Anonymous wrote:^ And often, if you indulge them 75% of the time by running around and being silly with them, they are willing to stay still when it really matters to you

What we are all saying, is that for a lot of kids thats not true! You can do EVERYTHING and be working your butt off 100% of the time and use all your tools and they may even be the absolutely best matched tools for that child - and they still will not comply "when it really matters". They will still be relentless in pushing every boundary or having big outbursts or whatver it is they do. There is no "if i put in x amount of the right work for them, i'll be able to get y behavior"

Anonymous wrote:Parenting coach here - all of the above is true!

It’s so exhausting parenting a strong willed child, or a neurodiverse child, that it can be hard to maintain some of the strategies that work well.

And also there are things that make it worse, and it’s almost impossible to be objective and see that in your own parenting.

The other issue is that it's hard to parent multiple kids in different ways and not build resentment between them. It's not like I got time to give undivided attention to one verse another. I had to pick something that worked for all as best I could.

^ And often, if you indulge them 75% of the time by running around and being silly with them, they are willing to stay still when it really matters to you

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you have some good points but it’s not as black and white as you are implying. Yes, every parent is trying their best, but some strategies are just not as effective and every parent has blind spots. I would absolutely rather be alerted to my blind spot than continue to struggle. So, I could turn your same question around and say, why are some parents so insecure and defensive that they assume that feedback is an attack on their parenting?

The best athletes in the world have multiple coaches and specialists who critique their performance every day. Authors have editors. Etc. Nobody is nailing it just through sheer effort, we all benefit from a feedback loop.

I don’t think the ugliness or mean tones are justified but I also don’t believe that every single kid who acts out is simply hopeless and just a harder kid. I’ve seen parents in real life who unknowingly cause or worsen their kids issues, despite the best of intentions!

Actually, I think the point is that not all parents have to give equal effort. Compliant/easy children are very forgiving in terms of parenting styles and techniques. Most will work decently with these kids. The more difficult kids are extremely unforgiving of different parenting techniques. Parents have to find the exact right one and be disciplined enough to be consistent 100% of the time. It is just not the same level of effort.

This. The problem on DCUM is that people with easy kids who don't have to work very hard at it will respond to threads posted by parents who are genuinely struggling and who want feedback and advice, who know that what they are doing isn't working and would like a gut check or a different perspective.

But too often the offered perspective is "just do X" because that's what people with easy kids do and it works, and they don't understand that the OP in those threads not only has already tried that, but also probably 6 other things, and consulted their pediatrician and talked to the teacher and read three books on the subject.

Some kids are just hard.

Who are these people? Pretty much every parent I know is working their a** off, even those with so-called “easy” kids. Parents of good, well behaved kids are probably working quite hard at it.

I was at my oldest’s soccer practice the other day and a mom sat next to me with her 2 and 4 year old calmly doing sticker books on a blanket the entire hour! Just sitting there happily! If I’d had my 2 and 4yo there it would have been hard work the whole time trying to keep them off the field, occupied with anything for more than 3 minutes etc etc. No amount of planning, good parenting, preparation, reward charts etc would make my kids do what those kids did.

I’m sure that parent is working hard in lots of ways, there’s endless things to worry about when parenting, but there are easy kids out there and I don’t have them.

It is normal for a kid to want to run around and it’s normal to have to be up and moving the entire time you are out in public with a toddler. And yes it is hard. It would never occur to me that it’s a bad thing though.

+1. The sticker toddlers who can stay still for hours are the atypical ones. Not saying that’s a bad thing. But it is totally normal for toddlers to want to run around.

I remember struggling because my 2/3 year old really hated getting dressed and threw such fits over it. I asked a friend for advice, and she looked at me completely and truly befuddled, and said “what do you mean? I just put her clothes on her and that’s that!”

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Some people get sheep kids, others get lions

Honestly this is true...

It’s truly obnoxious. Man, do you hear you at all?

Chicken and the egg wasn't right there, the personality is definitely the start but I mean it can build on itself despite parents trying really hard.

Anonymous wrote:This is why I hate Janet Lansbury and the cult of gentle parenting. Of course I agree it’s damaging to yell at, shame, and physically punish kids. But my issue is the way She describes her techniques and her genuine expectation that kids will just comply after 2-3 days of consistent gentle boundaries. The first time I tried one of her techniques for holding a boundary I tried for over a month every single day with no results. She claimed it works in 2-3 days. I’ve never felt lonelier. Having a difficult, strong-willed kid is like parenting on a different planet where you are totally on your own because no advice or conventional wisdom works for you, and no one has any sympathy for you because they just assume you’re a spineless idiot doing everything wrong.

So ya, I agree with OP.

I never understood Janet Lansbury at all. I really struggled with my strong willed first child so I tried some of her advice and it failed miserably. I then looked into her qualifications and couldn't find much at all so I dismissed her. Seems like a lot of people do find her helpful though.

