Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this is a you issue. Things should not be tit for tat OP. I don't expect reciprocity for my generosity.

This.

Also, "generosity" cannot be measured in absolute terms because not everyone has the same amount to give. If a billionaire treats you to a $200/plate dinner, are they more "generous" than your school teacher friend who buys you a coffee? No, the teacher is spending much bigger percentage of her overall wealth on you than the billionaire. To the billionaire, that dinner is nothing.

A friend on a budget has to be careful about what they spend. That's what it means to be on a budget. In that context, generous could mean dedicating space in their budget to pay for themselves when they hang out with you, like going to a festival or a concert with you and buying their own ticket and food. Because the alternative for them is to say "no I can't" because they can't allocate the money, but they are choosing to make space in their budget to do things with you that you enjoy.

I've never been upset that a friend isn't hosting me or paying my way for anything. I have been frustrated if a friend is asking a lot of me and acts entitled to it, but that could take the form of expecting me to wait an hour for them when we go out because they are always late, or always canceling on me last minute, or something like that. It's rarely about money. I just don't think money is something that should come between friends if you do it right.

This is such a nice way to look at it. Looking at your friends this way is much more generous than what OP is doing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:You may overestimate how much money they have.

A lot of my friends think I make a lot more money than I do. We are on a very tight budget and actually planning a move out of the DMV because cost of living is so high here. We are extremely austere in our personal spending. We also have some problems in our extended family that put a financial strain on us.

We do try to reciprocate as much as we can. We host in a limited fashion (like one family a month or so, no parties, we cook ourselves). We pick up the tab when we can. But many of our friends are much healthier. Many have families who give them money, helped them buy homes, pay for vacations. For them, picking up a bar tab is NBD. For us it means we have to cut back somewhere else.

I would rather either (1) not be friends with someone, or (2) be friends but everyone pays for themselves always, than be friends with someone who is going to get mad if they treat me and I don't reciprocate to the exact same level. Because otherwise it means my friends can dictate how much money I spend, and I don't think I can afford that.

No one is asking for you to reciprocate at the same level.

I was annoyed and peeved when I wrote this post. I’m over it now.

I have a childhood friend who is very generous with others and has never done anything for me in decades. I married well and she is divorced. I think it bothers me that she is generous to others and not me. I guess she has too many people to be generous to so I am last on her list and she knows I have a rich husband.

The other friend is just kind of rude, always accepting and never giving. I will just always split checks with her. It is fine.

Clearly not, as you've constantly belittled people who suggest this in this thread.

And LOL@ "you" being "generous" with your "rich husbands" money Maybe they don't treat because you are insufferable

Anonymous wrote:I was accused of being cheap once because I wanted separate checks at dinner. I’m not sure how splitting a check would have been better.

You were not cheap, this person just wanted you to pay for part of their food/wine/etc. They are really the cheap one since they apparently can't afford their own meal.

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Anonymous wrote:I was accused of being cheap once because I wanted separate checks at dinner. I’m not sure how splitting a check would have been better.

I once went out with a group of women where we each ordered an entree and I ordered 2-3 appetizers. Every single person ate the appetizers. When the bill came, one women split the bill and charged only me for the appetizers. I remember having a bbq or some gathering a week later and I didn’t invite the woman who stuck me with paying for the appetizers. It was less about the money and more about the principle. Other women said they ate the appetizers and would chip in. I thought it was ridiculous. Never had that happen in my 40 years.

I have gone out to eat in groups since high school. The person who says they didn’t eat the shrimp appetizer or whatever is annoying.

Did you ask them if they wanted appetizers, or did you just order?

I didn’t ask if they wanted to share and split the cost if that is what you are asking.

I have gone out to eat for decades and that was the first time anyone has done that. I would only have ordered one for myself if not sharing with others. I can’t eat 3 appetizers by myself.

It was not an expensive place. I want to say everyone paid $20 and then I paid $50.

This is so weird. Why would you order appetizers without asking people if they want to share? The usual implication is that if you order it and you offer it to others, you are still paying. Did you expect everyone to chip $2 for eating a shrimp? Odd.

