I'm waiting until my kid is 16-17. At that age I pray they are mature enough to understand. But, otherwise waiting until college and I'll move out and file.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really wish people realized that its damaging to the kids when you stay unhappily married until the youngest is out of the house. People seem to have this naive idea that staying doesn't mess kids up too.

People have a naive idea that divorcing an unhealthy, dysfunctional, abusive spouse turns them into a healthy, functional, kind co-parent

+1
Other myth is people vastly believe the U.S. family court system cares enough about children’s health, safety and rights over an untreated mentally disordered and neglectful “parent’s” rights.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really wish people realized that its damaging to the kids when you stay unhappily married until the youngest is out of the house. People seem to have this naive idea that staying doesn't mess kids up too.

I read a book about this and the therapist who wrote the book basically said that if you are somewhat amicable low conflict roommates it’s better for the kids than divorce. Kids are not THAT aware or interested with what is going on with their parents. They worry about themselves. If you can provide them a safe and peaceful home they are fine. YMMV.

But a lot of couples can't do this and the kids witness the high level of contempt for each other. Some actively criticize the spouse in from of the kids. To me that's child abuse. This does not give them a good understanding of what a healthy and loving relationship is.

If you choose to stay together for the kids, it's imperative for you two to get counseling so you can positively parent together.

Let’s define the word “criticize.”

Telling someone to clean up their area?

Telling someone to respond to an XYZ email?

Telling someone to not be late tomorrow for ABC?

Telling someone not to yell and explode at 7am?

My father used to call my mother a dumb #uck and a dumb #ss in front of us. My sister and I used to talk about how we were never getting married since we assumed if we did we would also be called names like this in front of our children.

Name calling (and not due to bully escalating things)

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who else?

How many years left?

I have 10

That’s a horribly long time for faking it

NP. I faked it for 10 years. Horrible marriage from the start. Divorce suprisingly has not been more freeing. In fact, it is worse in many ways. More communication. More money. Kids are fine. But I am angrier than I was before. If I had known, I would have continued faking it until college.

OP here

This is what I think. Divorced coparenting sucks, if your marriage is dysfunctional in certain ways that won’t be better with divorce it is better to suck it up and deal.

We tried the separation and it wasn’t better for me.

PP here. It is so bad, I may move back into the marital home for a year (leave to a hotel some weekends) and then try nesting for a year. It’s been years and it is worse than before. It is like there is no escape until college anyway.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who else?

How many years left?

I have 10

That’s a horribly long time for faking it

NP. I faked it for 10 years. Horrible marriage from the start. Divorce suprisingly has not been more freeing. In fact, it is worse in many ways. More communication. More money. Kids are fine. But I am angrier than I was before. If I had known, I would have continued faking it until college.

OP here

This is what I think. Divorced coparenting sucks, if your marriage is dysfunctional in certain ways that won’t be better with divorce it is better to suck it up and deal.

We tried the separation and it wasn’t better for me.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Who else?

How many years left?

I have 10

That’s a horribly long time for faking it

NP. I faked it for 10 years. Horrible marriage from the start. Divorce suprisingly has not been more freeing. In fact, it is worse in many ways. More communication. More money. Kids are fine. But I am angrier than I was before. If I had known, I would have continued faking it until college.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:In case this is helpful....

I was also counting it down. I had 8 years till youngest left for college. We were sexless, grumpy and really distant and I couldn't take it. We did separate vacations, slept in separate rooms. It was cordial but cold.

We ended up going to counseling, against my better judgement and things slowly improved. We are doing well now.

I don't know if this is unrealistic hope for some. But its just perspective that for those who say "just pull the plug now" there is some benefit to living together for the kids and you never know if it can turn around.

What kind of counseling and did both people have things to work on and did the therapist hold people accountable?
No lying to the therapist by one side? Or rewriting the narrative?

It was a a marital therapist. It felt more like us realizing out loud we were really heading towards divorce? Who knows but my wife started being nice to me after a few sessions and I reciprocated. It wasn't overnight but her putting in a bit of an effort made me feel like I should.

It was a lot of fake it till you make it at the start

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really wish people realized that its damaging to the kids when you stay unhappily married until the youngest is out of the house. People seem to have this naive idea that staying doesn't mess kids up too.

I read a book about this and the therapist who wrote the book basically said that if you are somewhat amicable low conflict roommates it’s better for the kids than divorce. Kids are not THAT aware or interested with what is going on with their parents. They worry about themselves. If you can provide them a safe and peaceful home they are fine. YMMV.

