Anonymous
02/06/2024 08:11
Subject: Re:Mike Rowe trashes college degrees, says Harvard grads are taking their 'degrees off the wall'
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:He’s absolutely right. At this point most people are just paying for a piece of paper, not an education.
I beg to differ. It depends on what you study. Communications, maybe. Engineering, computer science, math, nursing....I don't think so.
On Nursing. I'm in RN who works with RNs with 2 year Associates degrees and 4 year Bachelors degrees. There's no difference in their nursing skills. That bachelors is only needed to go on into management/administration.
Anonymous
02/06/2024 07:10
Subject: Re:Mike Rowe trashes college degrees, says Harvard grads are taking their 'degrees off the wall'
Anonymous wrote:He’s absolutely right. At this point most people are just paying for a piece of paper, not an education.
+1. It's a certificate for entry into the white collar world.
Anonymous
02/06/2024 01:41
Subject: Re:Mike Rowe trashes college degrees, says Harvard grads are taking their 'degrees off the wall'
Skilled tradespeople are very valuable--we need far more of them in our society. But most people who don't go to college also can't become successful skilled tradespeople because it requires A LOT of hard work and a decent amount of luck.
The hard work is self-explanatory. But luck plays a big role. To succeed at most skilled trades you need:
(1) to be healthy enough to do a job with a lot of movement and physical labor;
(2) to not suffer a career-ending injury (unfortunately, these injuries are very common--as compared to white collar workers, skilled tradespeople must pay much higher rates for disability insurance, if they can qualify at all, because insurance companies assess them to be much higher risks);
(3) to not have the expensive collection of tools necessary to your livelihood stolen or rendered unusable;
(4) to find experienced and ethical skilled tradespeople from whom to learn; and
(5) to find hardworking and ethical apprentices/employees with whom to work.
A lot can go wrong. E.g., a hand, back, or knee injury can end a career. The reason to go to college is that playing the odds, you stand a better chance at building a comfortable life when your work depends on your brain rather than your body (assuming you don't drown yourself in debt on the way).
The hard work is self-explanatory. But luck plays a big role. To succeed at most skilled trades you need:
(1) to be healthy enough to do a job with a lot of movement and physical labor;
(2) to not suffer a career-ending injury (unfortunately, these injuries are very common--as compared to white collar workers, skilled tradespeople must pay much higher rates for disability insurance, if they can qualify at all, because insurance companies assess them to be much higher risks);
(3) to not have the expensive collection of tools necessary to your livelihood stolen or rendered unusable;
(4) to find experienced and ethical skilled tradespeople from whom to learn; and
(5) to find hardworking and ethical apprentices/employees with whom to work.
A lot can go wrong. E.g., a hand, back, or knee injury can end a career. The reason to go to college is that playing the odds, you stand a better chance at building a comfortable life when your work depends on your brain rather than your body (assuming you don't drown yourself in debt on the way).
Anonymous
02/06/2024 00:11
Subject: Mike Rowe trashes college degrees, says Harvard grads are taking their 'degrees off the wall'
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Mike Rowe is a Koch Brothers funded grifter-actor.
Notice that he never extols the benefits of a union for tradesmen, which is how they have typically made good money & ensured on the job safety.
Did you fail to see who is supporting the Tear the Paper Ceiling initiative?
- the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation (along with a dozen or more left-leaning groups).
You cannot dismiss this trend as right wing.
+1. The level of political stupidity and bullying on this site is just amazing. Unfortunately, we waste time wading through such useless comments to actually learn something useful
Anonymous
02/05/2024 23:41
Subject: Mike Rowe trashes college degrees, says Harvard grads are taking their 'degrees off the wall'
Anonymous wrote:Mike Rowe is a Koch Brothers funded grifter-actor.
Notice that he never extols the benefits of a union for tradesmen, which is how they have typically made good money & ensured on the job safety.
Did you fail to see who is supporting the Tear the Paper Ceiling initiative?
- the Bill and Melinda Gates foundation (along with a dozen or more left-leaning groups).
You cannot dismiss this trend as right wing.
Anonymous
02/05/2024 19:59
Subject: Mike Rowe trashes college degrees, says Harvard grads are taking their 'degrees off the wall'
Mike Rowe is a Koch Brothers funded grifter-actor.
Notice that he never extols the benefits of a union for tradesmen, which is how they have typically made good money & ensured on the job safety.
Notice that he never extols the benefits of a union for tradesmen, which is how they have typically made good money & ensured on the job safety.
