Anonymous
05/20/2024 20:36
Subject: Switching teams etiquette
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The 10U group’s success is largely predicated on how long the kid has been swimming. A lot of 10U swimmers are highly ranked more because they have been swimming year round since they were 6 or 7 than anything else. You often see new names pop up in the 11-12 groups (especially for the girls since their biggest jump in motivational times and champs cuts is from 10U to 11-12, with the boys it’s from 11-12 to 13-14), and those are generally the kids that didn’t start year round swim until 9 or 10.
Many of those new names are kids who played (or currently play) other sports. Those other sports could have developed muscle and endurance beyond what the pool can do for a young swimmer.
Amen. Even in high school kids emerge. They were playing 3-5 sports growing up. They build great athleticism. When it comes time to special they are great all around athletes and are able to improve in swimming dramatically. They also have a much lower burnout risk. Take the 12 and under pvs champs results, and I’d wager 5/8 from each final will be a non-factor or out of swimming by high school.
You know there’s something called data that could actually prove (or disprove) your hunch
Anonymous
05/20/2024 20:15
Subject: Switching teams etiquette
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Look at the age 15-18 rankings for most of the events, easily accessed on swimmingrank - this always helps us understand where the top training groups may be. I would argue that there are many, many top training groups in the 12U age groups, but the nationally-ranked swimmers congregate only in a few clubs once they get to 15+.
Mens:
NCAP-Burke close-to QT, Olympic Trials: 100 Back - JT Schmid - best time, 55.89; QT, trials, 55.69
NCAP-West, close-to QT, Trials: 200 Breast - Lleyton Arnold - best time, 2:15.76; QT, 2:15.99
NCAP-Burke, not as close to QT, Olympic Trials: 100 Free - Josh Howat - best time, 50.50; QT, 49.99
NCAP-West, not as close to QT, Olympic Trials:
100 Breast - Lleyton Arnold - best time, 1:03.20; QT 1:02.19
Nobody is close in: 200 Free, 400 Free, 800 Free, 1500 Free, 100 Fly, 200 Fly
From PVS: 2 swimmers have qualified for 200 IM (Arioti, RMSC; Bermudez, NCAP-Burke, who PVS lists as qualifying for US Trials); 1 swimmer has qualified in 400 IM (Mackesy, RMSC)
+1, it’s pretty obvious that NCAP Burke (specifically the boys) and NCAP West are currently the top training sites for elite 15-18 swimmers. Gtown Prep has a very solid group of 13-14 year old swimmers, both girls and boys, so they will be in the mix over the next few years too I suspect.
Looks like JT Schmid of NCAP-Burke qualified for trials this weekend
Anonymous
05/16/2024 16:53
Subject: Switching teams etiquette
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The 10U group’s success is largely predicated on how long the kid has been swimming. A lot of 10U swimmers are highly ranked more because they have been swimming year round since they were 6 or 7 than anything else. You often see new names pop up in the 11-12 groups (especially for the girls since their biggest jump in motivational times and champs cuts is from 10U to 11-12, with the boys it’s from 11-12 to 13-14), and those are generally the kids that didn’t start year round swim until 9 or 10.
Many of those new names are kids who played (or currently play) other sports. Those other sports could have developed muscle and endurance beyond what the pool can do for a young swimmer.
Amen. Even in high school kids emerge. They were playing 3-5 sports growing up. They build great athleticism. When it comes time to special they are great all around athletes and are able to improve in swimming dramatically. They also have a much lower burnout risk. Take the 12 and under pvs champs results, and I’d wager 5/8 from each final will be a non-factor or out of swimming by high school.
We hear this all the time, and I was curious to see if this would turn out to be true. I scrolled meet mobile to find the 2017 JO meet and I did a random check of the top 8 for the 11-12 girls 100 breaststroke. Interestingly, 7/8 girls went on to swim in college. Then I did the 11-12 girls 200 IM, and similarly 7/8 girls went on to swim in college. There was only 1 swimmer that was top 8 in both events, so overall 14/15 girls went on to swim in college. I think the constant argument you see here that any good 12U swimmer will burn out or be a non-factor by HS is a bit overblown.
