Anonymous
01/14/2024 14:51
Subject: Re:How important is physics?
Anonymous wrote:It is really hard to get physics in if you are doing an IB diploma---how have people gone about this?
Why would it be hard? It's one of the IB courses offered.
Anonymous
01/14/2024 14:43
Subject: Re:How important is physics?
I personally think Physics is one of the most important classes to take in High School because it teaches you how to solve problems when all the information isn't neatly handed to you. Also, it can be the class that makes students consider being an engineer. Don't have to take the calculus version - Algebra based will be enough but I wouldn't recommend skipping.
Anonymous
01/14/2024 14:19
Subject: Re:How important is physics?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:It is really hard to get physics in if you are doing an IB diploma---how have people gone about this?
Our kid just took regular Physics outside the IB diploma.
This is my beef with IB programs. Only option is to do two years of physics by taking it as your IB science. It’s odd. And agree with making students take physics outside of IB. I think it is part of being an educated citizen. But clearly others disagree.
Anonymous
01/14/2024 13:53
Subject: Re:How important is physics?
Anonymous wrote:It is really hard to get physics in if you are doing an IB diploma---how have people gone about this?
Our kid just took regular Physics outside the IB diploma.
Anonymous
01/14/2024 12:18
Subject: Re:How important is physics?
It is really hard to get physics in if you are doing an IB diploma---how have people gone about this?
Anonymous
01/13/2024 16:20
Subject: Re:How important is physics?
Wow, I had no idea. I thought every kid aiming for even a moderately selective college would take Physics and the main question is whether you would take it as an AP/IB course or not. At our FCPS high school it still seems to be the norm to take physics if you are shooting for a competitive college (and by competitive I just mean UVA/WM/VT or OOS equivalent).
Anonymous
01/13/2024 15:14
Subject: How important is physics?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think it is strange to go through high school and not take a basic course of bio, Chem, and physics. But people seem to be forgoing physics more and more. My kids’ school requires physics. And I’m happy about it. It’s the most fundamental of all sciences. An educated citizen should know a little bit about it.
My honors high school physics course was badly done and boring. I retained nothing from it. I was exposed to physics but a lot more content stuck from Earth Science, Biology, and Chemistry. In college, for my science distribution requirements, I chose a Genetics elective for science majors and Chemistry and Public Policy (easy class but great teacher and fascinating course material....sort of like studying global warming wouid be today).
I have 2 male PhD physicists in my immediate family, btw. We have a gender split on this interest.
My senior only had the minimum Physics required (1 out of 4 semesters of 9th grade "expose to all sciences" survey course). He took AP Environmental Science. Was going to take AP Bio but due to schedule changes could not get that and is taking AP Stats and AP Calc AB.
I would recommend Physics for pre-med, science, Comp Sci, and Engineering majors. I doubt it matters for many others. At the high school level, it seems mainly to be a check-the-box class for the quantitatively adept to continue demonstrating their A-getting capabilities. (Mini-weed-out class for straight-A students).
Wow. Way to insult kids who take a single year of what is the most fundamental of all sciences. Maybe they just want a well rounded education in all the basic sciences. Jeez.
PP. Didn't insult anyone. "Matters" here is in the OP's context of "Will it hurt my DD's chances for admission if she doesn't take physics". Don't worry, the entire discipline of physics will not be harmed by my perception of whether it's useful or fun to take in high school. My husband enjoyed it in college. And I have physicists in my family...so I'm very, very used to hearing about how wonderful it is.
It's impossible to study everything in high school. I prefer curriculums to have a wide range of electives. I would rather have had organic chemistry than physics senior year but I thought taking physics was the right thing to do because it was the default senior science class at my school. I reject that kind of unquestioning attitude now. I would have been better off reading a book or watching a science docuseries about physics, even though I got As.
This kind of protective reaction towards physics is exactly what the OP is worried about. That her child will be disadvantaged in the admissions process or not be able to live a normal UMC life because DC was not exposed to high school physics.
Physics thanks you for your defense of its importance!
Oh please. You just said physics is a “check the box” class for nerds. I mean, how much more dismissive can you be?
Women physicists are awesome. We need more of them. I am sorry to hear about the gender split in your family but it is all too common.
PP. Two people seem to be misunderstanding me, so I'll respond. "Check the box" to me means you have to do it, even though you may or may not want to. That it's an accepted, known default. That doesn't make any value judgment about whether people like the class or want to take it. Or if they are nerds. I actually said "quantitatively adept" and "straight A students".