+1, in that situation I would just pay for the appetizers (and not order them if I didn't want to pay). Also PP screwed things up by ordering 3 appetizers instead of an entree like everyone else. She ordered more than twice as much food than everyone else, but no entree for herself. The person who split check probably felt it was unfair to make everyone else pay for the PP's weird ordering choices.

The PP handled that poorly and then "punished" the woman who split the check by excluding her from an invite. Ridiculous.

I have to wonder if the PP gave anyone the option of which apps to order. If she picked them then maybe they weren’t what the others would have chosen had they known they were going to pay for them. If you order food without input and then offer some, it seems like you chose to buy them and are sharing.

That said I am so glad I’m at an age where we all just split evenly (or one person picks up dinner this time and we get dinner the next). I have one friend who tends to order more drinks than me, but I like to get a dessert and sometimes an app I want, so I figure it all evens out. If I was stressed about a bill then I just wouldn’t go because I couldn’t afford it and/or am not a good match as a dining companion if there is a huge discrepancy in ordering.

An awkward story I’ll share — years ago in my 20s I went out to dinner with a big group (like 15-20 people, which is already a server’s nightmare I know). We all split a bunch of food and pitchers of drinks. One girl out of everyone insisted on a separate bill just for what she had ordered. You could tell it was a huge pain for the server (this was way back before Venmo and apps to more easily calculate things).

The rest of us just handed over cards and told her to split things evenly including the automatic gratuity that was added.

The amount we all ended up owing … was within pennies of what the separate check girl had paid. So all that awkwardness and she still paid the same! She looked cheap and didn’t save a dime. She is also stingy in so many other ways too.

Anonymous wrote:I think it's a personality trait. Some of the least generous people I know are total takers with tons of money.

+1 most peoples attitude towards money is emotional not rational

Regarding hosting, I used to love to host, but over time our house has become in such despair that I am too embarrassed to have people over. Just know that it is not always selfish reasons why people don’t reciprocate.

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Anonymous wrote:I was accused of being cheap once because I wanted separate checks at dinner. I’m not sure how splitting a check would have been better.

I once went out with a group of women where we each ordered an entree and I ordered 2-3 appetizers. Every single person ate the appetizers. When the bill came, one women split the bill and charged only me for the appetizers. I remember having a bbq or some gathering a week later and I didn’t invite the woman who stuck me with paying for the appetizers. It was less about the money and more about the principle. Other women said they ate the appetizers and would chip in. I thought it was ridiculous. Never had that happen in my 40 years.

I have gone out to eat in groups since high school. The person who says they didn’t eat the shrimp appetizer or whatever is annoying.

Did you ask them if they wanted appetizers, or did you just order?

I didn’t ask if they wanted to share and split the cost if that is what you are asking.

I have gone out to eat for decades and that was the first time anyone has done that. I would only have ordered one for myself if not sharing with others. I can’t eat 3 appetizers by myself.

It was not an expensive place. I want to say everyone paid $20 and then I paid $50.

Super weird not to say “should we get a few apps for the table? What about the shrimp, crab dip and tartare?” Or something like that if you are ordering for the group. I would always ask for input and not just order my favorites.

I honestly can’t remember how we ordered. It was a few years ago.

I go out to eat often with others. I have eaten out in groups of 20+. This was a dinner with a few women who have known one another for a few years casually. Out of the hundreds of times I have eaten out in a group, this was the first and only time someone made me pay for a shared appetizer. I didn’t order some obscure thing.

I mean, most of us go out to eat with people often and don’t have a problem with paying for what we ordered.

And OMG, you once went to dinner with 20 people! Like that makes you some sort of expert on eating out.

I personally don’t mind at all if someone wants to just pay for what they eat or split the bill. Splitting is fine, but if someone skips alcohol or consumes substantially less, I always suggest they pay less of the split so they have that option. I don’t want them to have to bring it up. That’s just being polite.

My husband is very successful and all his friends from work, college, grad school and sports are all relatively well off. They never itemize bills. One person picks up the bill or they split evenly.

I have a mix of friends who are financial strapped, selfish, have eating disorders, take advantage of others, don’t reciprocate, etc. Not all my friends are this way but many are.

If I have invited you over to my home 20, 30, 40x and fed you and your kids snacks, fruit, countless meals, wouldn’t it be normal for one to offer to buy my kid an ice cream at the park?

