Anonymous wrote:I've heard that Dartmouth dean (who I think is an ass, just imo) say that on two podcasts, but I think that "test aware" policy will be for next cycle, so current HS juniors. He's just previewing that a good score is better than no score. And a good score may be just under their 25% number.

Yale as well.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For colleges that are test optional, no - test scores are not "more important than ever."

Logic.

It’s amazing how many people today accept surface level explanations and don’t consider unintended consequences or ulterior motives.

Parents think they are smarter than the colleges and AOs. Especially when their DC gets deferred or rejected.

If colleges don't want to be test optional they won't state that they are. The highly selective schools have their pick of the students they want to shape the class they want in any given admissions cycle - test optional or not.

A few schools have recently made statements indicating they are test preferred. They are saying it.

Which schools? And where are they saying this?

And obscure podcasts don't count. Where is it on the college's website?

It’s not.

So at our private, I personally know TO applicants who got into:

Vanderbilt
Cornell
Northwestern
Colgate
UofChicago (no surprise)

I’m sure there are others. I have a senior who’s friends with these folks. Don’t know any others.

So many insist that TO is for poor minorities. See above for more proof that even the well-to do apply TO successfully.

This poster isn’t in dmv, and apparently is California, which is a special case due to all public’s being test blind.

I've heard that Dartmouth dean (who I think is an ass, just imo) say that on two podcasts, but I think that "test aware" policy will be for next cycle, so current HS juniors. He's just previewing that a good score is better than no score. And a good score may be just under their 25% number.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For colleges that are test optional, no - test scores are not "more important than ever."

Logic.

It’s amazing how many people today accept surface level explanations and don’t consider unintended consequences or ulterior motives.

Parents think they are smarter than the colleges and AOs. Especially when their DC gets deferred or rejected.

If colleges don't want to be test optional they won't state that they are. The highly selective schools have their pick of the students they want to shape the class they want in any given admissions cycle - test optional or not.

A few schools have recently made statements indicating they are test preferred. They are saying it.

Which schools? And where are they saying this?

And obscure podcasts don't count. Where is it on the college's website?

It’s not.

So at our private, I personally know TO applicants who got into:

Vanderbilt
Cornell
Northwestern
Colgate
UofChicago (no surprise)

I’m sure there are others. I have a senior who’s friends with these folks. Don’t know any others.

I had a senior last cycle, no one getting in a T20 went test optional, they all had great test scores. This is from a Maryland top academic rigor private. Perhaps different in other parts of the country. I do know kids that successfully went test optional at Pitt and BC.

How many of those you listed were also legacies, athletic recruits or urns?

No athletes here (otherwise the list would be soooo long!). All White or Asian or white/Asian kids.
Not in DMV.
Rigorous private.

California?

Apparently so. California kids are more able to get away with test optional because the whole California system is test blind. It has little relevance to kids applying from dmv.

Yep. And your child's first (and really main) competition is kids from their own school. So if you're in CA and very few peers are taking the tests, you probably don't have to take the tests.
I

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For colleges that are test optional, no - test scores are not "more important than ever."

Logic.

It’s amazing how many people today accept surface level explanations and don’t consider unintended consequences or ulterior motives.

Parents think they are smarter than the colleges and AOs. Especially when their DC gets deferred or rejected.

If colleges don't want to be test optional they won't state that they are. The highly selective schools have their pick of the students they want to shape the class they want in any given admissions cycle - test optional or not.

A few schools have recently made statements indicating they are test preferred. They are saying it.

Which schools? And where are they saying this?

And obscure podcasts don't count. Where is it on the college's website?

It’s not.

So at our private, I personally know TO applicants who got into:

Vanderbilt
Cornell
Northwestern
Colgate
UofChicago (no surprise)

I’m sure there are others. I have a senior who’s friends with these folks. Don’t know any others.

So many insist that TO is for poor minorities. See above for more proof that even the well-to do apply TO successfully.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For colleges that are test optional, no - test scores are not "more important than ever."

