Anonymous
06/05/2024 20:19
Subject: STEM flagships
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You know how UVA is Virginia's flagship university where Virginia's top students attend, and VT is the de facto STEM flagship with strong STEM programs where Virginia's top STEM talent attends? Well, can you help me identify some other states' comparable STEM flagship? For instance...
U Michigan/Michigan State U
UT Austin/Texas A&M
UNC Chapel Hill/NC State
U Georgia/Georgia Tech
Ohio State/?
Penn State/?
Rutgers/?
Others?
False premise. As someone else indicated, top Virginia STEM talent does not go to Virginia Tech. Some of it does, but certainly not most. A higher number of TJ grads go to UVA and W&M than to VT, and TJ is the top STEM high school in the state.
Please post your citations.
DP
NP. This is TJ from last year (beginning on page 18). VT may get more in 2024 since they got rid of the silly ED.
https://issuu.com/tjtoday/docs/2023seniorissue
WM - 24
VT - 23
And no doubt more this year, as you said. Not really making the PP’s claim that more TJ grads go to WM than VT.
Last 5 years looks like this for TJ graduates: 207 to UVA, 132 to W&M, 82 to VT. Using a single year is subject to greater variability.
But also consider it this way -- VT has 1.8X as many undergraduates as UVA and 4.6X as many as W&M. Proportionally more should be going to VT, but that hasn't happened.
Anonymous
06/05/2024 20:19
Subject: STEM flagships
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You know how UVA is Virginia's flagship university where Virginia's top students attend, and VT is the de facto STEM flagship with strong STEM programs where Virginia's top STEM talent attends? Well, can you help me identify some other states' comparable STEM flagship? For instance...
U Michigan/Michigan State U
UT Austin/Texas A&M
UNC Chapel Hill/NC State
U Georgia/Georgia Tech
Ohio State/?
Penn State/?
Rutgers/?
Others?
False premise. As someone else indicated, top Virginia STEM talent does not go to Virginia Tech. Some of it does, but certainly not most. A higher number of TJ grads go to UVA and W&M than to VT, and TJ is the top STEM high school in the state.
Please post your citations.
DP
NP. This is TJ from last year (beginning on page 18). VT may get more in 2024 since they got rid of the silly ED.
https://issuu.com/tjtoday/docs/2023seniorissue
WM - 24
VT - 23
And no doubt more this year, as you said. Not really making the PP’s claim that more TJ grads go to WM than VT.
If you are a parent of the school you can see Naviance or Scoir (not PP but we have it for our non-TJ STEM public in a different area if VA): the top GPA and SAT kids, as well as the ones who took all the hard stem courses (APChem, Phys E&M, BC calc in 11th) almost all go to UVA over VT for Engineering and other STEM, IF they do not leave the state for GT or JHU or ivies. Some years a similar number go to VT and UVA, but that number says nothing. The total matriculating does not show what naviance shows, and what knowing the actual kids reveals: the smartest and most talented, from the highest math and science tracks, pick UVA in a head to head. Some pick WM over VT, if they want the ivy-size (particularly premed stems aiming for Bio or Chem majors). VT is the back up instate plan or is not even applied to, by the very top 10++%.
Another FCPS HS..if TJs Naviance info is anything like our school, it's basically worthless. 5 years of history with no ability to filter. Our school just shows applications and acceptances. Not how many enrolled.
Exactly. The PP is concocting a narrative that has no basis in reality.
DP
Anonymous
06/05/2024 20:18
Subject: STEM flagships
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You know how UVA is Virginia's flagship university where Virginia's top students attend, and VT is the de facto STEM flagship with strong STEM programs where Virginia's top STEM talent attends? Well, can you help me identify some other states' comparable STEM flagship? For instance...
U Michigan/Michigan State U
UT Austin/Texas A&M
UNC Chapel Hill/NC State
U Georgia/Georgia Tech
Ohio State/?
Penn State/?
Rutgers/?
Others?
False premise. As someone else indicated, top Virginia STEM talent does not go to Virginia Tech. Some of it does, but certainly not most. A higher number of TJ grads go to UVA and W&M than to VT, and TJ is the top STEM high school in the state.
Please post your citations.
DP
NP. This is TJ from last year (beginning on page 18). VT may get more in 2024 since they got rid of the silly ED.
https://issuu.com/tjtoday/docs/2023seniorissue
WM - 24
VT - 23
And no doubt more this year, as you said. Not really making the PP’s claim that more TJ grads go to WM than VT.
