Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are millennial DINKs. Couldn't be happier. Own a home. Max out retirement accounts. Take multiple trips per year. Have very little debt except a mortgage. Sleep until 10 AM on the weekends.

Kids ruin everything. I paid $85k off in student loans. I will absolutely NEVER pay another college bill again in my life. F that. Then they gouge the crap outta you for $3000-4000 per mo for childcare. Ridiculous. There's also no guarantee your kid won't turn out to be a F up even if you raise them right. I know so many kids raised in good homes who ended up becoming opioid addicts, so one robbed a bank, and others popping out kids out of wedlock by the time they're 21. The worst ones are kids who get into serious trouble and the parents blow their entire life's savings on legal fees or rehab to save their precious little Hunter or Emily.

Nope, nope, nope. Finally getting ahead in life because of no kids.

Geez...I have no problem with your decision, but who do you hang out with that you know all these derelict kids? Where are you from/do you live?

Very good people. The one kid who was a F up was the son of a VP of a local company. Literally low IQ and poor decision making. I was friends of the other son though - college buddy. The son who was messed up did a stupid stunt in a pool and ended up fracturing his vertebrae. Then it required use of opioids, which is TERRIBLE with someone with an addictive personality. He got addicted to opioids and spiraled out of control. The parents spent in ordinate sums of money on multiple rehab treatments, interventions, and therapists. Didn't matter. He still spiraled, and is still addicted to drugs and booze. They disowned him from the family. The other son I was friends with is perfectly fine and does well with his career.


Another guy I know was the brother of the woman my friend married. Very good home. The parents lived in a 6000 sqft house. The son ended up just getting in with the wrong crowd and got caught selling drugs. The parents spent boat loads keeping him out of jail, but he's still a loser.


And finally my female cousin is a screw up. Again, a good home. Mom is a nurse and dad an electrician. All the opportunities in the world to go to college, etc. She ended up choosing the wrong crowd and got addicted to opioids somehow (Kids these days are popping oxy like candy if you didn't know - just look at MoCo high schools). Opoid addiction spiraled into heroin addiction. She needed up getting pregnant by like 20 looked very rough. Her mom ended up having to take care of the baby while her addiction spiraled out of control. She ended up getting cozy with very bad hombres to feed her addiction and ended up trying to rob a bank to feed her addiction. She was caught and spent about 8 years in prison while missing out on her daughter growing up.


Again, just because you have kids and raise them right is no guarantee of success. There are so many bad people and influences out there that can completely undermine the best parenting efforts in no time. Have fun blowing hundreds of thousands of dollars on legal bills and taking care of your daughter's out of wed lock baby.

No thanks. I'll enjoy my 10 AM else times and multiple international trips.. plus no more college bills!

Anonymous wrote:Women have seemed to crave children biologically for millennia. Has that really changed, statistically?

Personal preferences of women not yet premenopausal are less relevant than those of women who've been through it.

I think the fear of the state controlling women's bodies has made having children less appealing. Republicand only care about babies while in womb. After that you are on your own.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are millennial DINKs. Couldn't be happier. Own a home. Max out retirement accounts. Take multiple trips per year. Have very little debt except a mortgage. Sleep until 10 AM on the weekends.

Kids ruin everything. I paid $85k off in student loans. I will absolutely NEVER pay another college bill again in my life. F that. Then they gouge the crap outta you for $3000-4000 per mo for childcare. Ridiculous. There's also no guarantee your kid won't turn out to be a F up even if you raise them right. I know so many kids raised in good homes who ended up becoming opioid addicts, so one robbed a bank, and others popping out kids out of wedlock by the time they're 21. The worst ones are kids who get into serious trouble and the parents blow their entire life's savings on legal fees or rehab to save their precious little Hunter or Emily.

Nope, nope, nope. Finally getting ahead in life because of no kids.

Perspectives like this are the problem. This is just sad.

Says the person who probably grew up with Mommy and daddy money paying for college and a down payment for their first home. And from someone who probably never had significant job loss after 2008 or during COVID.


Life is easy when you have mommy and daddy money and no set backs ever, ain't it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:how is that a future they die no next gen

Except there will always people who still want children. It's just nice to be able to have options.

The statement that "DINKs are the future" indicates that it's the future of society, not just a nice option for some people.

