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Anonymous wrote:You leave at X time, and if she's not in the car you leave without her. Do you have to go straight to work right after dropping them off?
How far is school? Is it walkable-meaning a safe walk with sidewalks? If it's less than five miles away with sidewalks, that's walkable. If it's more than five miles and/or there's no sidewalks, then you drive her after you get back--but no excuse notes. She takes the unexcused tardy.
At my kid's school, three tardies= detention.

Five miles? Get real.

Five miles is real. Middle schoolers are more than capable of walking five miles.

It is patently absurd to suggest that a MS aged girl walk 5 miles alone to school.

It's not. It's appropriate natural consequences.

To each their own. I would not send my 11 year old DD on a 5 mile trek alone to school because if something ever happened to her I would not be able to live with myself.

DP and I get it. This is one of the hardest parts about parenting. But you really need to white knuckle through some things for the good of your kid.

You do you, but I am certainly not white knuckling through my 11 year old DD walking 5 miles by herself to school. I see it as a safety issue, you may not see it that way but I do.

Okay. It’s clearly a potential safety issue, but it’s an unlikely safety issue. Fostering independence and confidence in her own abilities matters. You’re not doing your daughter any favors. But yeah, you do you.

What's your plan if she decides to not walk to school? To wander off somewhere, go back home, go shoplifting for lunch, go hangout with the kids who deal fentanyl and carjack? "Natural consequences"?

I'm the pp that said she should walk to school. The parent walks WITH her. The point is not to have her do dangerous things on her own. The point is for her to deal with the consequences.

GMAFB, sure you meant you would walk the 2 hours with your kid. Then what since you don’t have a car, call an Uber to get home? There is zero chance this is what you meant, you’re backtracking because people are calling out the absurdity of an 11 year old girl being made to walk 5 miles alone to school.

No, I wouldn't uber. I'd walk/run the 5 miles back. It is 100% chance that is what I meant. Anyone in reasonable shape can walk ten miles in a day--but if OP had to get back home quickly for work, then it's understandable that she would Uber instead.

For what it's worth, everyone seems so hung up on "five miles" but I said UP TO five miles. OP never answered how far her kids' school is.

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Anonymous wrote:You leave at X time, and if she's not in the car you leave without her. Do you have to go straight to work right after dropping them off?
How far is school? Is it walkable-meaning a safe walk with sidewalks? If it's less than five miles away with sidewalks, that's walkable. If it's more than five miles and/or there's no sidewalks, then you drive her after you get back--but no excuse notes. She takes the unexcused tardy.
At my kid's school, three tardies= detention.

Five miles? Get real.

Five miles is real. Middle schoolers are more than capable of walking five miles.

It is patently absurd to suggest that a MS aged girl walk 5 miles alone to school.

It's not. It's appropriate natural consequences.

To each their own. I would not send my 11 year old DD on a 5 mile trek alone to school because if something ever happened to her I would not be able to live with myself.

DP and I get it. This is one of the hardest parts about parenting. But you really need to white knuckle through some things for the good of your kid.

You do you, but I am certainly not white knuckling through my 11 year old DD walking 5 miles by herself to school. I see it as a safety issue, you may not see it that way but I do.

Okay. It’s clearly a potential safety issue, but it’s an unlikely safety issue. Fostering independence and confidence in her own abilities matters. You’re not doing your daughter any favors. But yeah, you do you.

NP. STFU. No way you would let your 11 or 12 yo walk 5 mi. I call BS on that. And none of what you note is fostered by a punitive 5 mile -roughly 2 hour- walk to school. You're not doing any favors either, creating safety issues and resentment. But, as you glibly note, you do you.

I'm not the pp you quoted, but I'm the pp that first said that up to 5 miles with sidewalks is walkable.
"Punative 5 mile?" You do realize that many people, yes-even 11 year olds, run 10ks (6.2 miles) for fun? Five miles is not punative.

My 11 year old DD is a runner and an all around excellent athlete, that has jack to do with having her walk 5 miles to school alone. When she runs she does not go alone, and she is with her team at XC practice. And spare me the “but I was planning to walk it with her”, no you weren’t.

Anonymous wrote:I know posts have a way to go off tangent but good grief. OP asked a question and it’s turned into a debate about whether it’s ok to let an 11yo walk 5 miles to school or not….. nothing to do with what OP asked ( not OP)

OP asked what could be done, and that is the answer--if she doesn't get up in time for the bus, she walks. No tangent. It's a direct response to the question.

