Anonymous wrote:A lot of these men are having affairs, including emotional affairs. They're angry and resentful that their real lives don't live up to whatever nonsense fantasy they've built around the affair/AP and they lash out at their wives and kids.

Maybe. The ones are know are so emotionally vapid that the affair woman must be really driving that bus. Maybe she took the Total Adoration tact to get him.

A lot of these men are having affairs, including emotional affairs. They're angry and resentful that their real lives don't live up to whatever nonsense fantasy they've built around the affair/AP and they lash out at their wives and kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reasonable discussions just don’t happen with emotionally dysregulated or untreated mentally disordered people.

Stop trying that or suggesting that. They don’t care about your feelings, nor understand them, nor care to.

As our PhD therapist, who specializes in aspergers, said: Do not accommodate dysfunction (and certainly not abuse)

Honest question, what does your therapist say to do? Grey rock? The boundaries suggested above?

Yes grey rock, be positive, join support groups, focus on your own friends and kids and work, take vacations with others, run the house as if a single mom with sitters and Nannie’s and cleaners, don’t ask him for anything, disclose what yours going through to close friends & family, stay social with the kids with normal families and others. Try communicating more via email or text so his slow processing speed can cope.

I will do this but it seems to really reward the maladjusted person. I handle it all without asking much. I don’t call them out on abusive BS. They just sit around and relax? I’m not sure i have a better choice.

The real reward for this kind of person is your attention and interaction - even when it's negative attention. Grey rocking cut that off.

Yes, it's not fair that you have to do all the work of parenting and house. But, you can't make him do the work or behave. Anyway, it's, frankly, easier to do all that when you don't have to involve him or rely on him ( which you couldn't anyway.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reasonable discussions just don’t happen with emotionally dysregulated or untreated mentally disordered people.

Stop trying that or suggesting that. They don’t care about your feelings, nor understand them, nor care to.

As our PhD therapist, who specializes in aspergers, said: Do not accommodate dysfunction (and certainly not abuse)

Honest question, what does your therapist say to do? Grey rock? The boundaries suggested above?

Yes grey rock, be positive, join support groups, focus on your own friends and kids and work, take vacations with others, run the house as if a single mom with sitters and Nannie’s and cleaners, don’t ask him for anything, disclose what yours going through to close friends & family, stay social with the kids with normal families and others. Try communicating more via email or text so his slow processing speed can cope.

I will do this but it seems to really reward the maladjusted person. I handle it all without asking much. I don’t call them out on abusive BS. They just sit around and relax? I’m not sure i have a better choice.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reasonable discussions just don’t happen with emotionally dysregulated or untreated mentally disordered people.

Stop trying that or suggesting that. They don’t care about your feelings, nor understand them, nor care to.

As our PhD therapist, who specializes in aspergers, said: Do not accommodate dysfunction (and certainly not abuse)

Honest question, what does your therapist say to do? Grey rock? The boundaries suggested above?

Yes grey rock, be positive, join support groups, focus on your own friends and kids and work, take vacations with others, run the house as if a single mom with sitters and Nannie’s and cleaners, don’t ask him for anything, disclose what yours going through to close friends & family, stay social with the kids with normal families and others. Try communicating more via email or text so his slow processing speed can cope.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Reasonable discussions just don’t happen with emotionally dysregulated or untreated mentally disordered people.

Stop trying that or suggesting that. They don’t care about your feelings, nor understand them, nor care to.

As our PhD therapist, who specializes in aspergers, said: Do not accommodate dysfunction (and certainly not abuse)

Honest question, what does your therapist say to do? Grey rock? The boundaries suggested above?

She said that she would his punching bag, let him vent his (irrational and incorrect) anger about me to her, and slowly try to open his mind to other views and perceptions besides everyone is out to get him.

She also recommended a 10 stop anger mgmt class. He said he’d do it but never did, even when I looked it up.

A year in as he was putting in zero effort to all the little baby step things he had agreed to do (go outside and take a walk when angry, read personal emails & respond once a week (he was never them), say 1 compliment a day.

She then recommended he do a year of DBT to relearn how to respond to people and situations in a civil and respectful manner. He never looked into it or did that two times a week either.

Then he quit therapy altogether as it was a waste of $200 a week or whatever.

He likes to be left alone so now all three of us leave him alone. Once in awhile I give him a task to do and he may do it or he may explode. He instantly takes anything personally yet we barely talk about anything so it’s clear he has a ton of bottled up anger from something going on at work or somewhere. Of course he doesn’t articulate or ID it at all.