[I think it's a nice option for some people but no, is not the future of society]

There’s no future in DINKing life that doesn’t beget life terminates

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are millennial DINKs. Couldn't be happier. Own a home. Max out retirement accounts. Take multiple trips per year. Have very little debt except a mortgage. Sleep until 10 AM on the weekends.

Kids ruin everything. I paid $85k off in student loans. I will absolutely NEVER pay another college bill again in my life. F that. Then they gouge the crap outta you for $3000-4000 per mo for childcare. Ridiculous. There's also no guarantee your kid won't turn out to be a F up even if you raise them right. I know so many kids raised in good homes who ended up becoming opioid addicts, so one robbed a bank, and others popping out kids out of wedlock by the time they're 21. The worst ones are kids who get into serious trouble and the parents blow their entire life's savings on legal fees or rehab to save their precious little Hunter or Emily.

Nope, nope, nope. Finally getting ahead in life because of no kids.

Ok, but deal with your trauma bc your aggressive posturing is rooted in that.

+1 Most DINKS and SINKS I know have had traumatic childhoods and wouldn't make good parents, but pp should work through it for her own sake.

I had a great childhood. Am very close with my parents and sibling, too. Love being an aunt. Just never wanted a kid of my own.

Anonymous wrote:how is that a future they die no next gen

Except there will always people who still want children. It's just nice to be able to have options.

Anonymous wrote:We are millennial DINKs. Couldn't be happier. Own a home. Max out retirement accounts. Take multiple trips per year. Have very little debt except a mortgage. Sleep until 10 AM on the weekends.

Kids ruin everything. I paid $85k off in student loans. I will absolutely NEVER pay another college bill again in my life. F that. Then they gouge the crap outta you for $3000-4000 per mo for childcare. Ridiculous. There's also no guarantee your kid won't turn out to be a F up even if you raise them right. I know so many kids raised in good homes who ended up becoming opioid addicts, so one robbed a bank, and others popping out kids out of wedlock by the time they're 21. The worst ones are kids who get into serious trouble and the parents blow their entire life's savings on legal fees or rehab to save their precious little Hunter or Emily.

Nope, nope, nope. Finally getting ahead in life because of no kids.

I support anyone's choice not to have kids, for any reason, but the bolded is just something bad parents say to feel less guilty about how poorly they parented their kids. I know people who point at their kids and say "gosh we did everything right and no one could have predicted they would turn out so poorly," and, uh, they did not do everything right and many people could have predicted what might happen with their kids.

Which is actually why I firmly support anyone's choice not to have kids. Having kids is hard! I love it, but it would not be worth the sacrifice if I didn't. You have to be ready to make your kids your life's work, not just something you did to fit in or because people told you it was time or you worried you might regret it if you didn't.

I don't think DINKs are "the future" because, uh, whose future would that be? But I very much support the idea that we should make parenting a totally optional choice. I think we should then make sure the parents who choose to do it are well supported and that the kids have good opportunities, because we all stand to benefit from a society of well raised kids.

That's the secret sauce to some of these economies with low birth rates but still very functional societies -- they channel a lot of money and support to children, and even people who don't have kids support the idea that society needs to spend money on childcare, education, supporting parents, healthcare for kids, etc. That's the piece Americans miss. There are lots of childless people in Europe but you don't often hear them complaining about their taxes going to children. They know those kids are future nurses and engineers and bus drivers and other people who are desperately needed by society, so they don't resent it. In the US there is this very short-sighted attitude that people who don't have kids should never have to support or accommodate children because "kids are a choice." I mean, yeah they are, but that doesn't mean we don't all have a fundamental interest in making sure they turn out okay.

I am a DINK in my 40s who does not plan on having kids, and I think most people will continue to want kids. Most of my friends my age have kids. I can think of only a handful of couples I know who have chosen not to have kids. I also a few friends who are SINKs but who wanted children and would have tried to have them if they had a partner.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are millennial DINKs. Couldn't be happier. Own a home. Max out retirement accounts. Take multiple trips per year. Have very little debt except a mortgage. Sleep until 10 AM on the weekends.