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Anonymous wrote:You leave at X time, and if she's not in the car you leave without her. Do you have to go straight to work right after dropping them off?
How far is school? Is it walkable-meaning a safe walk with sidewalks? If it's less than five miles away with sidewalks, that's walkable. If it's more than five miles and/or there's no sidewalks, then you drive her after you get back--but no excuse notes. She takes the unexcused tardy.
At my kid's school, three tardies= detention.

Five miles? Get real.

Five miles is real. Middle schoolers are more than capable of walking five miles.

It is patently absurd to suggest that a MS aged girl walk 5 miles alone to school.

It's not. It's appropriate natural consequences.

To each their own. I would not send my 11 year old DD on a 5 mile trek alone to school because if something ever happened to her I would not be able to live with myself.

DP and I get it. This is one of the hardest parts about parenting. But you really need to white knuckle through some things for the good of your kid.

You do you, but I am certainly not white knuckling through my 11 year old DD walking 5 miles by herself to school. I see it as a safety issue, you may not see it that way but I do.

Okay. It’s clearly a potential safety issue, but it’s an unlikely safety issue. Fostering independence and confidence in her own abilities matters. You’re not doing your daughter any favors. But yeah, you do you.

NP. STFU. No way you would let your 11 or 12 yo walk 5 mi. I call BS on that. And none of what you note is fostered by a punitive 5 mile -roughly 2 hour- walk to school. You're not doing any favors either, creating safety issues and resentment. But, as you glibly note, you do you.

I'm not the pp you quoted, but I'm the pp that first said that up to 5 miles with sidewalks is walkable.
"Punative 5 mile?" You do realize that many people, yes-even 11 year olds, run 10ks (6.2 miles) for fun? Five miles is not punative.

A 5 mi jog for a runner or kid in XC is different than a kid (esp nonrunner) walking 5 miles to school for a 730 start time. THe former is a choice and fun. The latter is not. If you don't see that, there is no point in even having a discussion with you.

And it's punitive.

This is very hard because it’s not about motivation. It’s about biology. Her circadian rhythm is incompatible with her schedule. You can hack it through early sunlight exposure, blue blockers, eating her last meal early, etc. But it takes a lot of empathy and cooperation.

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Anonymous wrote:You leave at X time, and if she's not in the car you leave without her. Do you have to go straight to work right after dropping them off?
How far is school? Is it walkable-meaning a safe walk with sidewalks? If it's less than five miles away with sidewalks, that's walkable. If it's more than five miles and/or there's no sidewalks, then you drive her after you get back--but no excuse notes. She takes the unexcused tardy.
At my kid's school, three tardies= detention.

Five miles? Get real.

Five miles is real. Middle schoolers are more than capable of walking five miles.

It is patently absurd to suggest that a MS aged girl walk 5 miles alone to school.

It's not. It's appropriate natural consequences.

To each their own. I would not send my 11 year old DD on a 5 mile trek alone to school because if something ever happened to her I would not be able to live with myself.

DP and I get it. This is one of the hardest parts about parenting. But you really need to white knuckle through some things for the good of your kid.

You do you, but I am certainly not white knuckling through my 11 year old DD walking 5 miles by herself to school. I see it as a safety issue, you may not see it that way but I do.

Okay. It’s clearly a potential safety issue, but it’s an unlikely safety issue. Fostering independence and confidence in her own abilities matters. You’re not doing your daughter any favors. But yeah, you do you.

What's your plan if she decides to not walk to school? To wander off somewhere, go back home, go shoplifting for lunch, go hangout with the kids who deal fentanyl and carjack? "Natural consequences"?

I'm the pp that said she should walk to school. The parent walks WITH her. The point is not to have her do dangerous things on her own. The point is for her to deal with the consequences.

GMAFB, sure you meant you would walk the 2 hours with your kid. Then what since you don’t have a car, call an Uber to get home? There is zero chance this is what you meant, you’re backtracking because people are calling out the absurdity of an 11 year old girl being made to walk 5 miles alone to school.

