Anonymous wrote:My dd is popular, but on the edge of popularity. If there’s a 1%, she’s a 2%er.

She would answer (I didn’t ask her directly):
For girls:
Has all the merch, or access to it, even if they don’t like or buy into it.
The moms are friends and hang out. They even go on exepensive vacations as families.
No concern for modesty in clothes. Just wear whatever they want, even to school.
Get picked up the neighborhood (at the bus stop) in the parent’s or big sister’s Jeep or golf cart or other cool ride.
Many of them have sisters 15 years older. Seriously. It’s like mom had one when she was 20. Broken relationship. Had another when she was 35. Big sister teaches the younger sister how to be popular.
Usually cheerleading or dance.
Most of them blonde.
In my area, it helps to be a longterm local.

My dd has none of those things but, I do buy her some merch. She’s naturally way prettier than these other girls. Even though the other girls seem prettier with blonde hair and expensive clothes, their faces look like their dads’. So it helps them with the family ties, maybe longterm local connection “looks just like her rich grandaddy!” (But just as ugly)

My dd is confident, friendly, has a boyfriend that isn’t there coolest either but a lot of people “like like” him. She and he both have “rizz.”

They’re both super confident which makes up for the less rich thing.

The bolded is true. And honestly, a little weird to me.

The families go on vacation together, and the parents just hang out with the parents (and get drunk) and the kids go off on their own.

We were invited on a beach trip with 2 other families and won't go again. It was super weird to essentially not spend time with the kids on vacation.

My dd is popular, but on the edge of popularity. If there’s a 1%, she’s a 2%er.

She would answer (I didn’t ask her directly):
For girls:
Has all the merch, or access to it, even if they don’t like or buy into it.
The moms are friends and hang out. They even go on exepensive vacations as families.
No concern for modesty in clothes. Just wear whatever they want, even to school.
Get picked up the neighborhood (at the bus stop) in the parent’s or big sister’s Jeep or golf cart or other cool ride.
Many of them have sisters 15 years older. Seriously. It’s like mom had one when she was 20. Broken relationship. Had another when she was 35. Big sister teaches the younger sister how to be popular.
Usually cheerleading or dance.
Most of them blonde.
In my area, it helps to be a longterm local.

My dd has none of those things but, I do buy her some merch. She’s naturally way prettier than these other girls. Even though the other girls seem prettier with blonde hair and expensive clothes, their faces look like their dads’. So it helps them with the family ties, maybe longterm local connection “looks just like her rich grandaddy!” (But just as ugly)

My dd is confident, friendly, has a boyfriend that isn’t there coolest either but a lot of people “like like” him. She and he both have “rizz.”

They’re both super confident which makes up for the less rich thing.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And do the same popular middle school kids stay popular in high school?

I have 12 (7th grade) and 14 (9th grade) year old boys.

My older son has a friend group consisting of smart athletic boys and he is in many academic extracurriculars. These boys are motivated and achievers. DS is an A+ student and always has been.

My younger son just started middle school and is not so interested in school. He currently has a mix of As, Bs and Cs. He seems much more interested in making new friends and hanging out with the cooler kids who seem more popular. In my opinion, these kids just seem like they do stupid things to gain attention.

What makes a kid popular?

Both kids have told me the popular kids go to parties and drink and do drugs. My high school kid doesn’t get invited to these parties (yet?). I’m glad he isn’t in that group. I do worry for my younger son because he seems much more interested in how social life than anything else.

For girls, its if you are slutty and for boys it's if you are athletic.

Wait if the girls are “slutty” who are they being “slutty” with if the boys are just innocent athletes?!?

Exactly. Can we please STOP the dated "girls are sluts" sh---? If the girls are SO ARE THE BOYS.

There are supposedly a few girls who get around and labeled sluts. DS told me that the boys on their middle school bus make fun of the fat girls and slutty girls and the girls cry on the bus. DS is a good kid and can’t imagine him saying this. I said he should stick up for the girls, especially the girl he knows and I am friends with mom. He said if he said something, those guys may target him instead. Sounds awful.

Wait wait. So you are saying the girls are sluts but the boys doing things with the girls are what?!? Do you hear yourself?!?!?

I can assure you even the nice boys are asking for nudes, watching porn, manipulating girls on social media, and then making fun of them.

