Anonymous
05/22/2024 09:45
Subject: What do liberal arts majors do?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Everybody has an anecdote, but you can only go based on the averages.
I would hazard nearly all the folks suggesting you pursue liberal arts have a certain caliber of school in mind. I doubt even you would suggest studying English at Frostburg State.
So, I don't know the cut-off...but I think it's only a select group of schools that any PP really believes you should pursue a liberal arts degree with zero expectation of graduate school.
As far as I know, there are zero liberal arts majors actually founding the AI companies that everyone discusses above. Go look at the Bios of OpenAI, Anthropic and others. The vast majority of the staffs have STEM/Math/Physics backgrounds.
For that matter, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison, Sergei, Larry Page...none have liberal arts backgrounds.
That doesn't mean they don't value great communicators and critical thinkers. Perhaps the ideal graduate has a dual CS/Liberal Arts degree.
A liberal arts major would know to inform you that you cannot, in fact, go by the "averages" since averages are skewed.
If you, me, and Sally Lee are in a room with Jeff Bezos, we have an average income in the billions. But one of us is not like the others.
This is a silly argument. Ok, you have to go by a statistically significant average or look at statistically significant median incomes.
Didn't think I had to make that clear, but I guess I do.
Anonymous
05/22/2024 09:45
Subject: What do liberal arts majors do?
Anonymous wrote:Most cannot do the hard/quant majors.
That's why you have colleges with literally hundreds of majors. The colleges still make their money. The graduates are left to find a way to earn a living.
Most shouldn’t do the hard/quant majors. We don’t need millions of mathematicians. Look at what actually needs to happen day-to-day in a corporation, government department, or university. Sales, services, HR, creatives, legal and compliance, marketing, management etc. All important, and liberal arts can prepare you well.
Anonymous
05/22/2024 09:43
Subject: What do liberal arts majors do?
OP seems a bit ignorant of what liberal arts is
Anonymous
05/22/2024 09:42
Subject: What do liberal arts majors do?
Anonymous wrote:Everybody has an anecdote, but you can only go based on the averages.
I would hazard nearly all the folks suggesting you pursue liberal arts have a certain caliber of school in mind. I doubt even you would suggest studying English at Frostburg State.
So, I don't know the cut-off...but I think it's only a select group of schools that any PP really believes you should pursue a liberal arts degree with zero expectation of graduate school.
As far as I know, there are zero liberal arts majors actually founding the AI companies that everyone discusses above. Go look at the Bios of OpenAI, Anthropic and others. The vast majority of the staffs have STEM/Math/Physics backgrounds.
For that matter, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison, Sergei, Larry Page...none have liberal arts backgrounds.
That doesn't mean they don't value great communicators and critical thinkers. Perhaps the ideal graduate has a dual CS/Liberal Arts degree.
A liberal arts major would know to inform you that you cannot, in fact, go by the "averages" since averages are skewed.
If you, me, and Sally Lee are in a room with Jeff Bezos, we have an average income in the billions. But one of us is not like the others.
Anonymous
05/22/2024 09:40
Subject: What do liberal arts majors do?
Everybody has an anecdote, but you can only go based on the averages.
I would hazard nearly all the folks suggesting you pursue liberal arts have a certain caliber of school in mind. I doubt even you would suggest studying English at Frostburg State.
So, I don't know the cut-off...but I think it's only a select group of schools that any PP really believes you should pursue a liberal arts degree with zero expectation of graduate school.
As far as I know, there are zero liberal arts majors actually founding the AI companies that everyone discusses above. Go look at the Bios of OpenAI, Anthropic and others. The vast majority of the staffs have STEM/Math/Physics backgrounds.
For that matter, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison, Sergei, Larry Page...none have liberal arts backgrounds.
That doesn't mean they don't value great communicators and critical thinkers. Perhaps the ideal graduate has a dual CS/Liberal Arts degree.
I would hazard nearly all the folks suggesting you pursue liberal arts have a certain caliber of school in mind. I doubt even you would suggest studying English at Frostburg State.
So, I don't know the cut-off...but I think it's only a select group of schools that any PP really believes you should pursue a liberal arts degree with zero expectation of graduate school.
