Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posts like this are so wretched and smug. Implicit in them is that lives without kids are empty and meaningless and that being a parent makes you a superior human being.

In fact, many parents are among the most selfish people on the planet because they only think of themselves and their kids as an extension of themselves.

We have four adult children. Three are married, and two of the three have children. The third married child doesn’t want kids, and the fourth doesn’t want either to get married or have kids. All four are happy with their choices and supportive of their siblings’ choices, and we are equally proud of all four. But there is no question that the two without children are doing more to help the broader society than the two with children - or, for that matter, than we ever could because we had children ourselves.

So, bottom line: stop patting yourself on the back and stop implicitly judging everyone else. You’re not that special.

I think OP is just sharing how she feels about her own life, and is not passing judgment on anyone else. But I'll pass judgment: I don't know you or your life, but you sound absolutely miserable because happy people don't take this much offense at what was a pretty innocuous and personal observation.

+1 this is the parenting forum on a parenting site. It's fine to say it here. I mostly agree with OP but would not say it to my childless friend. My kid is curled up sleeping next to me this morning and it's the best.

Anonymous wrote:Thank you for this thread, it's a nice reminder of the blessings of living a life childfree.

I work with kids, spend lots of time with them, love them a lot and am grateful that my work is about building healthy kids to meet the future.

But I'm also very grateful my life belongs to me and especially that I don't have to grapple with parental anxiety, which I think some people are nearly crippled by.

I have boatloads of existential anxiety, but doom and gloom are much easier to take when it's only you who will be facing the post-apocalyptic world.

It's funny that OP was accused of being smug and mean but this is apparently fine

Thank you for this thread, it's a nice reminder of the blessings of living a life childfree.

I work with kids, spend lots of time with them, love them a lot and am grateful that my work is about building healthy kids to meet the future.

But I'm also very grateful my life belongs to me and especially that I don't have to grapple with parental anxiety, which I think some people are nearly crippled by.

I have boatloads of existential anxiety, but doom and gloom are much easier to take when it's only you who will be facing the post-apocalyptic world.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posts like this are so wretched and smug. Implicit in them is that lives without kids are empty and meaningless and that being a parent makes you a superior human being.

In fact, many parents are among the most selfish people on the planet because they only think of themselves and their kids as an extension of themselves.

We have four adult children. Three are married, and two of the three have children. The third married child doesn’t want kids, and the fourth doesn’t want either to get married or have kids. All four are happy with their choices and supportive of their siblings’ choices, and we are equally proud of all four. But there is no question that the two without children are doing more to help the broader society than the two with children - or, for that matter, than we ever could because we had children ourselves.

So, bottom line: stop patting yourself on the back and stop implicitly judging everyone else. You’re not that special.

Op here. I wrote this post after reading Fleishman is in trouble, with the character Libby pining for her life before kids and missing who she was before that. I just truly could not relate to what she was missing or why she was so unhappy, hence the post.

I felt the same about Fleischman is in trouble. There’s definitely an idea in the cultural zeitgeist (for upper middle class women) that parenting is oppressive drudgery. I don’t doubt that some women experience that, and I think they should feel able to express those feelings. But I love my life as a parent. (But I’m also glad I got to experience relatively carefree young adulthood too.)

I’m going to blame gentle parenting for why parenting is oppressive drudgery. Redirecting and talking it out to a 2/3/4 year old is hard. Especially when you know that yelling would immediately work.

Sometimes gentle parenting is a drag but yelling doesn't sound fun to me. My parents were yellers and they were completely miserable for my entire childhood.

To me the biggest guest drag is how now, expressing any unhappiness with your kids or parenting can evoke judgment from others. Every parent has bad days and it should be okay to say "I'm so fed up with my kids right now." But I've learned to only express that feeling to a handful of close friends. If I say it to my mom, sister, or many parents in our broader circle, I get judgment or even a lecture. People can be SO tedious about parenting now.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posts like this are so wretched and smug. Implicit in them is that lives without kids are empty and meaningless and that being a parent makes you a superior human being.

In fact, many parents are among the most selfish people on the planet because they only think of themselves and their kids as an extension of themselves.

We have four adult children. Three are married, and two of the three have children. The third married child doesn’t want kids, and the fourth doesn’t want either to get married or have kids. All four are happy with their choices and supportive of their siblings’ choices, and we are equally proud of all four. But there is no question that the two without children are doing more to help the broader society than the two with children - or, for that matter, than we ever could because we had children ourselves.

So, bottom line: stop patting yourself on the back and stop implicitly judging everyone else. You’re not that special.

Op here. I wrote this post after reading Fleishman is in trouble, with the character Libby pining for her life before kids and missing who she was before that. I just truly could not relate to what she was missing or why she was so unhappy, hence the post.