I also know as my kids are all past middle school that most of the girls with reputations are based on rumors only. I saw it happen with one girl. Boys are really good with planting faces on bodies when a girl isn’t interested in them. That happened 3 years ago to a girl who finally filed harassment charges and won.

So the slutty girl narrative by boy moms is getting old.

While I agree it's a ridiculous double standard between boys/girls, it's not fair to paint all 'nice boys' with that brush. I have a boy in middle school who is very athletic and therefore popular I guess, whatever that means, but he is not asking for nudes, watching porn or manipulating anyone. He's a nice, good kid. Some of them still exist. And yes, I would know if he were doing these things as he has no social media and I very carefully monitor his phone.

Not the PP but you really think your middle school kid is not watching porn or getting nudes sent to him? Come on LOL

Wake up. No matter how careful you are, they are smarter. There are apps to hide things, kids offload apps before handing phone to parents each night. Set notifications to delete immediately, and have fake accounts. They clear their histories too.

My DD’s best friend isn’t allowed social media apps and she has had snap for 3 years. Just deletes it each night before plugging her phone in and downloads it the next day.

But there are restrictions where the child needs to get permission to download the app. Every single app. Every single time. How does she get around that?

Or, she doesn't have to, bc the parent really hasn't taken any precautions?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And do the same popular middle school kids stay popular in high school?

I have 12 (7th grade) and 14 (9th grade) year old boys.

My older son has a friend group consisting of smart athletic boys and he is in many academic extracurriculars. These boys are motivated and achievers. DS is an A+ student and always has been.

My younger son just started middle school and is not so interested in school. He currently has a mix of As, Bs and Cs. He seems much more interested in making new friends and hanging out with the cooler kids who seem more popular. In my opinion, these kids just seem like they do stupid things to gain attention.

What makes a kid popular?

Both kids have told me the popular kids go to parties and drink and do drugs. My high school kid doesn’t get invited to these parties (yet?). I’m glad he isn’t in that group. I do worry for my younger son because he seems much more interested in how social life than anything else.

For girls, its if you are slutty and for boys it's if you are athletic.

Wait if the girls are “slutty” who are they being “slutty” with if the boys are just innocent athletes?!?

Exactly. Can we please STOP the dated "girls are sluts" sh---? If the girls are SO ARE THE BOYS.

There are supposedly a few girls who get around and labeled sluts. DS told me that the boys on their middle school bus make fun of the fat girls and slutty girls and the girls cry on the bus. DS is a good kid and can’t imagine him saying this. I said he should stick up for the girls, especially the girl he knows and I am friends with mom. He said if he said something, those guys may target him instead. Sounds awful.

Wait wait. So you are saying the girls are sluts but the boys doing things with the girls are what?!? Do you hear yourself?!?!?

I can assure you even the nice boys are asking for nudes, watching porn, manipulating girls on social media, and then making fun of them.

I also know as my kids are all past middle school that most of the girls with reputations are based on rumors only. I saw it happen with one girl. Boys are really good with planting faces on bodies when a girl isn’t interested in them. That happened 3 years ago to a girl who finally filed harassment charges and won.

So the slutty girl narrative by boy moms is getting old.

While I agree it's a ridiculous double standard between boys/girls, it's not fair to paint all 'nice boys' with that brush. I have a boy in middle school who is very athletic and therefore popular I guess, whatever that means, but he is not asking for nudes, watching porn or manipulating anyone. He's a nice, good kid. Some of them still exist. And yes, I would know if he were doing these things as he has no social media and I very carefully monitor his phone.

Not the PP but you really think your middle school kid is not watching porn or getting nudes sent to him? Come on LOL

Wake up. No matter how careful you are, they are smarter. There are apps to hide things, kids offload apps before handing phone to parents each night. Set notifications to delete immediately, and have fake accounts. They clear their histories too.

My DD’s best friend isn’t allowed social media apps and she has had snap for 3 years. Just deletes it each night before plugging her phone in and downloads it the next day.

Yes, I do really think that my son is not doing those things, but you clearly wouldn't believe me even if I gave you my very valid list of reasons why. I know him, you don't, so that's that. I'm sorry that your kid or her friends jaded you so much. It's sad when a child makes his or her parent feel this way and make such sweeping generalizations.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And do the same popular middle school kids stay popular in high school?

I have 12 (7th grade) and 14 (9th grade) year old boys.

My older son has a friend group consisting of smart athletic boys and he is in many academic extracurriculars. These boys are motivated and achievers. DS is an A+ student and always has been.