Anonymous wrote:Reasonable discussions just don’t happen with emotionally dysregulated or untreated mentally disordered people.

Stop trying that or suggesting that. They don’t care about your feelings, nor understand them, nor care to.

As our PhD therapist, who specializes in aspergers, said: Do not accommodate dysfunction (and certainly not abuse)

Honest question, what does your therapist say to do? Grey rock? The boundaries suggested above?

Reasonable discussions just don’t happen with emotionally dysregulated or untreated mentally disordered people.

Stop trying that or suggesting that. They don’t care about your feelings, nor understand them, nor care to.

As our PhD therapist, who specializes in aspergers, said: Do not accommodate dysfunction (and certainly not abuse)

Anonymous wrote:Male here.
You say “you said some pretty nasty things to me and have an on again/zoff again nasty streak. I don’t believe anyone especially me as your spouse deserves to be spoken to this way. You can not and I willl not let you speak to me or treat me like that. With that being said is this something you are will to stop and address?”
Let him respond. If he starts going of on a tangent or making excuses. Say “i have expressed my feelings and my question is, is this something you are will to address?”

If he says any form of no, you have your answer.

If he says yes, ask him how he plans to address it. If he says he doesn’t know. Say “why don’t you let me know by Thursday (2-3 day later ) what your plan is. If you need help coming up with a plan why don’t we set aside some time tomorrow night to work on a plan. But this discussion will only be about making a plan not about what happened or anything else”.

If

Female here.

This advice is a classic example of foisting men's work on women. It is not the woman's job to force her DH to make a plan to learn how to stop being abusive. You are essentially advising her how to more effectively control the husband's behavior.

Women can't control men's behavior. The woman is responsible for her own behavior only - making sure she is communicating clearly and respectfully and making sure her boundaries are clear.

Saying "You cannot and I will not let you speak to me or treat me like that" is not boundary. It is trying to control the man's behavior.

Saying I will not listen or engage when you speak to me like that is a boundary. She states what she will do at a boundary violation. Then when she encounters this behavior, she states the boundary violation, "you are shouting at me, I will not engage when you are treating me like this. When you feel able to talk calmly about this, you can try again if you want. ". Then she just walk away or whatever the situation allows. A good individual therapist can help the woman strategize about this.

All that blather about what is his plan is a waste of time. She is not responsible for getting him to make a plan, monitoring his carrying out of the plan, etc. She is only responsible for monitoring herself, carrying out her responsibilities and protecting herself and the kids. To the later point, if his behavior is batshit, then she is responsible for setting boundaries. If he continues to violate the boundaries, then she is responsible for removing herself and the kids in whatever way is possible, which can stretch from grey-rocking, having more separate time, or ending the relationship.

Anonymous wrote:I have an older brother who gets mean. He’s been mean for my entire life. As an adult, he can socialize and be friendly, but he has little patience and is prone to awkward childish outbursts in response to mild frustrations. When he is tired, he cannot mask his frustrations.

Now he is married with kids and one of his daughters is exhibiting the same pattern.

I don’t know if there is a cure. According to my parents and older relatives, he was mean from Day 1.

The above could be anything.

He’d need a neuropsych test or someone very observable and dependent on him living 24/7 with him to determine if his anger is acute and all there is, or an output of a disorder.

The asd related posts here are dealing with someone out of touch with emotions and understanding (ie empathy in action), and they usually underreact (or don’t respond whatsoever, they want questions or comments to go away).
Then things build and then they massively overreact. They prefer to be left alone and never questioned.

I dont have people who “get mad” at seeing a new dent in their car or a car rental “losing their reservation.” Thats normal, they process their emotion, try to advocate, and then move on.

I do have a problem with the immature, juvenile Anger reaction to basic things or questions or as a coverup to deflect from the issue at hand. Or anger in order to never apologize or take responsibility.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Male here.
You say “you said some pretty nasty things to me and have an on again/zoff again nasty streak. I don’t believe anyone especially me as your spouse deserves to be spoken to this way. You can not and I willl not let you speak to me or treat me like that. With that being said is this something you are will to stop and address?”
Let him respond. If he starts going of on a tangent or making excuses. Say “i have expressed my feelings and my question is, is this something you are will to address?”

If he says any form of no, you have your answer.

