets lost in the debate is demanding this answer means you don't trust women to make the best decisions for themselves and their families. It's a fundamental mistrust of women, their motives, and their decision making abilities. It's a really deep rooted bias that's so accepted that we rarely talk about it.
Anonymous
06/13/2024 14:39
Subject: How many actual “late term” terminations actually happen? Actual reasons?
Anonymous wrote:NP. This is an issue for me too, OP. I’m very pro-choice in first semester and I think women should be allowed to terminate at the anatomy scan (which is not always at 20 weeks, could be 1-2 weeks later to be fair). After that point, I think abortions should be banned unless there’s a very compelling medical reason for the baby or the mother.
I also hear things like “that almost never happens! Right wing talking point!” and if that’s true, I don’t see why anyone would have a problem with a law against it. It’s either happening or it’s not. And it shouldn’t, IMO.
I read something that said the vast majority of Americans have this middle of the road, sensible view on abortion. So I don’t know why we need to choose between one extreme or the other. The crazies on both sides drive me nuts.
You cant just TERMINATE at an anatomy scan.
When I hear people like you talk about this, I realize you have no FU45IN clue what the hell you are talking about and therefore need to get educated before having an opinion.
Anonymous
06/13/2024 14:39
Subject: How many actual “late term” terminations actually happen? Actual reasons?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Op
Just do some basic math.
There were approximately 625,000 abortions for the last year CDC had data.
1% of those happen in the third trimester.
So… 6,250 abortions.
How hard is it to understand that of the approximately 5-6 MILLION pregnancies a year approximately a few thousand will have an outcome that requires abortion in the third trimester?
With so few of those procedures happening, it’s seems women aren’t seeking it out.
That 1% are 21 weeks or later, not third trimester which doesn’t begin until 27 weeks. According to testimony today under oath by Jocelyn Frye, the President of the National Partnership for Women & Families. U
Excellent. Don't ask the question if you don't want the answer senator Kennedy. Shut up Kennedy and listen.
Anonymous
06/13/2024 14:37
Subject: How many actual “late term” terminations actually happen? Actual reasons?
Anonymous wrote:NP. This is an issue for me too, OP. I’m very pro-choice in first semester and I think women should be allowed to terminate at the anatomy scan (which is not always at 20 weeks, could be 1-2 weeks later to be fair). After that point, I think abortions should be banned unless there’s a very compelling medical reason for the baby or the mother.
I also hear things like “that almost never happens! Right wing talking point!” and if that’s true, I don’t see why anyone would have a problem with a law against it. It’s either happening or it’s not. And it shouldn’t, IMO.
I read something that said the vast majority of Americans have this middle of the road, sensible view on abortion. So I don’t know why we need to choose between one extreme or the other. The crazies on both sides drive me nuts.
Congratulations. You've basically stated the holding of Roe v. Wade (other than 20 weeks is not the point of viability).
Anonymous
06/13/2024 14:05
Subject: How many actual “late term” terminations actually happen? Actual reasons?
Anonymous wrote:Op
Just do some basic math.
There were approximately 625,000 abortions for the last year CDC had data.
1% of those happen in the third trimester.
So… 6,250 abortions.
How hard is it to understand that of the approximately 5-6 MILLION pregnancies a year approximately a few thousand will have an outcome that requires abortion in the third trimester?
With so few of those procedures happening, it’s seems women aren’t seeking it out.
That 1% are 21 weeks or later, not third trimester which doesn’t begin until 27 weeks. According to testimony today under oath by Jocelyn Frye, the President of the National Partnership for Women & Families. U
Anonymous
06/13/2024 13:42
Subject: How many actual “late term” terminations actually happen? Actual reasons?
Op
Just do some basic math.
There were approximately 625,000 abortions for the last year CDC had data.
1% of those happen in the third trimester.
So… 6,250 abortions.
How hard is it to understand that of the approximately 5-6 MILLION pregnancies a year approximately a few thousand will have an outcome that requires abortion in the third trimester?
With so few of those procedures happening, it’s seems women aren’t seeking it out.
Just do some basic math.
There were approximately 625,000 abortions for the last year CDC had data.
1% of those happen in the third trimester.
So… 6,250 abortions.
How hard is it to understand that of the approximately 5-6 MILLION pregnancies a year approximately a few thousand will have an outcome that requires abortion in the third trimester?
With so few of those procedures happening, it’s seems women aren’t seeking it out.
Anonymous
06/13/2024 13:39
Subject: How many actual “late term” terminations actually happen? Actual reasons?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.
This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.
OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.
How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?
No has answered that yet.
DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.
OP again. Thx.
Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.
My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.
If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.
Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).
You are such a troll!!
The answer to your question is:
Vanishingly small. My research indicates about 148 over a twelve year period, most for fetal abnormalities or health of the mother. The remainder unreported, but believed the same.
No one knows how many women committed suicide because they couldn’t see any other way out.
So consider that next time you search for facts about what can happen in the “third term” of a pregnancy.
Anonymous
06/13/2024 13:34
Subject: How many actual “late term” terminations actually happen? Actual reasons?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:If half of abortions occurring in the second trimester, after 20 weeks, are the result of not having the funds to get an abortion, then you definitely aren’t paying for a 20,000 plus procedure in the third trimester.
This is the real issue. People are getting abortions late for reasons OTHER than birth defects or health of mother.
OP again. This is the claim I’d like to fact-check.
How many third-trimester terminations are for reasons OTHER THAN birth defects or physical health of the mother?
No has answered that yet.
DP I think the simple answer to your question is that nobody knows because nobody is keeping track of this data.
OP again. Thx.
Sadly, people littered this thread with political statements even after I said not to. And while some information has been shared (thx again), we still do not have facts, which makes debating this kinda pointless.
My guess is you are probably right: no one is keeping track of this data.
If so, there really is no reliable answer to my question: how many third-trimester terminations are purely elective.
Unless someone can post some actual data in answer to my question, there’s no longer much point to anyone posting (again: stop posting political responses! This is about ascertaining basic facts. That’s all).
I would argue that there are no third trimester abortions that are elective. Why would anyone put themselves through the emotional, physical and financial trauma?
And as one poster said, there are only two doctors in the US doing this anyhow. How many could there possibly be?