This is an empirical question that is easy to prove or disprove, so it shouldn't be that controversial. If anyone has the time and inclination you could look for the past 10 years or so and get a clear answer.
I certainly don't have the time to do that, but that small sampling is enough to show that posters routinely come here and post out of their @ss about things. It’s like a self-perpetuating myth on DCUM that the top swimmers in the 12U groups will burn out and/or just not be a factor anymore once they hit HS. I know some of that is coming from a place of posters hoping their kid who is not a fast 12U will all of a sudden overtake those kids when they hit HS, but it just isn’t accurate.
Anonymous
05/16/2024 15:46
Subject: Switching teams etiquette
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The 10U group’s success is largely predicated on how long the kid has been swimming. A lot of 10U swimmers are highly ranked more because they have been swimming year round since they were 6 or 7 than anything else. You often see new names pop up in the 11-12 groups (especially for the girls since their biggest jump in motivational times and champs cuts is from 10U to 11-12, with the boys it’s from 11-12 to 13-14), and those are generally the kids that didn’t start year round swim until 9 or 10.
Many of those new names are kids who played (or currently play) other sports. Those other sports could have developed muscle and endurance beyond what the pool can do for a young swimmer.
Amen. Even in high school kids emerge. They were playing 3-5 sports growing up. They build great athleticism. When it comes time to special they are great all around athletes and are able to improve in swimming dramatically. They also have a much lower burnout risk. Take the 12 and under pvs champs results, and I’d wager 5/8 from each final will be a non-factor or out of swimming by high school.
We hear this all the time, and I was curious to see if this would turn out to be true. I scrolled meet mobile to find the 2017 JO meet and I did a random check of the top 8 for the 11-12 girls 100 breaststroke. Interestingly, 7/8 girls went on to swim in college. Then I did the 11-12 girls 200 IM, and similarly 7/8 girls went on to swim in college. There was only 1 swimmer that was top 8 in both events, so overall 14/15 girls went on to swim in college. I think the constant argument you see here that any good 12U swimmer will burn out or be a non-factor by HS is a bit overblown.
This is an empirical question that is easy to prove or disprove, so it shouldn't be that controversial. If anyone has the time and inclination you could look for the past 10 years or so and get a clear answer.
Anonymous
05/16/2024 14:40
Subject: Switching teams etiquette
I now know where to find crazy swim parents. They're all here, going thru years old meets to see if those kids are still swimming and where. Deciphering what NCAP location is best. Posting places and times of PVS swimmers at NCSA.
And I feel like I probably know a couple of them based on their biases.
And I feel like I probably know a couple of them based on their biases.
Anonymous
05/16/2024 14:37
Subject: Switching teams etiquette
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The 10U group’s success is largely predicated on how long the kid has been swimming. A lot of 10U swimmers are highly ranked more because they have been swimming year round since they were 6 or 7 than anything else. You often see new names pop up in the 11-12 groups (especially for the girls since their biggest jump in motivational times and champs cuts is from 10U to 11-12, with the boys it’s from 11-12 to 13-14), and those are generally the kids that didn’t start year round swim until 9 or 10.
Many of those new names are kids who played (or currently play) other sports. Those other sports could have developed muscle and endurance beyond what the pool can do for a young swimmer.
Amen. Even in high school kids emerge. They were playing 3-5 sports growing up. They build great athleticism. When it comes time to special they are great all around athletes and are able to improve in swimming dramatically. They also have a much lower burnout risk. Take the 12 and under pvs champs results, and I’d wager 5/8 from each final will be a non-factor or out of swimming by high school.