My younger son just started middle school and is not so interested in school. He currently has a mix of As, Bs and Cs. He seems much more interested in making new friends and hanging out with the cooler kids who seem more popular. In my opinion, these kids just seem like they do stupid things to gain attention.

What makes a kid popular?

Both kids have told me the popular kids go to parties and drink and do drugs. My high school kid doesn’t get invited to these parties (yet?). I’m glad he isn’t in that group. I do worry for my younger son because he seems much more interested in how social life than anything else.

For girls, its if you are slutty and for boys it's if you are athletic.

Wait if the girls are “slutty” who are they being “slutty” with if the boys are just innocent athletes?!?

Exactly. Can we please STOP the dated "girls are sluts" sh---? If the girls are SO ARE THE BOYS.

There are supposedly a few girls who get around and labeled sluts. DS told me that the boys on their middle school bus make fun of the fat girls and slutty girls and the girls cry on the bus. DS is a good kid and can’t imagine him saying this. I said he should stick up for the girls, especially the girl he knows and I am friends with mom. He said if he said something, those guys may target him instead. Sounds awful.

Wait wait. So you are saying the girls are sluts but the boys doing things with the girls are what?!? Do you hear yourself?!?!?

I can assure you even the nice boys are asking for nudes, watching porn, manipulating girls on social media, and then making fun of them.

I also know as my kids are all past middle school that most of the girls with reputations are based on rumors only. I saw it happen with one girl. Boys are really good with planting faces on bodies when a girl isn’t interested in them. That happened 3 years ago to a girl who finally filed harassment charges and won.

So the slutty girl narrative by boy moms is getting old.

While I agree it's a ridiculous double standard between boys/girls, it's not fair to paint all 'nice boys' with that brush. I have a boy in middle school who is very athletic and therefore popular I guess, whatever that means, but he is not asking for nudes, watching porn or manipulating anyone. He's a nice, good kid. Some of them still exist. And yes, I would know if he were doing these things as he has no social media and I very carefully monitor his phone.

Not the PP but you really think your middle school kid is not watching porn or getting nudes sent to him? Come on LOL

Wake up. No matter how careful you are, they are smarter. There are apps to hide things, kids offload apps before handing phone to parents each night. Set notifications to delete immediately, and have fake accounts. They clear their histories too.

My DD’s best friend isn’t allowed social media apps and she has had snap for 3 years. Just deletes it each night before plugging her phone in and downloads it the next day.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And do the same popular middle school kids stay popular in high school?

I have 12 (7th grade) and 14 (9th grade) year old boys.

My older son has a friend group consisting of smart athletic boys and he is in many academic extracurriculars. These boys are motivated and achievers. DS is an A+ student and always has been.

My younger son just started middle school and is not so interested in school. He currently has a mix of As, Bs and Cs. He seems much more interested in making new friends and hanging out with the cooler kids who seem more popular. In my opinion, these kids just seem like they do stupid things to gain attention.

What makes a kid popular?

Both kids have told me the popular kids go to parties and drink and do drugs. My high school kid doesn’t get invited to these parties (yet?). I’m glad he isn’t in that group. I do worry for my younger son because he seems much more interested in how social life than anything else.

For girls, its if you are slutty and for boys it's if you are athletic.

Wait if the girls are “slutty” who are they being “slutty” with if the boys are just innocent athletes?!?

Exactly. Can we please STOP the dated "girls are sluts" sh---? If the girls are SO ARE THE BOYS.

There are supposedly a few girls who get around and labeled sluts. DS told me that the boys on their middle school bus make fun of the fat girls and slutty girls and the girls cry on the bus. DS is a good kid and can’t imagine him saying this. I said he should stick up for the girls, especially the girl he knows and I am friends with mom. He said if he said something, those guys may target him instead. Sounds awful.

Wait wait. So you are saying the girls are sluts but the boys doing things with the girls are what?!? Do you hear yourself?!?!?

I can assure you even the nice boys are asking for nudes, watching porn, manipulating girls on social media, and then making fun of them.

I also know as my kids are all past middle school that most of the girls with reputations are based on rumors only. I saw it happen with one girl. Boys are really good with planting faces on bodies when a girl isn’t interested in them. That happened 3 years ago to a girl who finally filed harassment charges and won.

So the slutty girl narrative by boy moms is getting old.