In a US high school, 4 years of "English" or "ELA" is pretty default. I also think that the 3-4 year foreign language requirement to get into good colleges is a "check-box". Some love foreign language, some hate it. Doesn't matter...it's socially enforced. Even though I personally like foreign language study, I feel college-bound students could benefit from having more true freedom to pursue other subjects.
If students are on a college track, it used to be pretty default to take physics...therefore check the box. At my high school, everyone on the college track took it. I do think some were hoping that their peers would get A minuses and so fall out of the running for valedictorian. In the DMV now, you have more sophisticated ways to disguise this competition...like weighted grades coupled with extremely rich AP class offerings...that breadth is not so common in other places with less regional affluence. There are tons of threads on this site that demonstrate parents are concerned about course selection for purposes of college admission vs. love of the subject. Do you really think a lot of students are concerned about abstract scientific well-roundedness vs. getting in and surviving at their future college majors?
If, as some people are saying, or fearing, physics must be on the transcript to get into a certain school, to get into or graduate from a specific major, then it's a weed out course. That's a decision that colleges have made. At one of the colleges I'm familiar with, physics was a weed out course for pre-meds.
So...back to OP's question...does her child need to take physics in high school to get into the desired colleges and business major. The answer appears to be no in qualified circumstances. That is not a statement about whether the class is fun, makes a person more well-rounded, is definitely essential, etc. I personally did not like my senior year physics class so I'm an advocate for more curriculum freedom. If I ever need more physics understanding, I can look it up the same way I research anything else not taught in high school. That's not a dismissive attitude, just practical.
OK, now if anyone is still mad about my opinion, and wants to make physics cooler to young girls, there's a recent kids' book called "Queen of Physics" that's quite interesting. Link below mentions this. I bought a copy of it because I have a feeling my grandpa probably worked with or adjacent to that person.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/blogs/smithsonian-education/2023/08/02/sharing-the-inspirational-stories-of-innovative-women-on-your-school-bookshelf/
Despite having all these physicists in your family, you do not seem to understand why it’s important to get a feel of how physics combines reasoning, math, and real life observations/problems for all educated citizens - not just those who have shown aptitude before high school. Get rid of all requirements so that you can just follow your passion is a sure fire way to have a fractured society that doesn’t understand the need for different types of people and different types of skills. And also, the chance the discover that despite never having been a “science kid”, you might just fall in love with the critical and structure thinking needed to understand physics.
Let’s say we are talking about onshoring manufacturing of semiconductor components (CHIPs and Science Act). If every American had some exposure to physics, they might have some understanding of the complexity in training a workforce to be able to do this. They might have a better informed opinion on the Taiwan/China issue. They might be resistant to being scared by (either side of) the nuclear fission arguments. They might be willing to invest in and have the patience to wait for fusion reactors. They might be able to formulate an opinion on whether we should have more particle accelerators and advanced lasers in this country rather than teaming with allies. Having people in our society who can manipulate physics is critical to maintaining and growing our quality of life. But if you don’t understand anything about how physicists process information, how they analyze and develop their ideas and how they are trained, you have no way of evaluating what they are saying.
All STEM kids should take 4 years of English (at some level), and 4 years of history or a social science even if they don’t love it. They should take foreign language. They should take bio, chem and physics. They should have an art requirement. And colleges should give extra points to the kids who take the time to make themselves into knowledgeable citizens rather than trying to get out of the basics.
I just disagree with your approach to education at the k-12 level.
Anonymous
01/13/2024 14:35
Subject: How important is physics?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Who doesn’t remember doing the egg drop project in their HS physics class? That was so fun. I forget the physics behind it though - something similar to how airbags work in collisions
Did not have the egg drop project.
Also did not do the bridge-building project that is discussed in the book about Walt Whitman.
I vaguely remember a lab involving electrical circuits, a few bad science jokes, and that's it. Also that our main curriculum resource was a Schaum's Outline. We learned and were tested on lots of equations that promptly drained out of my memory after the course ended. It was indeed like a math class. The teacher did not seem bad...he was competent and funny.
This was an Honors class at a "good school" in a town where many fathers were engineers. Long enough ago that "engineer mothers" were not a recognizable population. Gen X.
You are lucky to have had an interesting class.