We hear this all the time, and I was curious to see if this would turn out to be true. I scrolled meet mobile to find the 2017 JO meet and I did a random check of the top 8 for the 11-12 girls 100 breaststroke. Interestingly, 7/8 girls went on to swim in college. Then I did the 11-12 girls 200 IM, and similarly 7/8 girls went on to swim in college. There was only 1 swimmer that was top 8 in both events, so overall 14/15 girls went on to swim in college. I think the constant argument you see here that any good 12U swimmer will burn out or be a non-factor by HS is a bit overblown.
DP - the top 8 swimmers in an event at JOs is a very, very select group. That's far beyond "any good 12U swimmer" - it's like the best of the best. And yeah, I can see kids at that level mostly sticking with it, if they don't get injured.
That said, most really great swimmers aren't waiting until HS to specialize. That may be true for sports like football, baseball, etc., but it's not so much with swimming. I still think overly intense training programs for kids younger than 14 aren't great, either. Multiple things can be true.
Anonymous
05/16/2024 13:45
Subject: Switching teams etiquette
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The 10U group’s success is largely predicated on how long the kid has been swimming. A lot of 10U swimmers are highly ranked more because they have been swimming year round since they were 6 or 7 than anything else. You often see new names pop up in the 11-12 groups (especially for the girls since their biggest jump in motivational times and champs cuts is from 10U to 11-12, with the boys it’s from 11-12 to 13-14), and those are generally the kids that didn’t start year round swim until 9 or 10.
Many of those new names are kids who played (or currently play) other sports. Those other sports could have developed muscle and endurance beyond what the pool can do for a young swimmer.
Amen. Even in high school kids emerge. They were playing 3-5 sports growing up. They build great athleticism. When it comes time to special they are great all around athletes and are able to improve in swimming dramatically. They also have a much lower burnout risk. Take the 12 and under pvs champs results, and I’d wager 5/8 from each final will be a non-factor or out of swimming by high school.
We hear this all the time, and I was curious to see if this would turn out to be true. I scrolled meet mobile to find the 2017 JO meet and I did a random check of the top 8 for the 11-12 girls 100 breaststroke. Interestingly, 7/8 girls went on to swim in college. Then I did the 11-12 girls 200 IM, and similarly 7/8 girls went on to swim in college. There was only 1 swimmer that was top 8 in both events, so overall 14/15 girls went on to swim in college. I think the constant argument you see here that any good 12U swimmer will burn out or be a non-factor by HS is a bit overblown.
*That should be 13/15 went on to swim in college.
Anonymous
05/16/2024 13:42
Subject: Switching teams etiquette
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The 10U group’s success is largely predicated on how long the kid has been swimming. A lot of 10U swimmers are highly ranked more because they have been swimming year round since they were 6 or 7 than anything else. You often see new names pop up in the 11-12 groups (especially for the girls since their biggest jump in motivational times and champs cuts is from 10U to 11-12, with the boys it’s from 11-12 to 13-14), and those are generally the kids that didn’t start year round swim until 9 or 10.
Many of those new names are kids who played (or currently play) other sports. Those other sports could have developed muscle and endurance beyond what the pool can do for a young swimmer.
Amen. Even in high school kids emerge. They were playing 3-5 sports growing up. They build great athleticism. When it comes time to special they are great all around athletes and are able to improve in swimming dramatically. They also have a much lower burnout risk. Take the 12 and under pvs champs results, and I’d wager 5/8 from each final will be a non-factor or out of swimming by high school.
We hear this all the time, and I was curious to see if this would turn out to be true. I scrolled meet mobile to find the 2017 JO meet and I did a random check of the top 8 for the 11-12 girls 100 breaststroke. Interestingly, 7/8 girls went on to swim in college. Then I did the 11-12 girls 200 IM, and similarly 7/8 girls went on to swim in college. There was only 1 swimmer that was top 8 in both events, so overall 14/15 girls went on to swim in college. I think the constant argument you see here that any good 12U swimmer will burn out or be a non-factor by HS is a bit overblown.
Anonymous
05/16/2024 13:16
Subject: Switching teams etiquette
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I would send a note thanking them for past years and letting them know not coming back, especially if you'll see them. I probably would make my kid write a note, too.