Kids ruin everything. I paid $85k off in student loans. I will absolutely NEVER pay another college bill again in my life. F that. Then they gouge the crap outta you for $3000-4000 per mo for childcare. Ridiculous. There's also no guarantee your kid won't turn out to be a F up even if you raise them right. I know so many kids raised in good homes who ended up becoming opioid addicts, so one robbed a bank, and others popping out kids out of wedlock by the time they're 21. The worst ones are kids who get into serious trouble and the parents blow their entire life's savings on legal fees or rehab to save their precious little Hunter or Emily.

Nope, nope, nope. Finally getting ahead in life because of no kids.

Ok, but deal with your trauma bc your aggressive posturing is rooted in that.

+1 Most DINKS and SINKS I know have had traumatic childhoods and wouldn't make good parents, but pp should work through it for her own sake.

how is that a future they die no next gen

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are millennial DINKs. Couldn't be happier. Own a home. Max out retirement accounts. Take multiple trips per year. Have very little debt except a mortgage. Sleep until 10 AM on the weekends.

Kids ruin everything. I paid $85k off in student loans. I will absolutely NEVER pay another college bill again in my life. F that. Then they gouge the crap outta you for $3000-4000 per mo for childcare. Ridiculous. There's also no guarantee your kid won't turn out to be a F up even if you raise them right. I know so many kids raised in good homes who ended up becoming opioid addicts, so one robbed a bank, and others popping out kids out of wedlock by the time they're 21. The worst ones are kids who get into serious trouble and the parents blow their entire life's savings on legal fees or rehab to save their precious little Hunter or Emily.

Nope, nope, nope. Finally getting ahead in life because of no kids.

So it's all about money and sleeping in until 10am? OK.

One of the more immature responses.

Who are your friends?? Opioid addict, bank robbing, teen pregnancies??

Kids will help you get ahead in life more than you think. Since having kids my income has gone up immensely. I work in a service based business and people love that I have kids. Most of my client convos are about my kids. Referrals come in a lot more regularly.

Grow your income and have kids. Life isn't about going to Chiang Mai and sleeping until 10. Our country is so F'ed.

It’s not about money? In the finance forum? Really?

Blaming money to not have kids is a sell out answer..particularly if you already own a home, max our 401ks, etc.

Word of advice..as a grown adult you shouldn't be bragging about sleeping in until 10am on the weekends...

Why, you jealous? I'd rather hear about sleeping in until 10am vs cleaning up little larlos blowout

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We are millennial DINKs. Couldn't be happier. Own a home. Max out retirement accounts. Take multiple trips per year. Have very little debt except a mortgage. Sleep until 10 AM on the weekends.

Kids ruin everything. I paid $85k off in student loans. I will absolutely NEVER pay another college bill again in my life. F that. Then they gouge the crap outta you for $3000-4000 per mo for childcare. Ridiculous. There's also no guarantee your kid won't turn out to be a F up even if you raise them right. I know so many kids raised in good homes who ended up becoming opioid addicts, so one robbed a bank, and others popping out kids out of wedlock by the time they're 21. The worst ones are kids who get into serious trouble and the parents blow their entire life's savings on legal fees or rehab to save their precious little Hunter or Emily.

Nope, nope, nope. Finally getting ahead in life because of no kids.

So it's all about money and sleeping in until 10am? OK.

One of the more immature responses.

Who are your friends?? Opioid addict, bank robbing, teen pregnancies??

Kids will help you get ahead in life more than you think. Since having kids my income has gone up immensely. I work in a service based business and people love that I have kids. Most of my client convos are about my kids. Referrals come in a lot more regularly.

Grow your income and have kids. Life isn't about going to Chiang Mai and sleeping until 10. Our country is so F'ed.

What terrible advice. Why would you tell someone who clearly doesnt want kids to have kids? Why would you encourage people who DONT WANT TO BE PARENTS to raise a child? Gosh that sounds dumb.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:If so, I am optimistic that this will result in the added bonus of diminishing their progressive political ideaology since the couples who will likely opt into continuing to reproduce will trend conservative.

It's a dynamic equilibrium.

Conservatives create more conservatives by birthing them, and then create progressives by raising them.

I’m not sure about that.
A lot more people become progressive after having struggled through life.

A strong indicator for having to struggle through life having been an unwanted or unplanned for child. Before contraception and women having the ability to have careers and really make their own life choices, there were a lot more unwanted/uncared for kids being born, therefore more trauma, therefore more obstacles, and a harder life.