Logic.

It’s amazing how many people today accept surface level explanations and don’t consider unintended consequences or ulterior motives.

Parents think they are smarter than the colleges and AOs. Especially when their DC gets deferred or rejected.

If colleges don't want to be test optional they won't state that they are. The highly selective schools have their pick of the students they want to shape the class they want in any given admissions cycle - test optional or not.

A few schools have recently made statements indicating they are test preferred. They are saying it.

Which schools? And where are they saying this?

And obscure podcasts don't count. Where is it on the college's website?

It’s not.

So at our private, I personally know TO applicants who got into:

Vanderbilt
Cornell
Northwestern
Colgate
UofChicago (no surprise)

I’m sure there are others. I have a senior who’s friends with these folks. Don’t know any others.

I had a senior last cycle, no one getting in a T20 went test optional, they all had great test scores. This is from a Maryland top academic rigor private. Perhaps different in other parts of the country. I do know kids that successfully went test optional at Pitt and BC.

How many of those you listed were also legacies, athletic recruits or urns?

No athletes here (otherwise the list would be soooo long!). All White or Asian or white/Asian kids.
Not in DMV.
Rigorous private.

California?

Apparently so. California kids are more able to get away with test optional because the whole California system is test blind. It has little relevance to kids applying from dmv.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For colleges that are test optional, no - test scores are not "more important than ever."

Logic.

It’s amazing how many people today accept surface level explanations and don’t consider unintended consequences or ulterior motives.

Parents think they are smarter than the colleges and AOs. Especially when their DC gets deferred or rejected.

If colleges don't want to be test optional they won't state that they are. The highly selective schools have their pick of the students they want to shape the class they want in any given admissions cycle - test optional or not.

A few schools have recently made statements indicating they are test preferred. They are saying it.

Which schools? And where are they saying this?

And obscure podcasts don't count. Where is it on the college's website?

The podcast is on the college's website, here: https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/follow/admissions-beat-podcast S4 EPISODE 8, Data Dive, Part 2: Standardized Testing

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For colleges that are test optional, no - test scores are not "more important than ever."

Logic.

It’s amazing how many people today accept surface level explanations and don’t consider unintended consequences or ulterior motives.

Parents think they are smarter than the colleges and AOs. Especially when their DC gets deferred or rejected.

If colleges don't want to be test optional they won't state that they are. The highly selective schools have their pick of the students they want to shape the class they want in any given admissions cycle - test optional or not.

A few schools have recently made statements indicating they are test preferred. They are saying it.

Which schools? And where are they saying this?

And obscure podcasts don't count. Where is it on the college's website?

It’s not.

So at our private, I personally know TO applicants who got into:

Vanderbilt
Cornell
Northwestern
Colgate
UofChicago (no surprise)

I’m sure there are others. I have a senior who’s friends with these folks. Don’t know any others.

I had a senior last cycle, no one getting in a T20 went test optional, they all had great test scores. This is from a Maryland top academic rigor private. Perhaps different in other parts of the country. I do know kids that successfully went test optional at Pitt and BC.

How many of those you listed were also legacies, athletic recruits or urns?

Schools CCO is best equipped to advise how a T20 svhool will view your kids application/GPA and whether TO will work. There isn’t a formula.

I have kids at two different Baltimore privates, both moved to explicitly saying good test scores are the better route this fall. Heard the same from private college counselor.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For colleges that are test optional, no - test scores are not "more important than ever."

Logic.

It’s amazing how many people today accept surface level explanations and don’t consider unintended consequences or ulterior motives.

Parents think they are smarter than the colleges and AOs. Especially when their DC gets deferred or rejected.

If colleges don't want to be test optional they won't state that they are. The highly selective schools have their pick of the students they want to shape the class they want in any given admissions cycle - test optional or not.

A few schools have recently made statements indicating they are test preferred. They are saying it.