No one cares. Just move on. They just want you money. Skip the note.
^ this- some coaches will get it, others will not.
Places like NCAP just need you to pay for the pool. They only really care about a few top, elite swimmers because it will help them get more private lessons. They really don’t care about you. Just leave.
I can only speak for NCAP-Burke Age Group coaches, but this could not be more WRONG. My son’s coach has even attended some of the girls’ theatrical and dance performances. She cares deeply for our kids, as do the other age group coaches. She is a fixture at A and B meets in the NVSL and CSL all summer, supporting the kids she coaches.
She coached my daughter several years ago, and was very nice. But not once did she watch my daughter swim an event. i was shocked. Multiple meets, not one coach watched her, no feedback given. At a different club now, feedback after almost every event. And I can see the coach watch. Hope that has changed. Not much technique work. My kid liked her and still does, but I was amazed .
Anonymous
05/16/2024 13:11
Subject: Switching teams etiquette
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:The 10U group’s success is largely predicated on how long the kid has been swimming. A lot of 10U swimmers are highly ranked more because they have been swimming year round since they were 6 or 7 than anything else. You often see new names pop up in the 11-12 groups (especially for the girls since their biggest jump in motivational times and champs cuts is from 10U to 11-12, with the boys it’s from 11-12 to 13-14), and those are generally the kids that didn’t start year round swim until 9 or 10.
Many of those new names are kids who played (or currently play) other sports. Those other sports could have developed muscle and endurance beyond what the pool can do for a young swimmer.
Amen. Even in high school kids emerge. They were playing 3-5 sports growing up. They build great athleticism. When it comes time to special they are great all around athletes and are able to improve in swimming dramatically. They also have a much lower burnout risk. Take the 12 and under pvs champs results, and I’d wager 5/8 from each final will be a non-factor or out of swimming by high school.
Anonymous
05/16/2024 11:19
Subject: Switching teams etiquette
Anonymous wrote:The 10U group’s success is largely predicated on how long the kid has been swimming. A lot of 10U swimmers are highly ranked more because they have been swimming year round since they were 6 or 7 than anything else. You often see new names pop up in the 11-12 groups (especially for the girls since their biggest jump in motivational times and champs cuts is from 10U to 11-12, with the boys it’s from 11-12 to 13-14), and those are generally the kids that didn’t start year round swim until 9 or 10.
Many of those new names are kids who played (or currently play) other sports. Those other sports could have developed muscle and endurance beyond what the pool can do for a young swimmer.
Anonymous
05/16/2024 09:03
Subject: Switching teams etiquette
The 10U group’s success is largely predicated on how long the kid has been swimming. A lot of 10U swimmers are highly ranked more because they have been swimming year round since they were 6 or 7 than anything else. You often see new names pop up in the 11-12 groups (especially for the girls since their biggest jump in motivational times and champs cuts is from 10U to 11-12, with the boys it’s from 11-12 to 13-14), and those are generally the kids that didn’t start year round swim until 9 or 10.
Anonymous
05/15/2024 23:48
Subject: Switching teams etiquette
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Look at the age 15-18 rankings for most of the events, easily accessed on swimmingrank - this always helps us understand where the top training groups may be. I would argue that there are many, many top training groups in the 12U age groups, but the nationally-ranked swimmers congregate only in a few clubs once they get to 15+.
Mens:
NCAP-Burke close-to QT, Olympic Trials: 100 Back - JT Schmid - best time, 55.89; QT, trials, 55.69
NCAP-West, close-to QT, Trials: 200 Breast - Lleyton Arnold - best time, 2:15.76; QT, 2:15.99
NCAP-Burke, not as close to QT, Olympic Trials: 100 Free - Josh Howat - best time, 50.50; QT, 49.99
NCAP-West, not as close to QT, Olympic Trials:
100 Breast - Lleyton Arnold - best time, 1:03.20; QT 1:02.19
Nobody is close in: 200 Free, 400 Free, 800 Free, 1500 Free, 100 Fly, 200 Fly
From PVS: 2 swimmers have qualified for 200 IM (Arioti, RMSC; Bermudez, NCAP-Burke, who PVS lists as qualifying for US Trials); 1 swimmer has qualified in 400 IM (Mackesy, RMSC)
+1, it’s pretty obvious that NCAP Burke (specifically the boys) and NCAP West are currently the top training sites for elite 15-18 swimmers. Gtown Prep has a very solid group of 13-14 year old swimmers, both girls and boys, so they will be in the mix over the next few years too I suspect.