Anonymous
02/05/2024 19:36
Subject: Re:Mike Rowe trashes college degrees, says Harvard grads are taking their 'degrees off the wall'
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Fact still remains that majority of jobs require a college degree. Even EA/"secretary" positions now often list it as a requirement for the job, when 20+ years ago that was not a thing.
So unless your kid is interested in the Trades, a college degree is the best path forward to a good paying career. And even if you go into the trades, a 2 year business degree can be helpful because I don't know many 45yo+ working in the trades who don't wish they could be "running the business"/not be doing the physical labor for 8+ hours a day. Those jobs can wear on your body as you age. AA in business just might set you up to be managing/running the business.
So the key is getting the degree at an affordable rate. That means with minimal debt, especially if you know the first 5 years with your degree will be "lower paying" and for some majors will never go "high pay" unless you switch careers (think social work, education and even things like PT---a 3 year Doctorate is required yet you will max out at $100K in most areas, except VHCOL, yet many spend $200K to get the degree, so if you plan that route, undergrad needs to be Debt free or close to it). If you want to be a teacher, great, we need awesome teachers. But don't go into major debt to get your degree. Figure out where you want to teach, go to school in that state and do your student teaching there and get certified in that state. Do it as cheaply as you can at a decent school---there are many in most states that are great and affordable. Life will be much easier when your starting salary is $45K if you don't have $80K+ in student loans hanging over your head.
I am not agreeing with Mike Rowe...but, there are tons of headlines of companies no longer caring about a degree vs. showing they are qualified for the job. You can decide you don't believe Deloitte, Google, etc....but publicly they are claiming a 4-year degree is no longer required.
Here are several recent articles:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/college-degree-job-requirement/
https://www.intelligent.com/nearly-half-of-companies-plan-to-eliminate-bachelors-degree-requirements-in-2024/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/consumer/article-12806053/companies-ax-college-bachelors-degree-requirements-walmart.html
Well we're in a labor shortage now. Who do you think they will hire when the tables turn back and unemployment rates rise? The high school graduate or the college graduate?
I don’t actually think they will care because it is easy to administer online tests and what not to cull through the first cut. If you know how to do the job, they don’t care how/why you know.
I honestly don’t think companies place much value in the holistic benefits of a college degree anymore.
True. There is already a movement to:
Tear the Paper Ceiling
https://www.tearthepaperceiling.org
From that website:
“ Workers with experience, skills, and diverse perspectives – held back by a silent limitation.
It’s time to tear the paper ceiling and see the world beyond it.
I pledge to shatter stereotypes and misconceptions and to see people for all of their experiences, skills, and diverse perspectives.
I pledge to recognize the untapped potential of the 70+ million American workers who are STARs – Skilled Through Alternative Routes – so they can flourish.
I pledge to tear the paper ceiling, to see the world beyond it, and to let STARs shine.”
Anonymous
02/05/2024 19:35
Subject: Re:Mike Rowe trashes college degrees, says Harvard grads are taking their 'degrees off the wall'
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Fact still remains that majority of jobs require a college degree. Even EA/"secretary" positions now often list it as a requirement for the job, when 20+ years ago that was not a thing.
So unless your kid is interested in the Trades, a college degree is the best path forward to a good paying career. And even if you go into the trades, a 2 year business degree can be helpful because I don't know many 45yo+ working in the trades who don't wish they could be "running the business"/not be doing the physical labor for 8+ hours a day. Those jobs can wear on your body as you age. AA in business just might set you up to be managing/running the business.
So the key is getting the degree at an affordable rate. That means with minimal debt, especially if you know the first 5 years with your degree will be "lower paying" and for some majors will never go "high pay" unless you switch careers (think social work, education and even things like PT---a 3 year Doctorate is required yet you will max out at $100K in most areas, except VHCOL, yet many spend $200K to get the degree, so if you plan that route, undergrad needs to be Debt free or close to it). If you want to be a teacher, great, we need awesome teachers. But don't go into major debt to get your degree. Figure out where you want to teach, go to school in that state and do your student teaching there and get certified in that state. Do it as cheaply as you can at a decent school---there are many in most states that are great and affordable. Life will be much easier when your starting salary is $45K if you don't have $80K+ in student loans hanging over your head.
I am not agreeing with Mike Rowe...but, there are tons of headlines of companies no longer caring about a degree vs. showing they are qualified for the job. You can decide you don't believe Deloitte, Google, etc....but publicly they are claiming a 4-year degree is no longer required.