We budget so we can be generous- in situations where it is needed- and don't accept invitations or events where covering the whole check or whatever would break our budget.

It's not about the budget. They are just cheap. Budgeting is saying this is what I have, and this is what I am comfortable spending and making decisions based off of those parameters. Including whether to accept invitations or not.

We dont host for lots of reasons: the size of our house, the lack of backyard amenities, etc. I do drop off baskets for new mothers and have dinner delivered/donations made for other types of life events. We do bring gifts or small tokens to the hosts and offer to bring food/drink to daytime events. If we go out to evening events, we will usually buy a round or cover the taxi, etc. We have gone to dinner for a birthday and then been surprised by needing to chip in to cover the birthday couple, an event that has never been reciprocated for either of our birthdays. The latter is an invitation we won't accept in the future because instead of a 100-125 dinner plus babysitter we ended up close to 350 plus babysitter. The "budget" got adjusted for that and so did our future responses for similar events because we do not budget $500 for a Friday night out with friends. And because of our incomes and other financial responsibilities $500 is a lot. Some people may find us cheap because we balk at a $500 dinner.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was accused of being cheap once because I wanted separate checks at dinner. I’m not sure how splitting a check would have been better.

I once went out with a group of women where we each ordered an entree and I ordered 2-3 appetizers. Every single person ate the appetizers. When the bill came, one women split the bill and charged only me for the appetizers. I remember having a bbq or some gathering a week later and I didn’t invite the woman who stuck me with paying for the appetizers. It was less about the money and more about the principle. Other women said they ate the appetizers and would chip in. I thought it was ridiculous. Never had that happen in my 40 years.

I have gone out to eat in groups since high school. The person who says they didn’t eat the shrimp appetizer or whatever is annoying.

Did you ask them if they wanted appetizers, or did you just order?

I didn’t ask if they wanted to share and split the cost if that is what you are asking.

I have gone out to eat for decades and that was the first time anyone has done that. I would only have ordered one for myself if not sharing with others. I can’t eat 3 appetizers by myself.

It was not an expensive place. I want to say everyone paid $20 and then I paid $50.

Super weird not to say “should we get a few apps for the table? What about the shrimp, crab dip and tartare?” Or something like that if you are ordering for the group. I would always ask for input and not just order my favorites.

I honestly can’t remember how we ordered. It was a few years ago.

I go out to eat often with others. I have eaten out in groups of 20+. This was a dinner with a few women who have known one another for a few years casually. Out of the hundreds of times I have eaten out in a group, this was the first and only time someone made me pay for a shared appetizer. I didn’t order some obscure thing.

I mean, most of us go out to eat with people often and don’t have a problem with paying for what we ordered.

And OMG, you once went to dinner with 20 people! Like that makes you some sort of expert on eating out.

I personally don’t mind at all if someone wants to just pay for what they eat or split the bill. Splitting is fine, but if someone skips alcohol or consumes substantially less, I always suggest they pay less of the split so they have that option. I don’t want them to have to bring it up. That’s just being polite.

Anonymous wrote:It’s anxiety inducing for some. I feel awkward when someone treats me to something and feel like I now owe them something and get stressed looking for an opportunity to treat them back. When it does come up, they decline and I don’t know if I should insist or let it go. I find hosting at my house stressful too. I have hosted a few dinners at my house but it’s been awhile. I get self conscious that I’m not being a good enough host or I forget something I was supposed to serve or worry that people are getting bored. I would much rather meet people out and split the bill. It’s not that I’m not generous, I always tip, give teachers gift cards etc. its just stressful. Please don’t take it the wrong way or personal.

+1

I could have written this. I even find it stressful hosting kid parties. I am generous when I buy gifts. I really just hate hosting. It's so anxiety provoking.

If you are UMC you are just cheap. But if you are really on a budget it may be necessary to stay on budget.

Personality trait, I am like you OP.

The difference I've notice is that they are usually someone unequivocally sure of their decisions!

Where I am more of guilty feeling, unsure and maybe a bit of people pleaser!

As you get older, you might feel less bother by it and it actually bring you joy that you've not changed in all those years

Anonymous wrote:Sounds like this is a you issue. Things should not be tit for tat OP. I don't expect reciprocity for my generosity.