I know posts have a way to go off tangent but good grief. OP asked a question and it’s turned into a debate about whether it’s ok to let an 11yo walk 5 miles to school or not….. nothing to do with what OP asked ( not OP)

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Anonymous wrote:You leave at X time, and if she's not in the car you leave without her. Do you have to go straight to work right after dropping them off?
How far is school? Is it walkable-meaning a safe walk with sidewalks? If it's less than five miles away with sidewalks, that's walkable. If it's more than five miles and/or there's no sidewalks, then you drive her after you get back--but no excuse notes. She takes the unexcused tardy.
At my kid's school, three tardies= detention.

Five miles? Get real.

Five miles is real. Middle schoolers are more than capable of walking five miles.

It is patently absurd to suggest that a MS aged girl walk 5 miles alone to school.

It's not. It's appropriate natural consequences.

To each their own. I would not send my 11 year old DD on a 5 mile trek alone to school because if something ever happened to her I would not be able to live with myself.

DP and I get it. This is one of the hardest parts about parenting. But you really need to white knuckle through some things for the good of your kid.

You do you, but I am certainly not white knuckling through my 11 year old DD walking 5 miles by herself to school. I see it as a safety issue, you may not see it that way but I do.

Okay. It’s clearly a potential safety issue, but it’s an unlikely safety issue. Fostering independence and confidence in her own abilities matters. You’re not doing your daughter any favors. But yeah, you do you.

NP. STFU. No way you would let your 11 or 12 yo walk 5 mi. I call BS on that. And none of what you note is fostered by a punitive 5 mile -roughly 2 hour- walk to school. You're not doing any favors either, creating safety issues and resentment. But, as you glibly note, you do you.

I'm not the pp you quoted, but I'm the pp that first said that up to 5 miles with sidewalks is walkable.
"Punative 5 mile?" You do realize that many people, yes-even 11 year olds, run 10ks (6.2 miles) for fun? Five miles is not punative.

I’m the person they’re responding to. They seemed to have missed that my apparent glib “you do you” was a direct quote from the person I responded to, but it’s not surprising given the rest if their response.

I’m one of those bad moms that lets (makes to some people I guess) my kids (starting at age 10) take public transportation by themselves to get where they need to go. If they leave late and miss the bus or train, then they’re walking (more likely running).

But of course as you have pointed out multiple times to these folks, I allowed (forced really because not being chauffeured around like royalty is punitive apparently) this because I was confident that IT WAS SAFE.

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Anonymous wrote:You leave at X time, and if she's not in the car you leave without her. Do you have to go straight to work right after dropping them off?
How far is school? Is it walkable-meaning a safe walk with sidewalks? If it's less than five miles away with sidewalks, that's walkable. If it's more than five miles and/or there's no sidewalks, then you drive her after you get back--but no excuse notes. She takes the unexcused tardy.
At my kid's school, three tardies= detention.

Five miles? Get real.

Five miles is real. Middle schoolers are more than capable of walking five miles.

It is patently absurd to suggest that a MS aged girl walk 5 miles alone to school.

It's not. It's appropriate natural consequences.

To each their own. I would not send my 11 year old DD on a 5 mile trek alone to school because if something ever happened to her I would not be able to live with myself.

DP and I get it. This is one of the hardest parts about parenting. But you really need to white knuckle through some things for the good of your kid.

You do you, but I am certainly not white knuckling through my 11 year old DD walking 5 miles by herself to school. I see it as a safety issue, you may not see it that way but I do.

Okay. It’s clearly a potential safety issue, but it’s an unlikely safety issue. Fostering independence and confidence in her own abilities matters. You’re not doing your daughter any favors. But yeah, you do you.

NP. STFU. No way you would let your 11 or 12 yo walk 5 mi. I call BS on that. And none of what you note is fostered by a punitive 5 mile -roughly 2 hour- walk to school. You're not doing any favors either, creating safety issues and resentment. But, as you glibly note, you do you.

I'm not the pp you quoted, but I'm the pp that first said that up to 5 miles with sidewalks is walkable.
"Punative 5 mile?" You do realize that many people, yes-even 11 year olds, run 10ks (6.2 miles) for fun? Five miles is not punative.

What is it like OUTSIDE of the wake-up issues?

If there are issues outside of waking up then you need a medical evaluation. To me, ADD/ADHD would mean there is already an existing condition, and you need to do more work to determine if there are co-existing conditions such as depression, thyroid issues, iron, magnesium, sleep apnea, etc.