If you are a parent of the school you can see Naviance or Scoir (not PP but we have it for our non-TJ STEM public in a different area if VA): the top GPA and SAT kids, as well as the ones who took all the hard stem courses (APChem, Phys E&M, BC calc in 11th) almost all go to UVA over VT for Engineering and other STEM, IF they do not leave the state for GT or JHU or ivies. Some years a similar number go to VT and UVA, but that number says nothing. The total matriculating does not show what naviance shows, and what knowing the actual kids reveals: the smartest and most talented, from the highest math and science tracks, pick UVA in a head to head. Some pick WM over VT, if they want the ivy-size (particularly premed stems aiming for Bio or Chem majors). VT is the back up instate plan or is not even applied to, by the very top 10++%.
DP. The amount of times you have repeated this BS here is astounding. You have no proof of this to cite; repeating the same silly claim over and over means nothing. My nephew is at TJ and says this is simply not true at all. Stop spreading misinformation.
Anonymous
06/05/2024 20:09
Subject: STEM flagships
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You know how UVA is Virginia's flagship university where Virginia's top students attend, and VT is the de facto STEM flagship with strong STEM programs where Virginia's top STEM talent attends? Well, can you help me identify some other states' comparable STEM flagship? For instance...
U Michigan/Michigan State U
UT Austin/Texas A&M
UNC Chapel Hill/NC State
U Georgia/Georgia Tech
Ohio State/?
Penn State/?
Rutgers/?
Others?
False premise. As someone else indicated, top Virginia STEM talent does not go to Virginia Tech. Some of it does, but certainly not most. A higher number of TJ grads go to UVA and W&M than to VT, and TJ is the top STEM high school in the state.
Please post your citations.
DP
NP. This is TJ from last year (beginning on page 18). VT may get more in 2024 since they got rid of the silly ED.
https://issuu.com/tjtoday/docs/2023seniorissue
WM - 24
VT - 23
And no doubt more this year, as you said. Not really making the PP’s claim that more TJ grads go to WM than VT.
If you are a parent of the school you can see Naviance or Scoir (not PP but we have it for our non-TJ STEM public in a different area if VA): the top GPA and SAT kids, as well as the ones who took all the hard stem courses (APChem, Phys E&M, BC calc in 11th) almost all go to UVA over VT for Engineering and other STEM, IF they do not leave the state for GT or JHU or ivies. Some years a similar number go to VT and UVA, but that number says nothing. The total matriculating does not show what naviance shows, and what knowing the actual kids reveals: the smartest and most talented, from the highest math and science tracks, pick UVA in a head to head. Some pick WM over VT, if they want the ivy-size (particularly premed stems aiming for Bio or Chem majors). VT is the back up instate plan or is not even applied to, by the very top 10++%.
Another FCPS HS..if TJs Naviance info is anything like our school, it's basically worthless. 5 years of history with no ability to filter. Our school just shows applications and acceptances. Not how many enrolled.
Anonymous
06/05/2024 20:03
Subject: STEM flagships
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You know how UVA is Virginia's flagship university where Virginia's top students attend, and VT is the de facto STEM flagship with strong STEM programs where Virginia's top STEM talent attends? Well, can you help me identify some other states' comparable STEM flagship? For instance...
U Michigan/Michigan State U
UT Austin/Texas A&M
UNC Chapel Hill/NC State
U Georgia/Georgia Tech
Ohio State/?
Penn State/?
Rutgers/?
Others?
False premise. As someone else indicated, top Virginia STEM talent does not go to Virginia Tech. Some of it does, but certainly not most. A higher number of TJ grads go to UVA and W&M than to VT, and TJ is the top STEM high school in the state.
Please post your citations.
DP
NP. This is TJ from last year (beginning on page 18). VT may get more in 2024 since they got rid of the silly ED.
https://issuu.com/tjtoday/docs/2023seniorissue
WM - 24
VT - 23
And no doubt more this year, as you said. Not really making the PP’s claim that more TJ grads go to WM than VT.