Here are several recent articles:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/college-degree-job-requirement/
https://www.intelligent.com/nearly-half-of-companies-plan-to-eliminate-bachelors-degree-requirements-in-2024/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/consumer/article-12806053/companies-ax-college-bachelors-degree-requirements-walmart.html
Well we're in a labor shortage now. Who do you think they will hire when the tables turn back and unemployment rates rise? The high school graduate or the college graduate?
I don’t actually think they will care because it is easy to administer online tests and what not to cull through the first cut. If you know how to do the job, they don’t care how/why you know.
I honestly don’t think companies place much value in the holistic benefits of a college degree anymore.
True. There is already a movement to:
Tear the Paper Ceiling
https://www.tearthepaperceiling.org
Anonymous
02/05/2024 19:33
Subject: Re:Mike Rowe trashes college degrees, says Harvard grads are taking their 'degrees off the wall'
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Fact still remains that majority of jobs require a college degree. Even EA/"secretary" positions now often list it as a requirement for the job, when 20+ years ago that was not a thing.
So unless your kid is interested in the Trades, a college degree is the best path forward to a good paying career. And even if you go into the trades, a 2 year business degree can be helpful because I don't know many 45yo+ working in the trades who don't wish they could be "running the business"/not be doing the physical labor for 8+ hours a day. Those jobs can wear on your body as you age. AA in business just might set you up to be managing/running the business.
So the key is getting the degree at an affordable rate. That means with minimal debt, especially if you know the first 5 years with your degree will be "lower paying" and for some majors will never go "high pay" unless you switch careers (think social work, education and even things like PT---a 3 year Doctorate is required yet you will max out at $100K in most areas, except VHCOL, yet many spend $200K to get the degree, so if you plan that route, undergrad needs to be Debt free or close to it). If you want to be a teacher, great, we need awesome teachers. But don't go into major debt to get your degree. Figure out where you want to teach, go to school in that state and do your student teaching there and get certified in that state. Do it as cheaply as you can at a decent school---there are many in most states that are great and affordable. Life will be much easier when your starting salary is $45K if you don't have $80K+ in student loans hanging over your head.
I am not agreeing with Mike Rowe...but, there are tons of headlines of companies no longer caring about a degree vs. showing they are qualified for the job. You can decide you don't believe Deloitte, Google, etc....but publicly they are claiming a 4-year degree is no longer required.
Here are several recent articles:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/college-degree-job-requirement/
https://www.intelligent.com/nearly-half-of-companies-plan-to-eliminate-bachelors-degree-requirements-in-2024/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/consumer/article-12806053/companies-ax-college-bachelors-degree-requirements-walmart.html
Well we're in a labor shortage now. Who do you think they will hire when the tables turn back and unemployment rates rise? The high school graduate or the college graduate?
I don’t actually think they will care because it is easy to administer online tests and what not to cull through the first cut. If you know how to do the job, they don’t care how/why you know.
I honestly don’t think companies place much value in the holistic benefits of a college degree anymore.
True. There is already a movement to:
Tear the Paper Ceiling
Anonymous
02/04/2024 10:55
Subject: Re:Mike Rowe trashes college degrees, says Harvard grads are taking their 'degrees off the wall'
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:What a bunch of BS. Sure, you don’t need to go to college to be a millionaire, but by any other measure a degree from a good to great college produces the knowledge that has built the entire industrial and digital economy. Mr. Rowe should count his lucky stars that he lives in a society where smart and curious people want to learn and produce real advances in society, not just start the next landscape company or pizza chain. Not that the latter are inferior choices, but they are not the source of technological advancement.
Get real. The average college graduate is going to be a worker bee, doing what they’re told for 40 hours a week, often in a job which bears little to no resemblance to their field of study. So neither will they be the source of technological advancement. (Not to mention the implication that ALL technological advancement is inherently good… I strongly disagree, but that is an entirely separate conversation.)
NP. And the average non college grad is going to likely work more hours for less pay.
Perhaps. But they presumably will also not whine for a decade+ about being saddled with “crippling” debt that they can’t (or don’t want to) pay.
Anonymous
02/04/2024 10:51
Subject: Mike Rowe trashes college degrees, says Harvard grads are taking their 'degrees off the wall'
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Who hangs their degree on the wall? I have no idea where my degrees are. Once every five years or so I clean thr basement and find one. My husband and I have 5 degrees between us, three of them Ivy, and none are on the walls. Nor do we talk about them. You wouldn’t know unless you read out online bios that our employer makes us put up.