Also, I will add that it is true it can be a little of the chicken or the egg in that if you have a very strong willed kid, I have reflected that maybe there are times where I say yes to avoid a fight etc, where with my other more easier child I might more easily say no. This is unfortunate, and if you are only a parent of a child who is easier on the spectrum, would be very hard to understand. But when your child is SO INTENSE ABOUT EVERYTHING, sometimes you are TIRED and maybe you do have times you give in without realizing or get beaten down. And that certainly doesn't help the cycle but it is inevitable with a kid like this. I'm not saying this is right, or good, but it is a reality.

It is WAY EASIER to say no to generally compliant kids, or to hold a boundary. It JUST IS. Saying no to my easier kid is like ok cool, he'll get over it in a little. Or use a strategy you've read in a book, it usually works. With my other kid, nooo way. So it is also easier as a parent of easier kids to be like JUST HOLD THE BOUNDARY YOU'RE LETTING THEM WALK ALL OVER YOU. Just, have empathy friends! Some people have it way harder than me, it isn't the suffering Olympics.

Anonymous wrote:Some people get sheep kids, others get lions

Honestly this is true...

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you have some good points but it’s not as black and white as you are implying. Yes, every parent is trying their best, but some strategies are just not as effective and every parent has blind spots. I would absolutely rather be alerted to my blind spot than continue to struggle. So, I could turn your same question around and say, why are some parents so insecure and defensive that they assume that feedback is an attack on their parenting?

The best athletes in the world have multiple coaches and specialists who critique their performance every day. Authors have editors. Etc. Nobody is nailing it just through sheer effort, we all benefit from a feedback loop.

I don’t think the ugliness or mean tones are justified but I also don’t believe that every single kid who acts out is simply hopeless and just a harder kid. I’ve seen parents in real life who unknowingly cause or worsen their kids issues, despite the best of intentions!

Actually, I think the point is that not all parents have to give equal effort. Compliant/easy children are very forgiving in terms of parenting styles and techniques. Most will work decently with these kids. The more difficult kids are extremely unforgiving of different parenting techniques. Parents have to find the exact right one and be disciplined enough to be consistent 100% of the time. It is just not the same level of effort.

This. The problem on DCUM is that people with easy kids who don't have to work very hard at it will respond to threads posted by parents who are genuinely struggling and who want feedback and advice, who know that what they are doing isn't working and would like a gut check or a different perspective.

But too often the offered perspective is "just do X" because that's what people with easy kids do and it works, and they don't understand that the OP in those threads not only has already tried that, but also probably 6 other things, and consulted their pediatrician and talked to the teacher and read three books on the subject.

Some kids are just hard.

Who are these people? Pretty much every parent I know is working their a** off, even those with so-called “easy” kids. Parents of good, well behaved kids are probably working quite hard at it.

I agree most parents are working hard, but if you are truly close with someone that has easier kids and you have a harder one or one with special needs over time you REALLY see the difference. I mean, with one of my friends it is like we are in different worlds. We talk daily so I know a lot about their days and know her kids really well. They both really fall into the want to please category of kids, which sure it may cause some things they have to work through in the future as teens or adults but from a parenting perspective BOY is it easier. I'm not saying parenting still doesn't require work. She still has to make them breakfast every morning, get them to school, think about camp sign up, deal with a tantrum here and there, it is still a lot! But I'm telling you it is absolutely not the same as doing all that PLUS a kid who needs extra support or who will fight you tooth and nail for most things.

I have one easy and one hard. My "easy" kid's tantrums were a hilarious walk in the park in comparison as a toddler. Its like tantrum, I'm upset, and then it is over. Yeah it is slightly unpleasant but with a few tools, the child responds and boom you're moving on. If you only have kids that tantrum like that you don't really realize what it is like to have a kid with special needs or in that strong willed category. WHOLE DIFFERENT BALL GAME.

Anyway, I completely agree with you op.

This is why I hate Janet Lansbury and the cult of gentle parenting. Of course I agree it’s damaging to yell at, shame, and physically punish kids. But my issue is the way She describes her techniques and her genuine expectation that kids will just comply after 2-3 days of consistent gentle boundaries. The first time I tried one of her techniques for holding a boundary I tried for over a month every single day with no results. She claimed it works in 2-3 days. I’ve never felt lonelier. Having a difficult, strong-willed kid is like parenting on a different planet where you are totally on your own because no advice or conventional wisdom works for you, and no one has any sympathy for you because they just assume you’re a spineless idiot doing everything wrong.

So ya, I agree with OP.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:People never think their child is easy (unless they have multiples and a hard one is among them). People think they are superior parents.