If you are a parent of the school you can see Naviance or Scoir (not PP but we have it for our non-TJ STEM public in a different area if VA): the top GPA and SAT kids, as well as the ones who took all the hard stem courses (APChem, Phys E&M, BC calc in 11th) almost all go to UVA over VT for Engineering and other STEM, IF they do not leave the state for GT or JHU or ivies. Some years a similar number go to VT and UVA, but that number says nothing. The total matriculating does not show what naviance shows, and what knowing the actual kids reveals: the smartest and most talented, from the highest math and science tracks, pick UVA in a head to head. Some pick WM over VT, if they want the ivy-size (particularly premed stems aiming for Bio or Chem majors). VT is the back up instate plan or is not even applied to, by the very top 10++%.
Anonymous
06/05/2024 19:08
Subject: STEM flagships
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You know how UVA is Virginia's flagship university where Virginia's top students attend, and VT is the de facto STEM flagship with strong STEM programs where Virginia's top STEM talent attends? Well, can you help me identify some other states' comparable STEM flagship? For instance...
U Michigan/Michigan State U
UT Austin/Texas A&M
UNC Chapel Hill/NC State
U Georgia/Georgia Tech
Ohio State/?
Penn State/?
Rutgers/?
Others?
False premise. As someone else indicated, top Virginia STEM talent does not go to Virginia Tech. Some of it does, but certainly not most. A higher number of TJ grads go to UVA and W&M than to VT, and TJ is the top STEM high school in the state.
Please post your citations.
DP
NP. This is TJ from last year (beginning on page 18). VT may get more in 2024 since they got rid of the silly ED.
https://issuu.com/tjtoday/docs/2023seniorissue
WM - 24
VT - 23
And no doubt more this year, as you said. Not really making the PP’s claim that more TJ grads go to WM than VT.
Anonymous
06/05/2024 18:19
Subject: STEM flagships
Anonymous wrote:The term flagship is being overused these days. People are trying to use it to build an unbridgeable moat around their favored school in an effort to reduce competition. That isn't good.
While I agree with you DCUM never forgoes an opportunity to further slice and dice the colleges into discrete tiers (which is completely asinine), I think the term “flagship” university is generally understood to mean nothing more than the state university system’s primary campus, generally not a land grant. Of course there are exceptions, like Ohio State and Penn State. And some states it’s harder to identify what the main campus is. Like SUNY. But generally University of Alabama is Alabama’s flagship. That doesn’t mean it’s necessarily “better” (whatever that means in the context of comparing universities) than Auburn. Similar with UVA and VT. And UGa and GaTech. Indiana and Purdue. Etc.
Anonymous
06/05/2024 18:08
Subject: STEM flagships
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You know how UVA is Virginia's flagship university where Virginia's top students attend, and VT is the de facto STEM flagship with strong STEM programs where Virginia's top STEM talent attends? Well, can you help me identify some other states' comparable STEM flagship? For instance...
U Michigan/Michigan State U
UT Austin/Texas A&M
UNC Chapel Hill/NC State
U Georgia/Georgia Tech
Ohio State/?
Penn State/?
Rutgers/?
Others?
False premise. As someone else indicated, top Virginia STEM talent does not go to Virginia Tech. Some of it does, but certainly not most. A higher number of TJ grads go to UVA and W&M than to VT, and TJ is the top STEM high school in the state.
Please post your citations.
DP
NP. This is TJ from last year (beginning on page 18). VT may get more in 2024 since they got rid of the silly ED.
https://issuu.com/tjtoday/docs/2023seniorissue
Anonymous
06/05/2024 16:58
Subject: STEM flagships
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Add Wisconsin to the list.
Wisconsin and ?
This thread is about a state university that is NOT the flagship being stronger in STEM than the flagship school.
So if Wisconsin (University of Wisconsin at Madison) is the flagship, which Wisconsin school is stronger in STEM?
? OP asked "Well, can you help me identify some other states' comparable STEM flagship".. I took that to mean a state flagship that is known for strong STEM.
I interpreted it different. OP said that while UVA is the flagship for VA, VT is generally known as the strong STEM school. She wanted to know which other states had this--where there was a flagship but a different university was known as the strong STEM school.
That's why people were saying
UGA vs. Georgia Tech
Indiana University vs. Purdue
U of Alabama vs. Auburn
etc.
OP, can you clarify? Were you looking for an answer of just a single school that was a state flagship strong in STEM? Or were you looking for examples of a state school that was not the flagship but was stronger in STEM than the flagship?