If he says yes, ask him how he plans to address it. If he says he doesn’t know. Say “why don’t you let me know by Thursday (2-3 day later ) what your plan is. If you need help coming up with a plan why don’t we set aside some time tomorrow night to work on a plan. But this discussion will only be about making a plan not about what happened or anything else”.

If

Oooh boy.I've tried this. It's reasonable advice, but it's like escalating times a million to try to be rational. Only gets meaner. Try reasoning with a child in tantrum and then you have a better idea of what this is.

Agree.

He never answers or responds to the actual, underlying question.

He’d rather have an hour long argument and mount personal attacks than answer basic questions. It’s like a drama performance.

He will ruin the whole relationship trying to avoid answering questions and protect his image and ego.

This is all way more than anxiety or depression, it’s nasty and psychotic. In some “episodes” he rewrites whole narratives of what happens (usually with him as the hero or victim), then denies saying it two minutes later. Delusional.

Keep a journal so you see the delusions, abuse and frequency.

Don’t engage, walk away. Even if that means leaving dinner half cooked or grabbing the kids and going to the library.

I have an older brother who gets mean. He’s been mean for my entire life. As an adult, he can socialize and be friendly, but he has little patience and is prone to awkward childish outbursts in response to mild frustrations. When he is tired, he cannot mask his frustrations.

Now he is married with kids and one of his daughters is exhibiting the same pattern.

I don’t know if there is a cure. According to my parents and older relatives, he was mean from Day 1.

Anonymous wrote:NP and my DH does this. He has ADHd/ASD (diagnosed, medicated for the ADHD since adulthood) and this is his typical pattern when tired or when out of his normal routine- in other words, on vacation, during holidays and on weekends.

The only explanation I have for it is that it’s a maladaptive coping mechanism he developed in childhood and relies on because it’s so effective. It’s obvious from childhood stories and from interactions with his parents now that he learned early on to deflect feelings of discomfort from criticism, mistakes or even biological needs like being hungry or tired by throwing a tantrum. The tantrums force people to either concede to his needs/wants to de-escalate the situation or to drop the subject when the situation involves criticism or a mistake.

Omg. Same here w first paragraph, diagnosed when big problems in his functioning because more visible once we had kids and I was expected a partner and normal communication.

Always temper tantruming and bullying to get his way. And gaslighting, even blames his own 8yo than take responsibility

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Why on earth would anyone stay in a marriage like this?! Way to show your kids how to be a doormat and put up with abuse.

Some people don't have an out that doesn't destroy their kids' lives. Financial abuse is a large component of why people stay/take a long time to extricate themselves from abusive relationships.

And as a pp pointed out, co-parenting with an abuser doesn't stop the abuse. It just gives them a new venue.

THIS! If I had left the moment I knew he was emotionally abusive I wouldn't have my children but I was young and isolated from friends and family. Each event that happened along the way prolonged the possibility of escape and deepened his issues. One kid, then another, then another. Financial abuse that kept me hamstrung and my own income not being enough to live on with 3 kids. My inability to leave seemed to validate him and his tactics. OP, please consider that as you move forward and carve a path for yourself. Is your strength at trying to fix yourself first sending a message that YOU are the one broken and he doesn't need to fix himself? Of course you can't make him and you absolutely should be getting therapy but an abuser will not change just because you do.
I'm finally getting out because the middle one is a senior and I'll have the ability to downsize when he goes to college. The youngest is in middle school so unfortunately I'll be co-parenting with a narcissist for the next several years. It's already a daily nightmare but at least it's no longer an in-person nightmare.

Anonymous wrote:Male here.
You say “you said some pretty nasty things to me and have an on again/zoff again nasty streak. I don’t believe anyone especially me as your spouse deserves to be spoken to this way. You can not and I willl not let you speak to me or treat me like that. With that being said is this something you are will to stop and address?”
Let him respond. If he starts going of on a tangent or making excuses. Say “i have expressed my feelings and my question is, is this something you are will to address?”

If he says any form of no, you have your answer.

If he says yes, ask him how he plans to address it. If he says he doesn’t know. Say “why don’t you let me know by Thursday (2-3 day later ) what your plan is. If you need help coming up with a plan why don’t we set aside some time tomorrow night to work on a plan. But this discussion will only be about making a plan not about what happened or anything else”.

If

Oooh boy.I've tried this. It's reasonable advice, but it's like escalating times a million to try to be rational. Only gets meaner. Try reasoning with a child in tantrum and then you have a better idea of what this is.