Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Probably a European countries like Germany, Denmark, Sweden etc. Certainly not the UK. My English family and friends complain nonstop how horrid the NHS is now.

Ask them if they want the US healthcare system where we pay $1400/month for a family of 4 with a high deductible plan.

My spouse's family is from the UK. They also complain about the NHS, but then we start telling them how much ours cost, and they shut up. UK has private insurance and one can pay out of pocket for private care if they want to. My SIL did this for a specific procedure. It was a fraction of what it would cost here.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We lived in France and were on national healthcare with a 75 euro a month top up plan.

One thing that they had that I loved is a national doctor appointment booking website that most doctors used. You can search specialty, neighborhood, languages, etc. by availability. Because of this, we could always get a same day appointment. (We were in Paris.) Most doctors would also upload any health records from the visit to this account so you always have them.

We also had a home doctor visit service for weekend and overnight health issues that didn’t warrant an ER. They also offered off-hour telehealth appointments. It basically was an urgent care, but at your home.

As long as you stay within the system, there is also basically no paperwork to deal with. All of your bills (which usually ran 25-50 max) would get automatically sent to the health service and your linked top up insurance for reimbursement within 48 hours. Prescriptions too.

The negative:
If you go to the ER for something not super serious, waits can be long.
Their testing ages for screening exams like mammogram and colonoscopy are older than the US, so if you want to be screened earlier purely for your own peace of mind and not because if family history, you pay a couple hundred out of pocket.
Dermatologists were in short supply within the system.
Therapy was not easily reimbursed but psychiatrists were.
Doctors are paid less and there are health deserts in rural areas with not enough doctors.

I think I’d still choose the French system though. Never having to worry a medical bill would sink us was such a mental relief I swear it improved my health.

+1. My adult DD, with ties to both France and the US, preferred to live in France during the pandemic, where she knew that she had good healthcare and wouldn't go bankrupt or die because she didn't have enough money for treatment. It was a huge relief to her and everyone around her to know that she would be cared for and if the system got overwhelmed it would be handled in an equitable way - not just those with money or connections get care.

This is often repeated but do you know anyone personally who has gone bankrupt or didn’t have enough money for treatment?

I know the statistic about bankruptcies but it’s misleading because it simply means the person who filed bankruptcy had outstanding medical bills. It could even be a $50 copay. It’s like saying the people who filed bankruptcy did so from cell phone bills since they likely also owed a small amount to Verizon.

Seems like the number of people who 1) Don’t qualify for Medicaid 2) Don’t have employer provided healthcare or aren’t married to someone who does 3) Can’t afford to purchase a plan through the exchange is very low. 4) Is under 65 or over 26.

French wages on the other hand are much, so you’re likely better off in the US and simply finding a job that provides health insurance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We lived in France and were on national healthcare with a 75 euro a month top up plan.

One thing that they had that I loved is a national doctor appointment booking website that most doctors used. You can search specialty, neighborhood, languages, etc. by availability. Because of this, we could always get a same day appointment. (We were in Paris.) Most doctors would also upload any health records from the visit to this account so you always have them.

We also had a home doctor visit service for weekend and overnight health issues that didn’t warrant an ER. They also offered off-hour telehealth appointments. It basically was an urgent care, but at your home.

As long as you stay within the system, there is also basically no paperwork to deal with. All of your bills (which usually ran 25-50 max) would get automatically sent to the health service and your linked top up insurance for reimbursement within 48 hours. Prescriptions too.

The negative:
If you go to the ER for something not super serious, waits can be long.
Their testing ages for screening exams like mammogram and colonoscopy are older than the US, so if you want to be screened earlier purely for your own peace of mind and not because if family history, you pay a couple hundred out of pocket.
Dermatologists were in short supply within the system.
Therapy was not easily reimbursed but psychiatrists were.
Doctors are paid less and there are health deserts in rural areas with not enough doctors.

I think I’d still choose the French system though. Never having to worry a medical bill would sink us was such a mental relief I swear it improved my health.

+1. My adult DD, with ties to both France and the US, preferred to live in France during the pandemic, where she knew that she had good healthcare and wouldn't go bankrupt or die because she didn't have enough money for treatment. It was a huge relief to her and everyone around her to know that she would be cared for and if the system got overwhelmed it would be handled in an equitable way - not just those with money or connections get care.

This is often repeated but do you know anyone personally who has gone bankrupt or didn’t have enough money for treatment?

I know the statistic about bankruptcies but it’s misleading because it simply means the person who filed bankruptcy had outstanding medical bills. It could even be a $50 copay. It’s like saying the people who filed bankruptcy did so from cell phone bills since they likely also owed a small amount to Verizon.

Seems like the number of people who 1) Don’t qualify for Medicaid 2) Don’t have employer provided healthcare or aren’t married to someone who does 3) Can’t afford to purchase a plan through the exchange is very low. 4) Is under 65 or over 26.