While I agree it's a ridiculous double standard between boys/girls, it's not fair to paint all 'nice boys' with that brush. I have a boy in middle school who is very athletic and therefore popular I guess, whatever that means, but he is not asking for nudes, watching porn or manipulating anyone. He's a nice, good kid. Some of them still exist. And yes, I would know if he were doing these things as he has no social media and I very carefully monitor his phone.

My MS DS says it’s being athletic for the most part. He also mentioned looks and clothes but more as minimum requirements

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And do the same popular middle school kids stay popular in high school?

I have 12 (7th grade) and 14 (9th grade) year old boys.

My older son has a friend group consisting of smart athletic boys and he is in many academic extracurriculars. These boys are motivated and achievers. DS is an A+ student and always has been.

My younger son just started middle school and is not so interested in school. He currently has a mix of As, Bs and Cs. He seems much more interested in making new friends and hanging out with the cooler kids who seem more popular. In my opinion, these kids just seem like they do stupid things to gain attention.

What makes a kid popular?

Both kids have told me the popular kids go to parties and drink and do drugs. My high school kid doesn’t get invited to these parties (yet?). I’m glad he isn’t in that group. I do worry for my younger son because he seems much more interested in how social life than anything else.

For girls, its if you are slutty and for boys it's if you are athletic.

Wait if the girls are “slutty” who are they being “slutty” with if the boys are just innocent athletes?!?

Exactly. Can we please STOP the dated "girls are sluts" sh---? If the girls are SO ARE THE BOYS.

There are supposedly a few girls who get around and labeled sluts. DS told me that the boys on their middle school bus make fun of the fat girls and slutty girls and the girls cry on the bus. DS is a good kid and can’t imagine him saying this. I said he should stick up for the girls, especially the girl he knows and I am friends with mom. He said if he said something, those guys may target him instead. Sounds awful.

Wait wait. So you are saying the girls are sluts but the boys doing things with the girls are what?!? Do you hear yourself?!?!?

I can assure you even the nice boys are asking for nudes, watching porn, manipulating girls on social media, and then making fun of them.

I also know as my kids are all past middle school that most of the girls with reputations are based on rumors only. I saw it happen with one girl. Boys are really good with planting faces on bodies when a girl isn’t interested in them. That happened 3 years ago to a girl who finally filed harassment charges and won.

So the slutty girl narrative by boy moms is getting old.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In general, there are two categories of popular kids, and some kids overlap both categories

1. Kids who have a hook - they are athletic, attractive, have access because of wealth or connections, famous parents, etc.

2. Kids who are kind, have positive energy, are trustworthy and respect their friends.

Kids will be attracted to kids in both categories. But it’s helpful for them if you can show them the distinction between the types of popularity. They can decide how they want to treat and be treated by other kids.

I wish there were more of #2.
Some of the "popular" kids who have been mean to mine appear to have watched "mean girls" for instructions rather than as a cautionary tale.

Yeah, don’t we all! I’m PP and I use this paradigm for talking to my kids about other kids. Some kids are mean to other kids in an effort to stay relevant and popular, and I try to point out the difference between these kids and the ones who are genuinely nice and draw people to them. I explained this clumsily, but there are more nuanced and informed articles about it here. Category 2 are “positive pro social kids”.

https://socialsci.libretexts.org/Courses/Rio_Hondo/CD_106%3A_Child_Growth_and_Development_(Andrade)/12%3A_Middle_Childhood_-_Social_Emotional_Development/12.07%3A_Peer_Relationships

https://www.psychologytoday.com/us/blog/growing-friendships/201312/popular-kids

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And do the same popular middle school kids stay popular in high school?

I have 12 (7th grade) and 14 (9th grade) year old boys.

My older son has a friend group consisting of smart athletic boys and he is in many academic extracurriculars. These boys are motivated and achievers. DS is an A+ student and always has been.

My younger son just started middle school and is not so interested in school. He currently has a mix of As, Bs and Cs. He seems much more interested in making new friends and hanging out with the cooler kids who seem more popular. In my opinion, these kids just seem like they do stupid things to gain attention.

What makes a kid popular?

Both kids have told me the popular kids go to parties and drink and do drugs. My high school kid doesn’t get invited to these parties (yet?). I’m glad he isn’t in that group. I do worry for my younger son because he seems much more interested in how social life than anything else.

For girls, its if you are slutty and for boys it's if you are athletic.