As far as I know, there are zero liberal arts majors actually founding the AI companies that everyone discusses above. Go look at the Bios of OpenAI, Anthropic and others. The vast majority of the staffs have STEM/Math/Physics backgrounds.
For that matter, Jeff Bezos, Mark Zuckerberg, Larry Ellison, Sergei, Larry Page...none have liberal arts backgrounds.
That doesn't mean they don't value great communicators and critical thinkers. Perhaps the ideal graduate has a dual CS/Liberal Arts degree.
Anonymous
05/22/2024 09:39
Subject: What do liberal arts majors do?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:1/3 of global CEOs of Fortune 500 companies have liberal arts degrees.
A lot of those are economics tho
Economics is a good major unlike those humanities majors like English, communications, anthropology, etc. etc.
I would argue the same skills are being taught, just looking at human behavior through different lenses.
Economics is ultimately about people and how they behave. Just like anthropology, communications, and English.
I do agree the fields those might take you into might have wildly varying pay scales, but not everyone is motivated by a top-earning paycheck. If someone has a passion for anthropology, they'll accept lower pay than a computer scientist. And the difference in an AI world is the computer scientist is more likely to be displaced than the anthropologist, who will APPLY AI to their work.
More to the point, the foundational skills of all these majors are essentially the same, which makes these people highly desirable for large global Fortune 500 companies -- should those majors even desire to work in such an environment.
I have a liberal arts degree in philosophy. I earn $275,000 a year and have earned in the $200s since my 30s.
I realize anecdote is not evidence, but the notion that there's no value in liberal arts is not grounded in reality. And it also doesn't herald the future, where humanities degrees will be more coveted than engineering or computer science. Just ask Mark Cuban.
Sorry that's not the reality.
Harvard Economics: $124,570
Harvard English: $49,570
Employers who actually pay don't agree with you.
There is a huge difference in starting salaries. Much less difference after 15 or 20 years, and some studies show the difference can even reverse.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/good-news-liberal-arts-majors-your-peers-probably-wont-outearn-you-forever-1473645902
Anyway there is a lot more to life than earning 140k at 23. I spent my 20s traveling and studying and doing some low-paid work. Now at 50 I earn $350k. I wouldn’t change a thing. History degree, by the way (where I learned not to focus unduly on the short term)…
LOL there are a lot more to life with 140k at 23 like traveling and experiencing the world.
Much harder with 60K unless you are a trust fund kid. Pay rent.
Disagree. Once you are on the treadmill it is very hard to get off. Very few do. And before you know it you have bought a place and the ties and obligations build up.
Travel costs next to nothing. I wasn’t a trust-fund kid and I traveled the world with no money from my parents. I volunteered, worked doing everything from teaching English and tutoring to working in a warehouse, and spent very little. Had a great time and learned a lot.
Anonymous
05/22/2024 09:39
Subject: What do liberal arts majors do?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:1/3 of global CEOs of Fortune 500 companies have liberal arts degrees.
A lot of those are economics tho
Economics is a good major unlike those humanities majors like English, communications, anthropology, etc. etc.
I would argue the same skills are being taught, just looking at human behavior through different lenses.
Economics is ultimately about people and how they behave. Just like anthropology, communications, and English.
I do agree the fields those might take you into might have wildly varying pay scales, but not everyone is motivated by a top-earning paycheck. If someone has a passion for anthropology, they'll accept lower pay than a computer scientist. And the difference in an AI world is the computer scientist is more likely to be displaced than the anthropologist, who will APPLY AI to their work.
More to the point, the foundational skills of all these majors are essentially the same, which makes these people highly desirable for large global Fortune 500 companies -- should those majors even desire to work in such an environment.
I have a liberal arts degree in philosophy. I earn $275,000 a year and have earned in the $200s since my 30s.
I realize anecdote is not evidence, but the notion that there's no value in liberal arts is not grounded in reality. And it also doesn't herald the future, where humanities degrees will be more coveted than engineering or computer science. Just ask Mark Cuban.
Sorry that's not the reality.
Harvard Economics: $124,570
Harvard English: $49,570
Employers who actually pay don't agree with you.