Some people do have better temperaments to be parents. Are more informed, are better able to hold a boundary, are more patient, etc. Some have more time, or more energy or both. Just as not all kids are the same, not all parents are and some are really really terrible. Some are abusive and some are just plain lazy.

Some parents are also better supported. They may actually have worse temperaments to be parents, but they have nearby family or plenty of money to outsource some of the toughest aspects of parenting. I have found that people who claim that parenting is easy or who responds to someone who is struggling with some aspect of parenting with condescension or superiority, often fall in this category.

The very best parents I know, the ones who have amazing temperaments for raising kids, who are incredibly patient, have energy for all of it, etc., would also be the FIRST people to tell you that parenting is hard, that sometimes it breaks you, and that no one, and I mean no one, does it perfectly all the time. I think this is actually a mark of a good parent because it demonstrates a bunch of personal skills that are so useful in parenting, like having self-compassion and empathy for others, recognizing the perfect is the enemy of the good, being able to be honest about hard truths, and having humility and self-awareness. All of that will help you be the best possible parent to a child, whether super easy or super tough. And it also generally makes you a better friend and support to other parents, even when they don't have the same skill set or may struggle more than you do.

Some parents are abusive (mine were!) but these are generally not the parents who are asking for advice on a parenting website or who are self-aware enough about what is happening in their homes to even be able to admit they are struggling. My observation is that often the parents who seem like they are struggling the most are often much better parents than they give themselves credit for. They are hard on themselves because they care so much, and because they really take the responsibility of raising children seriously. That's not laziness.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I think you have some good points but it’s not as black and white as you are implying. Yes, every parent is trying their best, but some strategies are just not as effective and every parent has blind spots. I would absolutely rather be alerted to my blind spot than continue to struggle. So, I could turn your same question around and say, why are some parents so insecure and defensive that they assume that feedback is an attack on their parenting?

The best athletes in the world have multiple coaches and specialists who critique their performance every day. Authors have editors. Etc. Nobody is nailing it just through sheer effort, we all benefit from a feedback loop.

I don’t think the ugliness or mean tones are justified but I also don’t believe that every single kid who acts out is simply hopeless and just a harder kid. I’ve seen parents in real life who unknowingly cause or worsen their kids issues, despite the best of intentions!

Actually, I think the point is that not all parents have to give equal effort. Compliant/easy children are very forgiving in terms of parenting styles and techniques. Most will work decently with these kids. The more difficult kids are extremely unforgiving of different parenting techniques. Parents have to find the exact right one and be disciplined enough to be consistent 100% of the time. It is just not the same level of effort.

This. The problem on DCUM is that people with easy kids who don't have to work very hard at it will respond to threads posted by parents who are genuinely struggling and who want feedback and advice, who know that what they are doing isn't working and would like a gut check or a different perspective.

But too often the offered perspective is "just do X" because that's what people with easy kids do and it works, and they don't understand that the OP in those threads not only has already tried that, but also probably 6 other things, and consulted their pediatrician and talked to the teacher and read three books on the subject.

Some kids are just hard.

Who are these people? Pretty much every parent I know is working their a** off, even those with so-called “easy” kids. Parents of good, well behaved kids are probably working quite hard at it.

I was at my oldest’s soccer practice the other day and a mom sat next to me with her 2 and 4 year old calmly doing sticker books on a blanket the entire hour! Just sitting there happily! If I’d had my 2 and 4yo there it would have been hard work the whole time trying to keep them off the field, occupied with anything for more than 3 minutes etc etc. No amount of planning, good parenting, preparation, reward charts etc would make my kids do what those kids did.

I’m sure that parent is working hard in lots of ways, there’s endless things to worry about when parenting, but there are easy kids out there and I don’t have them.

It is normal for a kid to want to run around and it’s normal to have to be up and moving the entire time you are out in public with a toddler. And yes it is hard. It would never occur to me that it’s a bad thing though.

Anonymous wrote:I mean this kindly - if you are that affected by people’s opinion of you, you need to stop engaging online. Online forums, especially anonymous ones, bring out the cranks and the quick-judgers. And if people IRL are making you feel like this, stop engaging with them too. Spend more time with the parents from your class, who will be supportive. If you truly think you are doing your best, then stop caring what other people think.

+1. I replied to the “rude 7 year old” thread in response to someone who insisted that all 7 year olds go through a phase where they tell their parents to shut up.

Parents have depth of knowledge, but it’s very narrow, just limited to their own kids. When you ask a forum for advice, you are getting individual opinions based on limited life experiences. You have to parse the opinions to see the spectrum. Speak to trained professionals who have seen a breadth of experiences for a more balanced view. And know that many posters say things with the intention of insulting and criticizing others, while aggrandizing their own situations. My mom worked in childcare and the number of posters who insist that their 2 year old never hits, bites, snatches or pushes other kids is just laughable.