This.

Also, "generosity" cannot be measured in absolute terms because not everyone has the same amount to give. If a billionaire treats you to a $200/plate dinner, are they more "generous" than your school teacher friend who buys you a coffee? No, the teacher is spending much bigger percentage of her overall wealth on you than the billionaire. To the billionaire, that dinner is nothing.

A friend on a budget has to be careful about what they spend. That's what it means to be on a budget. In that context, generous could mean dedicating space in their budget to pay for themselves when they hang out with you, like going to a festival or a concert with you and buying their own ticket and food. Because the alternative for them is to say "no I can't" because they can't allocate the money, but they are choosing to make space in their budget to do things with you that you enjoy.

I've never been upset that a friend isn't hosting me or paying my way for anything. I have been frustrated if a friend is asking a lot of me and acts entitled to it, but that could take the form of expecting me to wait an hour for them when we go out because they are always late, or always canceling on me last minute, or something like that. It's rarely about money. I just don't think money is something that should come between friends if you do it right.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was accused of being cheap once because I wanted separate checks at dinner. I’m not sure how splitting a check would have been better.

I once went out with a group of women where we each ordered an entree and I ordered 2-3 appetizers. Every single person ate the appetizers. When the bill came, one women split the bill and charged only me for the appetizers. I remember having a bbq or some gathering a week later and I didn’t invite the woman who stuck me with paying for the appetizers. It was less about the money and more about the principle. Other women said they ate the appetizers and would chip in. I thought it was ridiculous. Never had that happen in my 40 years.

I have gone out to eat in groups since high school. The person who says they didn’t eat the shrimp appetizer or whatever is annoying.

Did you ask them if they wanted appetizers, or did you just order?

I didn’t ask if they wanted to share and split the cost if that is what you are asking.

I have gone out to eat for decades and that was the first time anyone has done that. I would only have ordered one for myself if not sharing with others. I can’t eat 3 appetizers by myself.

It was not an expensive place. I want to say everyone paid $20 and then I paid $50.

Super weird not to say “should we get a few apps for the table? What about the shrimp, crab dip and tartare?” Or something like that if you are ordering for the group. I would always ask for input and not just order my favorites.

I honestly can’t remember how we ordered. It was a few years ago.

I go out to eat often with others. I have eaten out in groups of 20+. This was a dinner with a few women who have known one another for a few years casually. Out of the hundreds of times I have eaten out in a group, this was the first and only time someone made me pay for a shared appetizer. I didn’t order some obscure thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I was accused of being cheap once because I wanted separate checks at dinner. I’m not sure how splitting a check would have been better.

I once went out with a group of women where we each ordered an entree and I ordered 2-3 appetizers. Every single person ate the appetizers. When the bill came, one women split the bill and charged only me for the appetizers. I remember having a bbq or some gathering a week later and I didn’t invite the woman who stuck me with paying for the appetizers. It was less about the money and more about the principle. Other women said they ate the appetizers and would chip in. I thought it was ridiculous. Never had that happen in my 40 years.

I have gone out to eat in groups since high school. The person who says they didn’t eat the shrimp appetizer or whatever is annoying.

Did you ask them if they wanted appetizers, or did you just order?

I didn’t ask if they wanted to share and split the cost if that is what you are asking.

I have gone out to eat for decades and that was the first time anyone has done that. I would only have ordered one for myself if not sharing with others. I can’t eat 3 appetizers by myself.

It was not an expensive place. I want to say everyone paid $20 and then I paid $50.

This is so weird. Why would you order appetizers without asking people if they want to share? The usual implication is that if you order it and you offer it to others, you are still paying. Did you expect everyone to chip $2 for eating a shrimp? Odd.

+1, in that situation I would just pay for the appetizers (and not order them if I didn't want to pay). Also PP screwed things up by ordering 3 appetizers instead of an entree like everyone else. She ordered more than twice as much food than everyone else, but no entree for herself. The person who split check probably felt it was unfair to make everyone else pay for the PP's weird ordering choices.

The PP handled that poorly and then "punished" the woman who split the check by excluding her from an invite. Ridiculous.