There is a huge difference in starting salaries. Much less difference after 15 or 20 years, and some studies show the difference can even reverse.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/good-news-liberal-arts-majors-your-peers-probably-wont-outearn-you-forever-1473645902
Anyway there is a lot more to life than earning 140k at 23. I spent my 20s traveling and studying and doing some low-paid work. Now at 50 I earn $350k. I wouldn’t change a thing. History degree, by the way (where I learned not to focus unduly on the short term)…
LOL there are a lot more to life with 140k at 23 like traveling and experiencing the world.
Much harder with 60K unless you are a trust fund kid. Pay rent.
DP: Actually the opposite is more true--when you are not gunning for a high earning position, you find some teaching English internationally position or other similar, use that to travel the world and pay your rent in LCOL countries. As you meet people, you often find other job opportunities. You develop a lot of experience, develop a solid sense of your self and the world, meet a lot of people and figure out what you want to do with this one life you have. This path is easier than it ever was with the ability to stay on your parent's health insurance until age 26 and/or purchase cheap traveler's insurance or ACA in the US. This self-development plus international work history isn't too hard to then translate into a US career-oriented job in your mid-20s.
You're never going to convince the overly anxious person who's all in on being a STEM drone that their decision, however valid for them or their children, isn't without more risk in the new and emerging workplace or right for everyone. You can tell how anxious they are by their flailing, whereas the liberal arts people are calm, collected, and know their value.
what utter horse shite
Methinks thou doth protest too much. (That's a line from William Shakespeare's play entitled "Hamlet," spoken by Gertrude, who was Hamlet's mother. William Shakespeare is a famous playwright who was active in the 16 and 17th centuries; I feel the need to explain that to you since you were not a liberal arts major and probably have heard the expression before but didn't know where it came from).
Anonymous
05/22/2024 09:38
Subject: Re:What do liberal arts majors do?
Anonymous wrote:https://collegescorecard.ed.gov/
Harvard English: $49,675
Harvard CS: $256,539
Look at the enormous gap. Imagine why? LOL
Good luck with humanities majors in no name schools.
As has been noted, college score card is ONLY kids getting FEDERAL (ie Pell) FA. That's a sliver. Do you know how many liberal arts majors from Williams and Dartmouth go to GS and McKinsey? A lot. Are they the Pell kids? No. And this data is for the 4th year out of college, which is hardly mid career.
But I agree, in 2005 to 2020ish - CS was the fastest way to make money. It's also the shortest career ... which is fine, but understand you have to move into management or prepare to get aged out.
____ here's the fine print:
The median annual earnings of individuals who received federal financial aid during their studies and completed an award at the indicated field of study. To be included in the median earnings calculation, the individuals needed to be working and not be enrolled in school during the year when earnings are measured. Median earnings are measured in the fourth full year after the student completed their award.
Anonymous
05/22/2024 09:37
Subject: What do liberal arts majors do?
Most cannot do the hard/quant majors.
That's why you have colleges with literally hundreds of majors. The colleges still make their money. The graduates are left to find a way to earn a living.
That's why you have colleges with literally hundreds of majors. The colleges still make their money. The graduates are left to find a way to earn a living.
Anonymous
05/22/2024 09:36
Subject: What do liberal arts majors do?
I majored in Political Science at a SLAC. I then got an MBA and make 7 figures.
Both my DCs went to liberal arts schools (although one to the liberal arts school of a major university). One is a consultant, the other is in marketing. Both make 6 figures. One of them started in a relatively low paying job out of college but that only lasted about 18 months before significant increases.
Both my DCs went to liberal arts schools (although one to the liberal arts school of a major university). One is a consultant, the other is in marketing. Both make 6 figures. One of them started in a relatively low paying job out of college but that only lasted about 18 months before significant increases.
Anonymous
05/22/2024 09:34
Subject: What do liberal arts majors do?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:1/3 of global CEOs of Fortune 500 companies have liberal arts degrees.
A lot of those are economics tho
Economics is a good major unlike those humanities majors like English, communications, anthropology, etc. etc.
I would argue the same skills are being taught, just looking at human behavior through different lenses.
Economics is ultimately about people and how they behave. Just like anthropology, communications, and English.