French wages on the other hand are much, so you’re likely better off in the US and simply finding a job that provides health insurance.

Anonymous wrote:There have been a couple of comments asking if anyone actually knows someone who had gone bankrupt over healthcare costs.

I knew a couple (now both deceased) who had massive health care bills for the wife's cancer treatment. They were upper class and had insurance. I don't know the exact amount, but they owed something over $250,000. Due to their financial situation they were able to pay it over time without too much of an impact on their lifestyle, but for most people that would be extremely difficult or impossible.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We lived in France and were on national healthcare with a 75 euro a month top up plan.

One thing that they had that I loved is a national doctor appointment booking website that most doctors used. You can search specialty, neighborhood, languages, etc. by availability. Because of this, we could always get a same day appointment. (We were in Paris.) Most doctors would also upload any health records from the visit to this account so you always have them.

We also had a home doctor visit service for weekend and overnight health issues that didn’t warrant an ER. They also offered off-hour telehealth appointments. It basically was an urgent care, but at your home.

As long as you stay within the system, there is also basically no paperwork to deal with. All of your bills (which usually ran 25-50 max) would get automatically sent to the health service and your linked top up insurance for reimbursement within 48 hours. Prescriptions too.

The negative:
If you go to the ER for something not super serious, waits can be long.
Their testing ages for screening exams like mammogram and colonoscopy are older than the US, so if you want to be screened earlier purely for your own peace of mind and not because if family history, you pay a couple hundred out of pocket.
Dermatologists were in short supply within the system.
Therapy was not easily reimbursed but psychiatrists were.
Doctors are paid less and there are health deserts in rural areas with not enough doctors.

I think I’d still choose the French system though. Never having to worry a medical bill would sink us was such a mental relief I swear it improved my health.

We have lived in Europe as well and the US system seems to prioritise testing and preventive care and on an individual level, those make a difference in adverse outcomes- i.e. cancer screening which catch cancer early is great for that individual but on a societal level- which socialised medicine prioritises, it doesn't really do much. So the US spends more money on testing and screening without much impact to society. Of course if you are the one with cancer who was saved, you'd be all for it.

Every system has to ration care because there simply isn't enough to go around. Some countries try to do it on the basis of fairness or need. The United States chooses to ration it based on the ability to afford it.

Then how do you explain Medicaid? Medicare?

The US spends more on healthcare than any other country. Some of this can be attributed to the health of our citizens. But there’s also the fact that Americans may simply receive MORE healthcare. I’m not convinced the rationing here is to the same extent as other western countries.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We lived in France and were on national healthcare with a 75 euro a month top up plan.

One thing that they had that I loved is a national doctor appointment booking website that most doctors used. You can search specialty, neighborhood, languages, etc. by availability. Because of this, we could always get a same day appointment. (We were in Paris.) Most doctors would also upload any health records from the visit to this account so you always have them.

We also had a home doctor visit service for weekend and overnight health issues that didn’t warrant an ER. They also offered off-hour telehealth appointments. It basically was an urgent care, but at your home.

As long as you stay within the system, there is also basically no paperwork to deal with. All of your bills (which usually ran 25-50 max) would get automatically sent to the health service and your linked top up insurance for reimbursement within 48 hours. Prescriptions too.

The negative:
If you go to the ER for something not super serious, waits can be long.
Their testing ages for screening exams like mammogram and colonoscopy are older than the US, so if you want to be screened earlier purely for your own peace of mind and not because if family history, you pay a couple hundred out of pocket.
Dermatologists were in short supply within the system.
Therapy was not easily reimbursed but psychiatrists were.
Doctors are paid less and there are health deserts in rural areas with not enough doctors.

I think I’d still choose the French system though. Never having to worry a medical bill would sink us was such a mental relief I swear it improved my health.

+1. My adult DD, with ties to both France and the US, preferred to live in France during the pandemic, where she knew that she had good healthcare and wouldn't go bankrupt or die because she didn't have enough money for treatment. It was a huge relief to her and everyone around her to know that she would be cared for and if the system got overwhelmed it would be handled in an equitable way - not just those with money or connections get care.

This is often repeated but do you know anyone personally who has gone bankrupt or didn’t have enough money for treatment?

I know the statistic about bankruptcies but it’s misleading because it simply means the person who filed bankruptcy had outstanding medical bills. It could even be a $50 copay. It’s like saying the people who filed bankruptcy did so from cell phone bills since they likely also owed a small amount to Verizon.

Seems like the number of people who 1) Don’t qualify for Medicaid 2) Don’t have employer provided healthcare or aren’t married to someone who does 3) Can’t afford to purchase a plan through the exchange is very low. 4) Is under 65 or over 26.

French wages on the other hand are much, so you’re likely better off in the US and simply finding a job that provides health insurance.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We lived in France and were on national healthcare with a 75 euro a month top up plan.