Which schools? And where are they saying this?

And obscure podcasts don't count. Where is it on the college's website?

It’s not.

So at our private, I personally know TO applicants who got into:

Vanderbilt
Cornell
Northwestern
Colgate
UofChicago (no surprise)

I’m sure there are others. I have a senior who’s friends with these folks. Don’t know any others.

I had a senior last cycle, no one getting in a T20 went test optional, they all had great test scores. This is from a Maryland top academic rigor private. Perhaps different in other parts of the country. I do know kids that successfully went test optional at Pitt and BC.

How many of those you listed were also legacies, athletic recruits or urns?

No athletes here (otherwise the list would be soooo long!). All White or Asian or white/Asian kids.
Not in DMV.
Rigorous private.

California?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For colleges that are test optional, no - test scores are not "more important than ever."

Logic.

It’s amazing how many people today accept surface level explanations and don’t consider unintended consequences or ulterior motives.

Parents think they are smarter than the colleges and AOs. Especially when their DC gets deferred or rejected.

If colleges don't want to be test optional they won't state that they are. The highly selective schools have their pick of the students they want to shape the class they want in any given admissions cycle - test optional or not.

A few schools have recently made statements indicating they are test preferred. They are saying it.

Which schools? And where are they saying this?

And obscure podcasts don't count. Where is it on the college's website?

It’s not.

So at our private, I personally know TO applicants who got into:

Vanderbilt
Cornell
Northwestern
Colgate
UofChicago (no surprise)

I’m sure there are others. I have a senior who’s friends with these folks. Don’t know any others.

I had a senior last cycle, no one getting in a T20 went test optional, they all had great test scores. This is from a Maryland top academic rigor private. Perhaps different in other parts of the country. I do know kids that successfully went test optional at Pitt and BC.

How many of those you listed were also legacies, athletic recruits or urns?

Schools CCO is best equipped to advise how a T20 svhool will view your kids application/GPA and whether TO will work. There isn’t a formula.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For colleges that are test optional, no - test scores are not "more important than ever."

Logic.

It’s amazing how many people today accept surface level explanations and don’t consider unintended consequences or ulterior motives.

Parents think they are smarter than the colleges and AOs. Especially when their DC gets deferred or rejected.

If colleges don't want to be test optional they won't state that they are. The highly selective schools have their pick of the students they want to shape the class they want in any given admissions cycle - test optional or not.

A few schools have recently made statements indicating they are test preferred. They are saying it.

Which schools? And where are they saying this?

And obscure podcasts don't count. Where is it on the college's website?

It’s not.

So at our private, I personally know TO applicants who got into:

Vanderbilt
Cornell
Northwestern
Colgate
UofChicago (no surprise)

I’m sure there are others. I have a senior who’s friends with these folks. Don’t know any others.

I had a senior last cycle, no one getting in a T20 went test optional, they all had great test scores. This is from a Maryland top academic rigor private. Perhaps different in other parts of the country. I do know kids that successfully went test optional at Pitt and BC.

How many of those you listed were also legacies, athletic recruits or urns?

It’s different across the country.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For colleges that are test optional, no - test scores are not "more important than ever."

Logic.

It’s amazing how many people today accept surface level explanations and don’t consider unintended consequences or ulterior motives.

Parents think they are smarter than the colleges and AOs. Especially when their DC gets deferred or rejected.

If colleges don't want to be test optional they won't state that they are. The highly selective schools have their pick of the students they want to shape the class they want in any given admissions cycle - test optional or not.

A few schools have recently made statements indicating they are test preferred. They are saying it.

Which schools? And where are they saying this?

And obscure podcasts don't count. Where is it on the college's website?

It’s not.

So at our private, I personally know TO applicants who got into:

Vanderbilt
Cornell
Northwestern
Colgate
UofChicago (no surprise)

I’m sure there are others. I have a senior who’s friends with these folks. Don’t know any others.