I do agree the fields those might take you into might have wildly varying pay scales, but not everyone is motivated by a top-earning paycheck. If someone has a passion for anthropology, they'll accept lower pay than a computer scientist. And the difference in an AI world is the computer scientist is more likely to be displaced than the anthropologist, who will APPLY AI to their work.
More to the point, the foundational skills of all these majors are essentially the same, which makes these people highly desirable for large global Fortune 500 companies -- should those majors even desire to work in such an environment.
I have a liberal arts degree in philosophy. I earn $275,000 a year and have earned in the $200s since my 30s.
I realize anecdote is not evidence, but the notion that there's no value in liberal arts is not grounded in reality. And it also doesn't herald the future, where humanities degrees will be more coveted than engineering or computer science. Just ask Mark Cuban.
Sorry that's not the reality.
Harvard Economics: $124,570
Harvard English: $49,570
Employers who actually pay don't agree with you.
There is a huge difference in starting salaries. Much less difference after 15 or 20 years, and some studies show the difference can even reverse.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/good-news-liberal-arts-majors-your-peers-probably-wont-outearn-you-forever-1473645902
Anyway there is a lot more to life than earning 140k at 23. I spent my 20s traveling and studying and doing some low-paid work. Now at 50 I earn $350k. I wouldn’t change a thing. History degree, by the way (where I learned not to focus unduly on the short term)…
LOL there are a lot more to life with 140k at 23 like traveling and experiencing the world.
Much harder with 60K unless you are a trust fund kid. Pay rent.
DP: Actually the opposite is more true--when you are not gunning for a high earning position, you find some teaching English internationally position or other similar, use that to travel the world and pay your rent in LCOL countries. As you meet people, you often find other job opportunities. You develop a lot of experience, develop a solid sense of your self and the world, meet a lot of people and figure out what you want to do with this one life you have. This path is easier than it ever was with the ability to stay on your parent's health insurance until age 26 and/or purchase cheap traveler's insurance or ACA in the US. This self-development plus international work history isn't too hard to then translate into a US career-oriented job in your mid-20s.
You're never going to convince the overly anxious person who's all in on being a STEM drone that their decision, however valid for them or their children, isn't without more risk in the new and emerging workplace or right for everyone. You can tell how anxious they are by their flailing, whereas the liberal arts people are calm, collected, and know their value.
what utter horse shite
Anonymous
05/22/2024 09:33
Subject: What do liberal arts majors do?
Anonymous wrote:I agree that a liberal arts major is a blessing, a privilege, and you can do anything you want with it.
Also, there’s a good article in the Atlantic recently about how a liberal arts major was very important to one persons relative during WWII. I felt like the article was a little boomer and greatest generation-y , but I could see the point.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/05/philip-shribman-liberal-arts-wwii/677836/
bolded is key.
Yes, 50 years ago, a liberal arts degree was good enough to get a good paying job. That was because there weren't lots of people with professional degrees.
Much different today.
Anonymous
05/22/2024 09:33
Subject: What do liberal arts majors do?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:1/3 of global CEOs of Fortune 500 companies have liberal arts degrees.
A lot of those are economics tho
Economics is a good major unlike those humanities majors like English, communications, anthropology, etc. etc.
I would argue the same skills are being taught, just looking at human behavior through different lenses.
Economics is ultimately about people and how they behave. Just like anthropology, communications, and English.
I do agree the fields those might take you into might have wildly varying pay scales, but not everyone is motivated by a top-earning paycheck. If someone has a passion for anthropology, they'll accept lower pay than a computer scientist. And the difference in an AI world is the computer scientist is more likely to be displaced than the anthropologist, who will APPLY AI to their work.
More to the point, the foundational skills of all these majors are essentially the same, which makes these people highly desirable for large global Fortune 500 companies -- should those majors even desire to work in such an environment.
I have a liberal arts degree in philosophy. I earn $275,000 a year and have earned in the $200s since my 30s.
I realize anecdote is not evidence, but the notion that there's no value in liberal arts is not grounded in reality. And it also doesn't herald the future, where humanities degrees will be more coveted than engineering or computer science. Just ask Mark Cuban.
Sorry that's not the reality.
Harvard Economics: $124,570
Harvard English: $49,570
Employers who actually pay don't agree with you.