I felt the same about Fleischman is in trouble. There’s definitely an idea in the cultural zeitgeist (for upper middle class women) that parenting is oppressive drudgery. I don’t doubt that some women experience that, and I think they should feel able to express those feelings. But I love my life as a parent. (But I’m also glad I got to experience relatively carefree young adulthood too.)

I’m going to blame gentle parenting for why parenting is oppressive drudgery. Redirecting and talking it out to a 2/3/4 year old is hard. Especially when you know that yelling would immediately work.

I don’t think it’s gentle parenting but instead it’s hands on obsessive parenting. Parents used to be able to send their kids out to play all day. When neighborhood women got together the focus wasn’t kids. It was hanging out and the kids should play and stay out of their hair. Every single thing seems to now 100% revolve around kids if you have them. The notion of kids being seen but not heard is no longer acceptable. Only way you can get away from this is if you are wealthy enough to only associate with people with FT help.

The wildest thing to me is grown 40 year old women who spend their days playing with young kids. I recently met a woman at the playground who pretended to be a monster and chased her kid around the playground for a good 30 minutes. The child would order her around and announce the next game. It seemed like the mom worked for the child to provide entertainment. I realize this might sound nice but watching it all transpire in person made me realize we aren’t doing our kids any favors. We are teaching them we don’t have a life besides catering to their every need.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Pre-kids, on a 3day weekend I'd have taken off either Friday or Tuesday to stretch to four days, and gone to Mexico or Hawaii or Miami or somewhere. I'd have eaten amazing meals on the beach, danced until 2am, gone to a spa, done yoga on the beach, all weekend.

But now I have kids. Yesterday my kid had a meltdown because she didn't like her ballet bun. Then we went to brunch with two small children and then a 4 yr old's birthday party, before DD had a sleepover with three friends. We were up at 7am to work out and get dressed before making an avalanche of pancakes, eggs and cut up fruit. When one girl's parents arrived to pick her up her little sister darted upstairs and hid and four adults spent 15 minutes looking for a 5 yr old. Sorry - I'd rather be in Mexico on the beach.

+1. I am happy for people like OP. Because to me child rearing is drudgery. Many people feel like this and the proof is that you have to pay someone to watch your child. I love my children but do not think feeding them, changing diapers, carpooling, disciplining, and attending kid birthday parties is fun. If I didn’t have kids then this weekend I would have gone skiing, enjoyed nice restaurants and got plenty of sleep. Still glad I have a family but can’t understand someone who really thinks having kids is fun. I’m sure if you asked a woman in 1850 if child rearing is enjoyable she would have thought it was a dumb question. It’s like asking if working in the mines is fun.

Maybe I enjoy what you think of as drudgery. I love the joy in the mundane every day activities like walks in the park chatting with my kid as we make dinner together, watching her play with her toys in the bath, baking cookies and reading books together in bed. When they were younger I also really liked breastfeeding and felt so connected.

In contrast, I generally don’t like what is typically seen as fun stuff like boozy brunches, skiiing, staying up late and partying.

This all sounds hormonal imho. Pre-kids would you really enjoy watching someone play with toys in the bath or reading books together? None of what you described is FUN, especially not breastfeeding.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posts like this are so wretched and smug. Implicit in them is that lives without kids are empty and meaningless and that being a parent makes you a superior human being.

In fact, many parents are among the most selfish people on the planet because they only think of themselves and their kids as an extension of themselves.

We have four adult children. Three are married, and two of the three have children. The third married child doesn’t want kids, and the fourth doesn’t want either to get married or have kids. All four are happy with their choices and supportive of their siblings’ choices, and we are equally proud of all four. But there is no question that the two without children are doing more to help the broader society than the two with children - or, for that matter, than we ever could because we had children ourselves.

So, bottom line: stop patting yourself on the back and stop implicitly judging everyone else. You’re not that special.

Op here. I wrote this post after reading Fleishman is in trouble, with the character Libby pining for her life before kids and missing who she was before that. I just truly could not relate to what she was missing or why she was so unhappy, hence the post.

I felt the same about Fleischman is in trouble. There’s definitely an idea in the cultural zeitgeist (for upper middle class women) that parenting is oppressive drudgery. I don’t doubt that some women experience that, and I think they should feel able to express those feelings. But I love my life as a parent. (But I’m also glad I got to experience relatively carefree young adulthood too.)

I’m going to blame gentle parenting for why parenting is oppressive drudgery. Redirecting and talking it out to a 2/3/4 year old is hard. Especially when you know that yelling would immediately work.

Love my kids but I really miss pre kids life. Things I miss:
-traveling overseas. Tiny kids make this unenjoyable and grandparents aren’t willing babysitters
-spending $$$ on our hobby with our instructor. Dh and I loved our hobby. We can’t afford a babysitter plus our hobby anymore though (plus all the regular daycare and kid expenses)
-eating in front of the tv. We eat at the dining table to teach the kids manners. It’s joyless and painful every night.
-sleeping in. We have great kids who let us sleep until 8-9am but I miss more.
-skiing. I’ve been either pregnant or caring for babies for like 10 years. And my youngest is 2. Why don’t ski slopes have daycares? I’d love to go skiing! And be able to teach the older kids how to ski.