Wait if the girls are “slutty” who are they being “slutty” with if the boys are just innocent athletes?!?

Exactly. Can we please STOP the dated "girls are sluts" sh---? If the girls are SO ARE THE BOYS.

There are supposedly a few girls who get around and labeled sluts. DS told me that the boys on their middle school bus make fun of the fat girls and slutty girls and the girls cry on the bus. DS is a good kid and can’t imagine him saying this. I said he should stick up for the girls, especially the girl he knows and I am friends with mom. He said if he said something, those guys may target him instead. Sounds awful.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In wealthier schools with steady communities, I also think the parents' social network can have some influence. My DD has some kids in her class who I don't think would be popular except that the kids have been in that school system since day 1, are on soccer teams with the other kids and so have been doing outings with them forever. All the connections and cute clothes can't make a kid popular from nowhere, but I have definitely noticed the network effect.

So popular mommy = popular kids ?

Ick.

NP. Yes. The social engineering starts at day one and just gets worse.

Must be pretty small schools? No one knows anyone else's parents in the 1000 kid middle schools.

My kids go to a 500-600 kid middle school with 3 grade school feeders. A lot of parents know each other. I knew a lot of the other feeder school parents from preschool, and neighborhood fb groups and just generally being one of those people who chats ppl up and grew up here. Not in a chummy way though

Anonymous wrote:Interesting how many people are saying popular kids are always athletes. Was not my experience growing up and not what I see with my kids. Sure some athletes are popular but some aren’t and some non-athletes are popular.

Middle school I agree it’s early developers and those who get in the mix with dating ans mixed gender friends and are “known”. Some of these kids burn out and by the end of middle school have burned too many bridges.

By high school it’s some of the same things but it’s much less important and obvious who is popular in a large high school. There are just different groups and some kids are more widely known by others for various reasons. If that’s popular, ok.

Also can’t under estimate how much looks start to matter post-puberty. I think that is the driving factor and not being an athlete. Good looking kids who kind of fit the norm of what is considered attractive at the moment get traction with the opposite gender and will be better known and be more “relevant” in high school. They use the word relevant and not popular..

This is spot on to what my high schooler tells me, down to the “known” and “relevant” terms.

Also this seems to cross over to area high schools. The “relevant” kids know the other relevant kids at the close by schools. Is this social media ? I can only guess. It’s like how some adults are good at networking I guess.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And do the same popular middle school kids stay popular in high school?

I have 12 (7th grade) and 14 (9th grade) year old boys.

My older son has a friend group consisting of smart athletic boys and he is in many academic extracurriculars. These boys are motivated and achievers. DS is an A+ student and always has been.

My younger son just started middle school and is not so interested in school. He currently has a mix of As, Bs and Cs. He seems much more interested in making new friends and hanging out with the cooler kids who seem more popular. In my opinion, these kids just seem like they do stupid things to gain attention.

What makes a kid popular?

Both kids have told me the popular kids go to parties and drink and do drugs. My high school kid doesn’t get invited to these parties (yet?). I’m glad he isn’t in that group. I do worry for my younger son because he seems much more interested in how social life than anything else.

For girls, its if you are slutty and for boys it's if you are athletic.

Wait if the girls are “slutty” who are they being “slutty” with if the boys are just innocent athletes?!?

Exactly. Can we please STOP the dated "girls are sluts" sh---? If the girls are SO ARE THE BOYS.

According to my middle schooler, popular girls wear crops tops, makeup, and spend a lot of time in the school bathroom. She also said they’re nice to their friends only.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:And do the same popular middle school kids stay popular in high school?

I have 12 (7th grade) and 14 (9th grade) year old boys.

My older son has a friend group consisting of smart athletic boys and he is in many academic extracurriculars. These boys are motivated and achievers. DS is an A+ student and always has been.

My younger son just started middle school and is not so interested in school. He currently has a mix of As, Bs and Cs. He seems much more interested in making new friends and hanging out with the cooler kids who seem more popular. In my opinion, these kids just seem like they do stupid things to gain attention.

What makes a kid popular?

Both kids have told me the popular kids go to parties and drink and do drugs. My high school kid doesn’t get invited to these parties (yet?). I’m glad he isn’t in that group. I do worry for my younger son because he seems much more interested in how social life than anything else.

For girls, its if you are slutty and for boys it's if you are athletic.

Wait if the girls are “slutty” who are they being “slutty” with if the boys are just innocent athletes?!?