I think OP is looking at this from a Virginia-centric perspective, where we have 2 de facto "flagships" UVA and VT (yes, I know UVA is higher ranked, so please don't write a million posts flexing superiority), one being widely known for its rigorous stem programs (I KNOW, UVA also has stem programs that smart people go through and become productive members of society, so shut it). I think the only states where there is an analogous situation is North Carolina (UNC/NCSU) and Texas (UTA/TAMU). All of the other examples aren't as analogous.
First, I just think the term "flagship" brings in a lot of baggage and puts discussions on the wrong footing. It should be avoided in my view. STEM = Science/Technology/Engineering/Mathematics. ALL schools will have at least S, T, and M, and most will have invested significantly and have comparative strengths and weaknesses, including schools in Virginia other than UVA and VT. Not all schools have engineering. I do not understand why you said North Carolina is analogous to Virginia because UVA does have a complete engineering program while UNC does not (it does have programs like biomedical). This was intended by the state to avoid duplication as NC State and UNC are only about 20 miles apart. There are other states more along the North Carolina lines like Georgia and Indiana. Your Texas example is wrong for another reason. UT has enormous STEM programs and investments, including engineering, and is highly ranked in many. No one serious would say Texas A&M is the "de facto" STEM flagship. They may say there are two flagships in Texas (UT and A&M), but not distinguish on the basis of STEM.
+1000
When both have Engineering (and of course the other STM), and one gets kids who are higher stats by a significant margin (Uva vs VT, UT vs A&M), then those are the obvious STEM winners. NotVT or A&M. Come on.
Anonymous
06/05/2024 16:16
Subject: STEM flagships
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:You know how UVA is Virginia's flagship university where Virginia's top students attend, and VT is the de facto STEM flagship with strong STEM programs where Virginia's top STEM talent attends? Well, can you help me identify some other states' comparable STEM flagship? For instance...
U Michigan/Michigan State U
UT Austin/Texas A&M
UNC Chapel Hill/NC State
U Georgia/Georgia Tech
Ohio State/?
Penn State/?
Rutgers/?
Others?
False premise. As someone else indicated, top Virginia STEM talent does not go to Virginia Tech. Some of it does, but certainly not most. A higher number of TJ grads go to UVA and W&M than to VT, and TJ is the top STEM high school in the state.
Please post your citations.
DP
Anonymous
06/05/2024 11:27
Subject: STEM flagships
Anonymous wrote:You know how UVA is Virginia's flagship university where Virginia's top students attend, and VT is the de facto STEM flagship with strong STEM programs where Virginia's top STEM talent attends? Well, can you help me identify some other states' comparable STEM flagship? For instance...
U Michigan/Michigan State U
UT Austin/Texas A&M
UNC Chapel Hill/NC State
U Georgia/Georgia Tech
Ohio State/?
Penn State/?
Rutgers/?
Others?
False premise. As someone else indicated, top Virginia STEM talent does not go to Virginia Tech. Some of it does, but certainly not most. A higher number of TJ grads go to UVA and W&M than to VT, and TJ is the top STEM high school in the state.
Anonymous
06/05/2024 11:26
Subject: STEM flagships
Anonymous wrote:Land grant universities - created to provide a practical education in ag and mechanical subjects especially, are sometimes what you’re thinking of. https://www.aplu.org/about-us/history-of-aplu/what-is-a-land-grant-university/
Ohio State, Penn State and Rutgers are land grants, as are Purdue, Iowa State, VT, Michigan State, NC State, etc. Today, the land grants are often very strong in engineering and agriculture.
Good map here:
https://www.nifa.usda.gov/sites/default/files/2023-04/NIFALGUs_MapREV_AI0522_508.pdf
Anonymous
06/05/2024 11:22
Subject: STEM flagships
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Add Wisconsin to the list.
Wisconsin and ?
This thread is about a state university that is NOT the flagship being stronger in STEM than the flagship school.
So if Wisconsin (University of Wisconsin at Madison) is the flagship, which Wisconsin school is stronger in STEM?
? OP asked "Well, can you help me identify some other states' comparable STEM flagship".. I took that to mean a state flagship that is known for strong STEM.
I interpreted it different. OP said that while UVA is the flagship for VA, VT is generally known as the strong STEM school. She wanted to know which other states had this--where there was a flagship but a different university was known as the strong STEM school.