If its just waking up then you need to work on sleep habits. Get blue light blockers for evening use. Get rid of all overhead lighting. Limit screens 1 hour before bedtime. Have her take multivitamin with folate plus vit D.

Has she started her period? If yes, is it worse during certain phases of her cycle? If so, she may need nutritional support during certain phases.

I was like this from basically 10/11 through my 30s until I got thyroid treatment. Consequences did not work for me because I literally could not get up and . I would fall asleep showering. In class. In the middle of the day. Only reason I got through college was because of stimulants. I would roll over and take Vyvanse at 7am and it would wake me up within 45-75 minutes with my heart rushing. Thats what I did to function in this world while being called lazy and dramatic. Ill add that I was evaluated for thyroid issues, but I apparently didn't meet the threshold to treatment even with all of the symptoms. It wasnt "high" enough but my active thyroid is extremely low and an endo started treating me, which was life-changing. My vit D is also extremely low and almost impossible to increase without IUs out the wahoo.

Anonymous wrote:Jesus, this is all so mean and punitive. Do you all actually hate your kids? Or just talk tough when it is someone else's?

OP, are there issues at school? Is she getting bullied or excluded? We went through this with one DD in 5th grade and it turned out there were MAJOR social issues, including really staggeringly bad bullying (the kind you read about after a kid commits suicide and think, that can't be real, why didn't anyone intervene?).

Agree with others who suggest a medical workup. Same DD had a vitamin D deficiency that required use of a sunlamp.

Also, middle school start times are EARLY. Some kids are just not morning people, no matter how hard they try. Add puberty (which affects bodyclock), ADHD, or mood issues into the mix and it's tough.

And to the people suggesting she be required to walk 5 miles. Are you for real? Many people live near major roads where walking isn't feasible. And someone is going to call CPS.

Are YOU for real? Read what I posted. I specified if it's a safe walk with sidewalks. Obviously I'm not advocating for anyone to walk down a busy street with no sidealk.

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Anonymous wrote:You leave at X time, and if she's not in the car you leave without her. Do you have to go straight to work right after dropping them off?
How far is school? Is it walkable-meaning a safe walk with sidewalks? If it's less than five miles away with sidewalks, that's walkable. If it's more than five miles and/or there's no sidewalks, then you drive her after you get back--but no excuse notes. She takes the unexcused tardy.
At my kid's school, three tardies= detention.

Five miles? Get real.

Five miles is real. Middle schoolers are more than capable of walking five miles.

It is patently absurd to suggest that a MS aged girl walk 5 miles alone to school.

It's not. It's appropriate natural consequences.

To each their own. I would not send my 11 year old DD on a 5 mile trek alone to school because if something ever happened to her I would not be able to live with myself.

DP and I get it. This is one of the hardest parts about parenting. But you really need to white knuckle through some things for the good of your kid.

You do you, but I am certainly not white knuckling through my 11 year old DD walking 5 miles by herself to school. I see it as a safety issue, you may not see it that way but I do.

Okay. It’s clearly a potential safety issue, but it’s an unlikely safety issue. Fostering independence and confidence in her own abilities matters. You’re not doing your daughter any favors. But yeah, you do you.

What's your plan if she decides to not walk to school? To wander off somewhere, go back home, go shoplifting for lunch, go hangout with the kids who deal fentanyl and carjack? "Natural consequences"?

I'm the pp that said she should walk to school. The parent walks WITH her. The point is not to have her do dangerous things on her own. The point is for her to deal with the consequences.

OP, please take your DD for bloodwork. Make sure they include a thyroid panel and vitamin workup (iron, D, B12, calcium). DD had terrible issues all last year (as a HS freshman), and it turned out to be thyroid and vitamin deficiency related.

She gets in the car at the appointed time or something dire happens. One five minute warning. If she’s asleep, she needs to get in the car in her pajamas without breakfast. A few times that happened I would put clothes and a banana in the car for her. Maybe forever.

But you have to stop letting everyone else being angry and cajoling be an option. It’s just not an option. If you have to physically wrestle her into the car, fine.

My DD was having issues, not getting up early and to school, but staying awake afterwards. Sleeping like 3+ hours and sleeping hard. Turns out she had issue with increased iron levels, which creates fatigue and, long term, other issues.

So def get a workup.