My pre kids life was awesome. We waited until 30 for kids so we fully enjoyed our 20s. There’s a seasons to life. I really love my baby snuggles. And I loved pregnancy so much too.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posts like this are so wretched and smug. Implicit in them is that lives without kids are empty and meaningless and that being a parent makes you a superior human being.

In fact, many parents are among the most selfish people on the planet because they only think of themselves and their kids as an extension of themselves.

We have four adult children. Three are married, and two of the three have children. The third married child doesn’t want kids, and the fourth doesn’t want either to get married or have kids. All four are happy with their choices and supportive of their siblings’ choices, and we are equally proud of all four. But there is no question that the two without children are doing more to help the broader society than the two with children - or, for that matter, than we ever could because we had children ourselves.

So, bottom line: stop patting yourself on the back and stop implicitly judging everyone else. You’re not that special.

Op here. I wrote this post after reading Fleishman is in trouble, with the character Libby pining for her life before kids and missing who she was before that. I just truly could not relate to what she was missing or why she was so unhappy, hence the post.

I felt the same about Fleischman is in trouble. There’s definitely an idea in the cultural zeitgeist (for upper middle class women) that parenting is oppressive drudgery. I don’t doubt that some women experience that, and I think they should feel able to express those feelings. But I love my life as a parent. (But I’m also glad I got to experience relatively carefree young adulthood too.)

I also feel this way. I love parenting so much and truly enjoy it as a whole. I can’t relate to the messaging that I’m supposed to be miserable, annoyed, and wish I was childless.

Do you work out of the house full time, OP?

If not, that might be why.

Anonymous wrote:They are 18 and 22 now and have enriched my life beyond measure. I feel life began when they were born. I only hate the anxiety for their well-being. That is the hardest part.

I think I am going to vomit

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posts like this are so wretched and smug. Implicit in them is that lives without kids are empty and meaningless and that being a parent makes you a superior human being.

In fact, many parents are among the most selfish people on the planet because they only think of themselves and their kids as an extension of themselves.

We have four adult children. Three are married, and two of the three have children. The third married child doesn’t want kids, and the fourth doesn’t want either to get married or have kids. All four are happy with their choices and supportive of their siblings’ choices, and we are equally proud of all four. But there is no question that the two without children are doing more to help the broader society than the two with children - or, for that matter, than we ever could because we had children ourselves.

So, bottom line: stop patting yourself on the back and stop implicitly judging everyone else. You’re not that special.

Op here. I wrote this post after reading Fleishman is in trouble, with the character Libby pining for her life before kids and missing who she was before that. I just truly could not relate to what she was missing or why she was so unhappy, hence the post.

I felt the same about Fleischman is in trouble. There’s definitely an idea in the cultural zeitgeist (for upper middle class women) that parenting is oppressive drudgery. I don’t doubt that some women experience that, and I think they should feel able to express those feelings. But I love my life as a parent. (But I’m also glad I got to experience relatively carefree young adulthood too.)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Posts like this are so wretched and smug. Implicit in them is that lives without kids are empty and meaningless and that being a parent makes you a superior human being.

In fact, many parents are among the most selfish people on the planet because they only think of themselves and their kids as an extension of themselves.

We have four adult children. Three are married, and two of the three have children. The third married child doesn’t want kids, and the fourth doesn’t want either to get married or have kids. All four are happy with their choices and supportive of their siblings’ choices, and we are equally proud of all four. But there is no question that the two without children are doing more to help the broader society than the two with children - or, for that matter, than we ever could because we had children ourselves.

So, bottom line: stop patting yourself on the back and stop implicitly judging everyone else. You’re not that special.

Op here. I wrote this post after reading Fleishman is in trouble, with the character Libby pining for her life before kids and missing who she was before that. I just truly could not relate to what she was missing or why she was so unhappy, hence the post.

I feel like more a whole fully realized version of myself post kids. I also can not relate to the idea that I’ve “lost myself” I having them. Quite the opposite.

It’s easier to maintain yourself if you have more disposable income….there are parents who struggle.

I miss sleep. I really miss it. Ive rapidly aged. Both pre and post kids are good, just different phases of life. Everyone has phases…kids or no kids. Im not 20 anymore whether i have kids or not.

I miss being 25 and being in a phase of life where it felt completely appropriate to be blissfully focused on myself. And having my whole life ahead of me.

I miss sleep and free time, but I’m very happy having children. I don’t “miss” my pre-children life in the sense that I would trade any of it in, and am enjoying this phase of life with small kids.