Kids growing up in a family that loves and wants them are generally going to grow up to be successful productive adults who may need to rely less on social services, therefore might not necessarily see why they are needed for some people.

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Anonymous wrote:How can DINKs be the future? Once we reach negative population growth, we wind up with massive economic problems. It doesn't work. Our whole society depends on the idea of there always being a replacement workforce (who will pay taxes and take care of the elderly) coming up.

I don't care if any individual person has kids or not, and I myself decided to only have one so my spouse and I didn't even reach replacement level. But the idea that "the future" is people just choosing not to have kids is crazy because that future would be extremely short lived and ultimately really unpleasant.

This a Malthusian pre-industrial myth.

Growing population creates poverty because people need to eat, so the elites owners of capital can make them compete for subsistence wages.

Yes, fewer children means fewer young people for old people to rob. That problem fixes itself in one generation, as the number of old people shrinks.

This is so cute, because you are overlooking what the DINK lifestyle is and the way it relies heavily on capitalism and population/GDP growth in order to function.

The ideal of the DINK lifestyle is having two decent jobs, a home in a place with plenty to do (good restaurants, nightlife, parks, etc.), and the disposable income to not only enjoy those things but also to outsource the stuff you don't want to do. DINKs like their house cleaners, their meal kits, their dog walkers and sitters so they can travel and go out to dinner, yes? Also consumer goods -- TVs and computers and new furniture and fancy running shoes? Workout classes and food halls? Well all of that requires moderate population growth to support. You cannot have that lifestyle if suddenly everyone stops having kids. It would not "fix itself" in a generation. It would be a massive shift in way of life and not one that many current DINKs would enjoy. What if being a DINK meant having to do literally everything yourself because there's no workforce to outsource it to? What if many of the fields DINKs work in die because they rely on a large workforce of relatively cheap labor (i.e. young people and immigrants) to function? What happens when your dual-income shrinks because there aren't consulting jobs and Big Law jobs and non-profit jobs because those industries can't sustain themselves without either a larger low-level workforce OR a larger consumer base (or both?).

Also, if literally everyone became a DINK, the population would just die out. Do you know what population death would look like? The last 50 years of that would be painful and cruel. You want to live through that? Enjoy.

But okay, please entertain with your crack-pot pseudo-intellectual theories on capitalism (which I don't even like, I would support European style socialism which keeps the worst aspects of capitalism in check, but anyway). It's hilarious.

Then perhaps as a country, America should enact policies to help families with children. Maybe if housing, and food, and healthcare, and childcare were actually affordable and our education system wasn’t a dumpster fire, you would have more people interested in having kids. If having children is essential to society, why does society put the cost of it almost entirely on parents?

It IS affordable. Especially compared to other western countries. Americans have one of the highest disposable incomes in the world.

For whatever reason, younger generations resent spending their income on housing, food etc. That’s exactly what you’re supposed to be spending it on. Not luxury vacations, dog walkers, etc.

Look…no 1st world country has a birthrate that supports growing the country, so unclear what the “answer” may be.

Norway has free everything…childcare, healthcare, college and a birth rate of 1.48 kids. Now groceries, restaurants, etc are very expensive.

Korea has a great “education” although if going to school for 6 hours and then going to cram school for 6 hours is how you want to define great…well their birth rate is 0.72

The US at 1.64 is actually probably still the highest of the 1st world countries.

It’s really African countries with high birth rates.

I mean, what do I know, but it seems like lowering the number of people overall in the world - but allowing more migration/immigration - is probably a pretty good balance. Consume fewer resources overall but allow people to go with they have the most economic opportunity. Then see how things balance out.

This is the dirty little secret that gets lost in politics...more people = growing GDP. It doesn't matter how you get the people, whether through natural birth or immigration.

Immigration actually fuels GDP growth in the US compared to other 1st world countries.

That feels like it should be an explicit policy. Immigration is a net good. It also speaks well of the place people are immigrating to. People don't move to a place where they don't have opportunities and where their kids won't do better than they would if they hadn't moved.

Also, immigrants will take jobs that Americans don't want. It allows our society to keep functioning, in ways that we all enjoy.

What's wrong with saying that out loud?

I'm a centrist D and I do think we need more border control - and we also need more opportunities for legal immigration. Not just doctors, though we need more doctors, too - but people who want to do things that even the poorest Americans will not do, but that need doing as things are today.