Physics at the introductory level does not have to be just like an applied math class. It can be conceptual in nature. That is the whole point of AP Physics 1. The focus is on conceptual physics more than on mathematical calculations. Kids who do well in it have strong critical thinking and abstract reasoning skills
Anonymous
01/13/2024 13:31
Subject: How important is physics?
My DD who struggles in math took regular physics and AP bio junior year, and anatomy and physiology senior year. DS who was good at math took AP Physics 1 junior year and oceanography senior year. They were not banished from college for these choices. (DD was admitted to Indiana and Minnesota, DS to UMD, Rutgers, Indiana). AP Physics got DS out of taking a lab science gen ed in college.
Anonymous
01/13/2024 12:54
Subject: How important is physics?
Anonymous wrote:Even the Golf Course Management major at UMD requires college Physics class.
https://academiccatalog.umd.edu/undergraduate/colleges-schools/agriculture-natural-resources/plant-sciences-landscape-architecture/plant-sciences-major/#requirementstext
I don't understand how UMD is hard to get into but then a bunch of students major in Golf Course Management.
PP again from physics family who doesn't like it herself. I actually understand this use of a physics requirement. And I have an in-law who got this degree from a different university in another state.
The Golf Management degree is basically a business management degree with a sports focus and an ag school type focus on crop science (grass).
Once you have a four year degree, you have to have science distribution requirements. Physics is logical here because of the nature of golf. Terrain design plus the golf ball as a struck object. Chemistry might ne theoretically useful for understanding the chemicals you work with but assuming they all come preformulated, the terrain and biomechanics are way more central. Biology usually covers things that a course manager doesn't control...like photosynthesis.
Anonymous
01/13/2024 12:01
Subject: How important is physics?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think it is strange to go through high school and not take a basic course of bio, Chem, and physics. But people seem to be forgoing physics more and more. My kids’ school requires physics. And I’m happy about it. It’s the most fundamental of all sciences. An educated citizen should know a little bit about it.
My honors high school physics course was badly done and boring. I retained nothing from it. I was exposed to physics but a lot more content stuck from Earth Science, Biology, and Chemistry. In college, for my science distribution requirements, I chose a Genetics elective for science majors and Chemistry and Public Policy (easy class but great teacher and fascinating course material....sort of like studying global warming wouid be today).
I have 2 male PhD physicists in my immediate family, btw. We have a gender split on this interest.
My senior only had the minimum Physics required (1 out of 4 semesters of 9th grade "expose to all sciences" survey course). He took AP Environmental Science. Was going to take AP Bio but due to schedule changes could not get that and is taking AP Stats and AP Calc AB.
I would recommend Physics for pre-med, science, Comp Sci, and Engineering majors. I doubt it matters for many others. At the high school level, it seems mainly to be a check-the-box class for the quantitatively adept to continue demonstrating their A-getting capabilities. (Mini-weed-out class for straight-A students).
Wow. Way to insult kids who take a single year of what is the most fundamental of all sciences. Maybe they just want a well rounded education in all the basic sciences. Jeez.
PP. Didn't insult anyone. "Matters" here is in the OP's context of "Will it hurt my DD's chances for admission if she doesn't take physics". Don't worry, the entire discipline of physics will not be harmed by my perception of whether it's useful or fun to take in high school. My husband enjoyed it in college. And I have physicists in my family...so I'm very, very used to hearing about how wonderful it is.
It's impossible to study everything in high school. I prefer curriculums to have a wide range of electives. I would rather have had organic chemistry than physics senior year but I thought taking physics was the right thing to do because it was the default senior science class at my school. I reject that kind of unquestioning attitude now. I would have been better off reading a book or watching a science docuseries about physics, even though I got As.
This kind of protective reaction towards physics is exactly what the OP is worried about. That her child will be disadvantaged in the admissions process or not be able to live a normal UMC life because DC was not exposed to high school physics.
Physics thanks you for your defense of its importance!
Oh please. You just said physics is a “check the box” class for nerds. I mean, how much more dismissive can you be?
Women physicists are awesome. We need more of them. I am sorry to hear about the gender split in your family but it is all too common.
PP. Two people seem to be misunderstanding me, so I'll respond. "Check the box" to me means you have to do it, even though you may or may not want to. That it's an accepted, known default. That doesn't make any value judgment about whether people like the class or want to take it. Or if they are nerds. I actually said "quantitatively adept" and "straight A students".