I had a senior last cycle, no one getting in a T20 went test optional, they all had great test scores. This is from a Maryland top academic rigor private. Perhaps different in other parts of the country. I do know kids that successfully went test optional at Pitt and BC.

How many of those you listed were also legacies, athletic recruits or urns?

No athletes here (otherwise the list would be soooo long!). All White or Asian or white/Asian kids.
Not in DMV.
Rigorous private.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For colleges that are test optional, no - test scores are not "more important than ever."

Logic.

It’s amazing how many people today accept surface level explanations and don’t consider unintended consequences or ulterior motives.

Parents think they are smarter than the colleges and AOs. Especially when their DC gets deferred or rejected.

If colleges don't want to be test optional they won't state that they are. The highly selective schools have their pick of the students they want to shape the class they want in any given admissions cycle - test optional or not.

A few schools have recently made statements indicating they are test preferred. They are saying it.

Which schools? And where are they saying this?

And obscure podcasts don't count. Where is it on the college's website?

How about podcasts run by Dartmouth’s admissions offfice where they interview other admissions officers? Straight from the horse’s mouth still not good enough for you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:For colleges that are test optional, no - test scores are not "more important than ever."

Logic.

It’s amazing how many people today accept surface level explanations and don’t consider unintended consequences or ulterior motives.

Parents think they are smarter than the colleges and AOs. Especially when their DC gets deferred or rejected.

If colleges don't want to be test optional they won't state that they are. The highly selective schools have their pick of the students they want to shape the class they want in any given admissions cycle - test optional or not.

A few schools have recently made statements indicating they are test preferred. They are saying it.

Which schools? And where are they saying this?

And obscure podcasts don't count. Where is it on the college's website?

It’s not.

So at our private, I personally know TO applicants who got into:

Vanderbilt
Cornell
Northwestern
Colgate
UofChicago (no surprise)

I’m sure there are others. I have a senior who’s friends with these folks. Don’t know any others.

I had a senior last cycle, no one getting in a T20 went test optional, they all had great test scores. This is from a Maryland top academic rigor private. Perhaps different in other parts of the country. I do know kids that successfully went test optional at Pitt and BC.

How many of those you listed were also legacies, athletic recruits or urns?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Yes, OP is correct. The way schools use test optional now, there is no difference between a 1200 and a 1500 (both are advised to apply test optional), but all the difference in the world between a 1500 and a 1520. Which puts kids scoring at the upper end of the test optional range under enormous pressure to get their objectively very good scores up to the reportable level.

I advise people to submit scores above 1300 except to t20. Most people aren't thinking about those schools in the first place. If the education you want can only be found at a t20 then anything over 1400 can be used. The odds are against you but going TO when you have a 1400 just let's the admissions officers assume you have a 1050.

Do you know how true this is? I always wondered about it. My kid has a 1480- which I think is a great score, but it seems like (based on what I read on this board), it is a test optional score for the top 30 schools. I keep hearing mixed things. Regardless - my kid sent her score to all the schools that she applied to- which includes a few in the top 20- we'll see what happens.

I hope you agree that acceptance to a top 20 is a crapshoot whether or not a test score is submitted. A test score is not the determining factor in admissions for such schools. This is what people either don't understand or want to accept.

So...if your DC with the 1480 warrants admission to a top 20 based on the totality of the application, great. If not, one can almost guarantee that an applicant with a 1580 got rejected too. That's just the way it is with these schools.

That's a really good point about the value of the test scores. Yeah - I told my kid that it's kind of like a lottery/shot in the dark these days. At this point, we know that even targets are difficult. We know people with her scores who got rejected to FSU and Clemson (these are some of the target schools that my kid is still waiting on). A few years ago, I used to think these schools were a safety. When we did our tour at UPenn, our guide had a similar SAT score as my kid and got waitlisted, and ultimately admitted (but she applied during the Covid when a lot of kids were getting off the waitlist due to applicants deferring). You're right, the totality of the application is so important.