Tyson’s has a strong group of 13-14 girls too.
I am super impressed with York’s 10U girls and NCAP-West bottom to top. York especially seems to have the secret sauce for the 10U group this year. I don’t know enough about the RMSC sites, but RMSC has loads of talent in the 10U girls. We are all so lucky to have such excellent options in VA and MD.
Anonymous
05/15/2024 20:11
Subject: Switching teams etiquette
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Look at the age 15-18 rankings for most of the events, easily accessed on swimmingrank - this always helps us understand where the top training groups may be. I would argue that there are many, many top training groups in the 12U age groups, but the nationally-ranked swimmers congregate only in a few clubs once they get to 15+.
Mens:
NCAP-Burke close-to QT, Olympic Trials: 100 Back - JT Schmid - best time, 55.89; QT, trials, 55.69
NCAP-West, close-to QT, Trials: 200 Breast - Lleyton Arnold - best time, 2:15.76; QT, 2:15.99
NCAP-Burke, not as close to QT, Olympic Trials: 100 Free - Josh Howat - best time, 50.50; QT, 49.99
NCAP-West, not as close to QT, Olympic Trials:
100 Breast - Lleyton Arnold - best time, 1:03.20; QT 1:02.19
Nobody is close in: 200 Free, 400 Free, 800 Free, 1500 Free, 100 Fly, 200 Fly
From PVS: 2 swimmers have qualified for 200 IM (Arioti, RMSC; Bermudez, NCAP-Burke, who PVS lists as qualifying for US Trials); 1 swimmer has qualified in 400 IM (Mackesy, RMSC)
+1, it’s pretty obvious that NCAP Burke (specifically the boys) and NCAP West are currently the top training sites for elite 15-18 swimmers. Gtown Prep has a very solid group of 13-14 year old swimmers, both girls and boys, so they will be in the mix over the next few years too I suspect.
Tyson’s has a strong group of 13-14 girls too.
Anonymous
05/15/2024 13:30
Subject: Switching teams etiquette
Anonymous wrote:Look at the age 15-18 rankings for most of the events, easily accessed on swimmingrank - this always helps us understand where the top training groups may be. I would argue that there are many, many top training groups in the 12U age groups, but the nationally-ranked swimmers congregate only in a few clubs once they get to 15+.
Mens:
NCAP-Burke close-to QT, Olympic Trials: 100 Back - JT Schmid - best time, 55.89; QT, trials, 55.69
NCAP-West, close-to QT, Trials: 200 Breast - Lleyton Arnold - best time, 2:15.76; QT, 2:15.99
NCAP-Burke, not as close to QT, Olympic Trials: 100 Free - Josh Howat - best time, 50.50; QT, 49.99
NCAP-West, not as close to QT, Olympic Trials:
100 Breast - Lleyton Arnold - best time, 1:03.20; QT 1:02.19
Nobody is close in: 200 Free, 400 Free, 800 Free, 1500 Free, 100 Fly, 200 Fly
From PVS: 2 swimmers have qualified for 200 IM (Arioti, RMSC; Bermudez, NCAP-Burke, who PVS lists as qualifying for US Trials); 1 swimmer has qualified in 400 IM (Mackesy, RMSC)
+1, it’s pretty obvious that NCAP Burke (specifically the boys) and NCAP West are currently the top training sites for elite 15-18 swimmers. Gtown Prep has a very solid group of 13-14 year old swimmers, both girls and boys, so they will be in the mix over the next few years too I suspect.