In a US high school, 4 years of "English" or "ELA" is pretty default. I also think that the 3-4 year foreign language requirement to get into good colleges is a "check-box". Some love foreign language, some hate it. Doesn't matter...it's socially enforced. Even though I personally like foreign language study, I feel college-bound students could benefit from having more true freedom to pursue other subjects.
If students are on a college track, it used to be pretty default to take physics...therefore check the box. At my high school, everyone on the college track took it. I do think some were hoping that their peers would get A minuses and so fall out of the running for valedictorian. In the DMV now, you have more sophisticated ways to disguise this competition...like weighted grades coupled with extremely rich AP class offerings...that breadth is not so common in other places with less regional affluence. There are tons of threads on this site that demonstrate parents are concerned about course selection for purposes of college admission vs. love of the subject. Do you really think a lot of students are concerned about abstract scientific well-roundedness vs. getting in and surviving at their future college majors?
If, as some people are saying, or fearing, physics must be on the transcript to get into a certain school, to get into or graduate from a specific major, then it's a weed out course. That's a decision that colleges have made. At one of the colleges I'm familiar with, physics was a weed out course for pre-meds.
So...back to OP's question...does her child need to take physics in high school to get into the desired colleges and business major. The answer appears to be no in qualified circumstances. That is not a statement about whether the class is fun, makes a person more well-rounded, is definitely essential, etc. I personally did not like my senior year physics class so I'm an advocate for more curriculum freedom. If I ever need more physics understanding, I can look it up the same way I research anything else not taught in high school. That's not a dismissive attitude, just practical.
OK, now if anyone is still mad about my opinion, and wants to make physics cooler to young girls, there's a recent kids' book called "Queen of Physics" that's quite interesting. Link below mentions this. I bought a copy of it because I have a feeling my grandpa probably worked with or adjacent to that person.
https://www.smithsonianmag.com/blogs/smithsonian-education/2023/08/02/sharing-the-inspirational-stories-of-innovative-women-on-your-school-bookshelf/
Anonymous
01/13/2024 09:35
Subject: How important is physics?
Anonymous wrote:Need to take two years of sciences.
This is incorrect. Most high schools require at least three years of science to graduate. Most highly selective colleges want to see four years of science.
Anonymous
01/13/2024 09:06
Subject: How important is physics?
Need to take two years of sciences.
Anonymous
01/13/2024 08:41
Subject: How important is physics?
Anonymous wrote:Bio, chem, physics, 4 years language, are pretty much the basics for college.
Up to the student whether they want to do regular, honors, or AP.
Physics is usually the fun course though. Will depend on the teacher. But wouldn't avoid. Not taking physics is going to take away a lot of opportunities.
+1.
This is the usual or customary set, along with US History, World History, and English every year. At many college admissions offices, but not all, if any of these are missing then it raises a yellow flag or red flag about why DC did not take one or more of that set. It is difficult for anyone here to know precisely how any particular school would view a missing course, but admissions chances pretty clearly would be better if one had all of the above.
Quoted poster above is correct that regular physics would look much better to Admissions folks than no physics at all.
The ONLY exception I can think of to the science expectation would be someone applying narrowly to a college of fine arts, and not applying to any broader arts & sciences college or arts & letters college, with a clear stated interest in being an Art or Music or Theatre major.
Anonymous
01/12/2024 22:27
Subject: How important is physics?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I think it is strange to go through high school and not take a basic course of bio, Chem, and physics. But people seem to be forgoing physics more and more. My kids’ school requires physics. And I’m happy about it. It’s the most fundamental of all sciences. An educated citizen should know a little bit about it.
Agree. All people should have taken at least a standard level physics class in high school to be a nominally educated person.
Not at all. Basic physics concepts are always covered in general science classes, usually in middle school. I mean, I could counter your argument by saying taking a foreign language through the AP level is necessary for "all people" to be nominally educated. Which is what my own kids did.
So depressing. Physics built our modern world. And you think having had a few concepts in middle school is sufficient for you to be an educated citizen. I don’t think everyone needs to be a STEM major. And every kid should follow their interests. That being said, there should be some non negotiable basics in HS and physics is definitely one of them.
Agreed. Not requiring at least a basic Physics course for high school is nothing but a race to the bottom.
It's a core course. Even my SN kid took it.