One thing that they had that I loved is a national doctor appointment booking website that most doctors used. You can search specialty, neighborhood, languages, etc. by availability. Because of this, we could always get a same day appointment. (We were in Paris.) Most doctors would also upload any health records from the visit to this account so you always have them.

We also had a home doctor visit service for weekend and overnight health issues that didn’t warrant an ER. They also offered off-hour telehealth appointments. It basically was an urgent care, but at your home.

As long as you stay within the system, there is also basically no paperwork to deal with. All of your bills (which usually ran 25-50 max) would get automatically sent to the health service and your linked top up insurance for reimbursement within 48 hours. Prescriptions too.

The negative:
If you go to the ER for something not super serious, waits can be long.
Their testing ages for screening exams like mammogram and colonoscopy are older than the US, so if you want to be screened earlier purely for your own peace of mind and not because if family history, you pay a couple hundred out of pocket.
Dermatologists were in short supply within the system.
Therapy was not easily reimbursed but psychiatrists were.
Doctors are paid less and there are health deserts in rural areas with not enough doctors.

I think I’d still choose the French system though. Never having to worry a medical bill would sink us was such a mental relief I swear it improved my health.

We have lived in Europe as well and the US system seems to prioritise testing and preventive care and on an individual level, those make a difference in adverse outcomes- i.e. cancer screening which catch cancer early is great for that individual but on a societal level- which socialised medicine prioritises, it doesn't really do much. So the US spends more money on testing and screening without much impact to society. Of course if you are the one with cancer who was saved, you'd be all for it.

Every system has to ration care because there simply isn't enough to go around. Some countries try to do it on the basis of fairness or need. The United States chooses to ration it based on the ability to afford it.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We lived in France and were on national healthcare with a 75 euro a month top up plan.

One thing that they had that I loved is a national doctor appointment booking website that most doctors used. You can search specialty, neighborhood, languages, etc. by availability. Because of this, we could always get a same day appointment. (We were in Paris.) Most doctors would also upload any health records from the visit to this account so you always have them.

We also had a home doctor visit service for weekend and overnight health issues that didn’t warrant an ER. They also offered off-hour telehealth appointments. It basically was an urgent care, but at your home.

As long as you stay within the system, there is also basically no paperwork to deal with. All of your bills (which usually ran 25-50 max) would get automatically sent to the health service and your linked top up insurance for reimbursement within 48 hours. Prescriptions too.

The negative:
If you go to the ER for something not super serious, waits can be long.
Their testing ages for screening exams like mammogram and colonoscopy are older than the US, so if you want to be screened earlier purely for your own peace of mind and not because if family history, you pay a couple hundred out of pocket.
Dermatologists were in short supply within the system.
Therapy was not easily reimbursed but psychiatrists were.
Doctors are paid less and there are health deserts in rural areas with not enough doctors.

I think I’d still choose the French system though. Never having to worry a medical bill would sink us was such a mental relief I swear it improved my health.

+1. My adult DD, with ties to both France and the US, preferred to live in France during the pandemic, where she knew that she had good healthcare and wouldn't go bankrupt or die because she didn't have enough money for treatment. It was a huge relief to her and everyone around her to know that she would be cared for and if the system got overwhelmed it would be handled in an equitable way - not just those with money or connections get care.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:We lived in France and were on national healthcare with a 75 euro a month top up plan.

One thing that they had that I loved is a national doctor appointment booking website that most doctors used. You can search specialty, neighborhood, languages, etc. by availability. Because of this, we could always get a same day appointment. (We were in Paris.) Most doctors would also upload any health records from the visit to this account so you always have them.

We also had a home doctor visit service for weekend and overnight health issues that didn’t warrant an ER. They also offered off-hour telehealth appointments. It basically was an urgent care, but at your home.

As long as you stay within the system, there is also basically no paperwork to deal with. All of your bills (which usually ran 25-50 max) would get automatically sent to the health service and your linked top up insurance for reimbursement within 48 hours. Prescriptions too.

The negative:
If you go to the ER for something not super serious, waits can be long.
Their testing ages for screening exams like mammogram and colonoscopy are older than the US, so if you want to be screened earlier purely for your own peace of mind and not because if family history, you pay a couple hundred out of pocket.
Dermatologists were in short supply within the system.
Therapy was not easily reimbursed but psychiatrists were.
Doctors are paid less and there are health deserts in rural areas with not enough doctors.

I think I’d still choose the French system though. Never having to worry a medical bill would sink us was such a mental relief I swear it improved my health.

We have lived in Europe as well and the US system seems to prioritise testing and preventive care and on an individual level, those make a difference in adverse outcomes- i.e. cancer screening which catch cancer early is great for that individual but on a societal level- which socialised medicine prioritises, it doesn't really do much. So the US spends more money on testing and screening without much impact to society. Of course if you are the one with cancer who was saved, you'd be all for it.