There is a huge difference in starting salaries. Much less difference after 15 or 20 years, and some studies show the difference can even reverse.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/good-news-liberal-arts-majors-your-peers-probably-wont-outearn-you-forever-1473645902
Anyway there is a lot more to life than earning 140k at 23. I spent my 20s traveling and studying and doing some low-paid work. Now at 50 I earn $350k. I wouldn’t change a thing. History degree, by the way (where I learned not to focus unduly on the short term)…
LOL there are a lot more to life with 140k at 23 like traveling and experiencing the world.
Much harder with 60K unless you are a trust fund kid. Pay rent.
DP: Actually the opposite is more true--when you are not gunning for a high earning position, you find some teaching English internationally position or other similar, use that to travel the world and pay your rent in LCOL countries. As you meet people, you often find other job opportunities. You develop a lot of experience, develop a solid sense of your self and the world, meet a lot of people and figure out what you want to do with this one life you have. This path is easier than it ever was with the ability to stay on your parent's health insurance until age 26 and/or purchase cheap traveler's insurance or ACA in the US. This self-development plus international work history isn't too hard to then translate into a US career-oriented job in your mid-20s.
My bilingual kid considered this, but there a huge problem with this.
What are you going to do after a while?
Not much option for formal ESL teacher.
Anonymous
05/22/2024 09:31
Subject: What do liberal arts majors do?
+1 unless you are going into debt to travel. I love traveling. I wanted to travel in my early 20s, but I wasn't making enough to do that without going into debt, and I wasn't going to do that. Once I got into tech a few years later, started making more than double what I used to make, that's when I started to really travel.Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:1/3 of global CEOs of Fortune 500 companies have liberal arts degrees.
A lot of those are economics tho
Economics is a good major unlike those humanities majors like English, communications, anthropology, etc. etc.
I would argue the same skills are being taught, just looking at human behavior through different lenses.
Economics is ultimately about people and how they behave. Just like anthropology, communications, and English.
I do agree the fields those might take you into might have wildly varying pay scales, but not everyone is motivated by a top-earning paycheck. If someone has a passion for anthropology, they'll accept lower pay than a computer scientist. And the difference in an AI world is the computer scientist is more likely to be displaced than the anthropologist, who will APPLY AI to their work.
More to the point, the foundational skills of all these majors are essentially the same, which makes these people highly desirable for large global Fortune 500 companies -- should those majors even desire to work in such an environment.
I have a liberal arts degree in philosophy. I earn $275,000 a year and have earned in the $200s since my 30s.
I realize anecdote is not evidence, but the notion that there's no value in liberal arts is not grounded in reality. And it also doesn't herald the future, where humanities degrees will be more coveted than engineering or computer science. Just ask Mark Cuban.
Sorry that's not the reality.
Harvard Economics: $124,570
Harvard English: $49,570
Employers who actually pay don't agree with you.
There is a huge difference in starting salaries. Much less difference after 15 or 20 years, and some studies show the difference can even reverse.
https://www.wsj.com/articles/good-news-liberal-arts-majors-your-peers-probably-wont-outearn-you-forever-1473645902
Anyway there is a lot more to life than earning 140k at 23. I spent my 20s traveling and studying and doing some low-paid work. Now at 50 I earn $350k. I wouldn’t change a thing. History degree, by the way (where I learned not to focus unduly on the short term)…
LOL there are a lot more to life with 140k at 23 like traveling and experiencing the world.
Much harder with 60K unless you are a trust fund kid. Pay rent.
Anonymous
05/22/2024 09:30
Subject: What do liberal arts majors do?
I agree that a liberal arts major is a blessing, a privilege, and you can do anything you want with it.
Also, there’s a good article in the Atlantic recently about how a liberal arts major was very important to one persons relative during WWII. I felt like the article was a little boomer and greatest generation-y, but I could see the point.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/05/philip-shribman-liberal-arts-wwii/677836/
Also, there’s a good article in the Atlantic recently about how a liberal arts major was very important to one persons relative during WWII. I felt like the article was a little boomer and greatest generation-y, but I could see the point.
https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/archive/2024/05/philip-shribman-liberal-arts-wwii/677836/