That's why people were saying
UGA vs. Georgia Tech
Indiana University vs. Purdue
U of Alabama vs. Auburn
etc.
OP, can you clarify? Were you looking for an answer of just a single school that was a state flagship strong in STEM? Or were you looking for examples of a state school that was not the flagship but was stronger in STEM than the flagship?
I think OP is looking at this from a Virginia-centric perspective, where we have 2 de facto "flagships" UVA and VT (yes, I know UVA is higher ranked, so please don't write a million posts flexing superiority), one being widely known for its rigorous stem programs (I KNOW, UVA also has stem programs that smart people go through and become productive members of society, so shut it). I think the only states where there is an analogous situation is North Carolina (UNC/NCSU) and Texas (UTA/TAMU). All of the other examples aren't as analogous.
First, I just think the term "flagship" brings in a lot of baggage and puts discussions on the wrong footing. It should be avoided in my view. STEM = Science/Technology/Engineering/Mathematics. ALL schools will have at least S, T, and M, and most will have invested significantly and have comparative strengths and weaknesses, including schools in Virginia other than UVA and VT. Not all schools have engineering. I do not understand why you said North Carolina is analogous to Virginia because UVA does have a complete engineering program while UNC does not (it does have programs like biomedical). This was intended by the state to avoid duplication as NC State and UNC are only about 20 miles apart. There are other states more along the North Carolina lines like Georgia and Indiana. Your Texas example is wrong for another reason. UT has enormous STEM programs and investments, including engineering, and is highly ranked in many. No one serious would say Texas A&M is the "de facto" STEM flagship. They may say there are two flagships in Texas (UT and A&M), but not distinguish on the basis of STEM.
Anonymous
06/05/2024 07:36
Subject: STEM flagships
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Add Wisconsin to the list.
Wisconsin and ?
This thread is about a state university that is NOT the flagship being stronger in STEM than the flagship school.
So if Wisconsin (University of Wisconsin at Madison) is the flagship, which Wisconsin school is stronger in STEM?
? OP asked "Well, can you help me identify some other states' comparable STEM flagship".. I took that to mean a state flagship that is known for strong STEM.
I interpreted it different. OP said that while UVA is the flagship for VA, VT is generally known as the strong STEM school. She wanted to know which other states had this--where there was a flagship but a different university was known as the strong STEM school.
That's why people were saying
UGA vs. Georgia Tech
Indiana University vs. Purdue
U of Alabama vs. Auburn
etc.
OP, can you clarify? Were you looking for an answer of just a single school that was a state flagship strong in STEM? Or were you looking for examples of a state school that was not the flagship but was stronger in STEM than the flagship?
I think OP is looking at this from a Virginia-centric perspective, where we have 2 de facto "flagships" UVA and VT (yes, I know UVA is higher ranked, so please don't write a million posts flexing superiority), one being widely known for its rigorous stem programs (I KNOW, UVA also has stem programs that smart people go through and become productive members of society, so shut it). I think the only states where there is an analogous situation is North Carolina (UNC/NCSU) and Texas (UTA/TAMU). All of the other examples aren't as analogous.
Anonymous
06/05/2024 07:21
Subject: STEM flagships
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Clemson v. U of SC
NC State v. UNC
Thanks for actually answering the question. There are so many people on this board who are insecure, elitist, prestige slaves.
But the original premise isn't correct. There are not designated STEM Flagships. Many states do not have designated flagships period. It is just assumed that the one with University of <insert state> or the oldest is the flagship. There is a concept of the land grant university in the state, but the flagship may also be a land grant.
To say there is a STEM flagship suggests that the other colleges aren't doing STEM or at least not to the same level. That isn't a correct general statement.
I think some state flagships are known for their strong STEM majors, like Purdue and UMD, while others aren't, like UVA.
The person above was correct that the premise is incorrect and there is really no such thing as 1) Flagship, 2) STEM flagship, or I'd add 3) a school necessarily being "better" in all of these areas. Nonetheless, most people would consider Indiana University to be the "flagship" of Indiana, not Purdue.
There's no such thing as flagship, but IU is Indiana's flagship. Gotcha. Newsflash...all of you readers out there are so stupid for thinking UVA is Virginia's flagship. You're imagining things. There is no such thing as a flagship. Just ask the PP who knows all of the flagships even though there is no such thing as a flagship.
LOL!