The only people who I know where they went to college are the ones who went to big basketball or football schools, because they won’t shut up about the alma maters teams. Everyone knows a Duke/ or UNC grad around March madness time!
My, oh my. How superior you are!
DH and I have five degrees between us and three diplomas of five are on the wall in our office in our basement. Not sure what on earth you think is so awful about that.
My husband and I went to undergrad at a school DCUM scoffs at (I was told here my degree isn’t worth the paper it’s written on) and we have ours hanging up in our hallway. Along with his two masters and my medical degree. I guess we suck.
My husband and I have five degrees between us, which we hang, including one from a Maryland state school posters here scoff at. We have an HHI of $300k - the notion that only certain schools will get you to a certain SES is so ridiculous.
Anonymous
02/04/2024 10:34
Subject: Mike Rowe trashes college degrees, says Harvard grads are taking their 'degrees off the wall'
The further the university ststems sway into the test optional mindset, the less credible those degrees become.
Anonymous
02/04/2024 10:29
Subject: Mike Rowe trashes college degrees, says Harvard grads are taking their 'degrees off the wall'
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Yeah, Mike Rowe is such a a blue collar worker; People, he is a presenter / actor playing a blue collar worker.
From Maryland and he "graduated from Overlea High School in 1980,[1]: 28 where he excelled in theater and singing.[7] He then studied at Essex Community College.[7] In 1985, he graduated from Towson University[8][1]: 28 with a degree in communication studies.[9]"
From Wikipedia
I think the trades are great, and you can make a lot of money and have a good life if you are talented in them.
I think his wiki is incorrect. I remember reading a couple years ago he has a degree in theater or drama.
He was an opera singer.
Anonymous
02/04/2024 10:27
Subject: Mike Rowe trashes college degrees, says Harvard grads are taking their 'degrees off the wall'
Anonymous wrote:This is such BS. Most public figures who tell their followers that you don’t need college send their own kids to expensive colleges.
The trick is finding AFFORDABLE college. How disingenuous.
Mike Rowe is correct.
He also puts his money where his moyth is by running a very extensive scholarship and mentorship program for trades school.
Anonymous
02/04/2024 09:31
Subject: Re:Mike Rowe trashes college degrees, says Harvard grads are taking their 'degrees off the wall'
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Fact still remains that majority of jobs require a college degree. Even EA/"secretary" positions now often list it as a requirement for the job, when 20+ years ago that was not a thing.
So unless your kid is interested in the Trades, a college degree is the best path forward to a good paying career. And even if you go into the trades, a 2 year business degree can be helpful because I don't know many 45yo+ working in the trades who don't wish they could be "running the business"/not be doing the physical labor for 8+ hours a day. Those jobs can wear on your body as you age. AA in business just might set you up to be managing/running the business.
So the key is getting the degree at an affordable rate. That means with minimal debt, especially if you know the first 5 years with your degree will be "lower paying" and for some majors will never go "high pay" unless you switch careers (think social work, education and even things like PT---a 3 year Doctorate is required yet you will max out at $100K in most areas, except VHCOL, yet many spend $200K to get the degree, so if you plan that route, undergrad needs to be Debt free or close to it). If you want to be a teacher, great, we need awesome teachers. But don't go into major debt to get your degree. Figure out where you want to teach, go to school in that state and do your student teaching there and get certified in that state. Do it as cheaply as you can at a decent school---there are many in most states that are great and affordable. Life will be much easier when your starting salary is $45K if you don't have $80K+ in student loans hanging over your head.
I am not agreeing with Mike Rowe...but, there are tons of headlines of companies no longer caring about a degree vs. showing they are qualified for the job. You can decide you don't believe Deloitte, Google, etc....but publicly they are claiming a 4-year degree is no longer required.
Here are several recent articles:
https://www.cbsnews.com/news/college-degree-job-requirement/
https://www.intelligent.com/nearly-half-of-companies-plan-to-eliminate-bachelors-degree-requirements-in-2024/
https://www.dailymail.co.uk/yourmoney/consumer/article-12806053/companies-ax-college-bachelors-degree-requirements-walmart.html
Well we're in a labor shortage now. Who do you think they will hire when the tables turn back and unemployment rates rise? The high school graduate or the college graduate?
I don’t actually think they will care because it is easy to administer online tests and what not to cull through the first cut. If you know how to do the job, they don’t care how/why you know.
I honestly don’t think companies place much value in the holistic benefits of a college degree anymore.