But a lot of couples can't do this and the kids witness the high level of contempt for each other. Some actively criticize the spouse in from of the kids. To me that's child abuse. This does not give them a good understanding of what a healthy and loving relationship is.

If you choose to stay together for the kids, it's imperative for you two to get counseling so you can positively parent together.

Let’s define the word “criticize.”

Telling someone to clean up their area?

Telling someone to respond to an XYZ email?

Telling someone to not be late tomorrow for ABC?

Telling someone not to yell and explode at 7am?

My father used to call my mother a dumb #uck and a dumb #ss in front of us. My sister and I used to talk about how we were never getting married since we assumed if we did we would also be called names like this in front of our children.

Anonymous wrote:In case this is helpful....

I was also counting it down. I had 8 years till youngest left for college. We were sexless, grumpy and really distant and I couldn't take it. We did separate vacations, slept in separate rooms. It was cordial but cold.

We ended up going to counseling, against my better judgement and things slowly improved. We are doing well now.

I don't know if this is unrealistic hope for some. But its just perspective that for those who say "just pull the plug now" there is some benefit to living together for the kids and you never know if it can turn around.

What kind of counseling and did both people have things to work on and did the therapist hold people accountable?
No lying to the therapist by one side? Or rewriting the narrative?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really wish people realized that its damaging to the kids when you stay unhappily married until the youngest is out of the house. People seem to have this naive idea that staying doesn't mess kids up too.

I read a book about this and the therapist who wrote the book basically said that if you are somewhat amicable low conflict roommates it’s better for the kids than divorce. Kids are not THAT aware or interested with what is going on with their parents. They worry about themselves. If you can provide them a safe and peaceful home they are fine. YMMV.

But a lot of couples can't do this and the kids witness the high level of contempt for each other. Some actively criticize the spouse in from of the kids. To me that's child abuse. This does not give them a good understanding of what a healthy and loving relationship is.

If you choose to stay together for the kids, it's imperative for you two to get counseling so you can positively parent together.

Let’s define the word “criticize.”

Telling someone to clean up their area?

Telling someone to respond to an XYZ email?

Telling someone to not be late tomorrow for ABC?

Telling someone not to yell and explode at 7am?

In case this is helpful....

I was also counting it down. I had 8 years till youngest left for college. We were sexless, grumpy and really distant and I couldn't take it. We did separate vacations, slept in separate rooms. It was cordial but cold.

We ended up going to counseling, against my better judgement and things slowly improved. We are doing well now.

I don't know if this is unrealistic hope for some. But its just perspective that for those who say "just pull the plug now" there is some benefit to living together for the kids and you never know if it can turn around.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really wish people realized that its damaging to the kids when you stay unhappily married until the youngest is out of the house. People seem to have this naive idea that staying doesn't mess kids up too.

I read a book about this and the therapist who wrote the book basically said that if you are somewhat amicable low conflict roommates it’s better for the kids than divorce. Kids are not THAT aware or interested with what is going on with their parents. They worry about themselves. If you can provide them a safe and peaceful home they are fine. YMMV.

But a lot of couples can't do this and the kids witness the high level of contempt for each other. Some actively criticize the spouse in from of the kids. To me that's child abuse. This does not give them a good understanding of what a healthy and loving relationship is.

If you choose to stay together for the kids, it's imperative for you two to get counseling so you can positively parent together.

I tried to get my spouse involved with the house and kids and family for years. He was busy with work. Didn’t talk with us much and tagged along when convenient however played in his phone a lot. If he did talk it was about himself or something he needed - time for a weekend call, more coffee, a nap.

So we all learned not to ask him questions or ask him to do much.

Then one day after business travel he suddenly didn’t like how we weren’t all kissing his @$$ to something.

He got angry and asked for a divorce. It was all about how awful I was and not supportive (yet I do everything plus work FT).
He then proceeded to do nothing- not file, not move out- but just be grumpy and mean and reject doing anything for the house- even pushing in his chair or putting his dirty plate in the sink. Picking petty fights.

He’s still passive aggressively acting like a jerk. The only other change is that everyone’s bonus pay this year will be very low, but he doesn’t want to talk about that. Or maybe that’s just a ruse.

It’s very destabilizing and I don’t know what changed. He’s a true work addict so I doubt it’s an affair. He can’t talk about anything but work with anyone.

I would have divorced years ago but we have kids, who he’s horrible with, and he doesn’t manage his adhd or asd.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is like a weekly thread. So sad.

It is sad. But not everyone in life gets lucky in marriage.

The problem is thinking it’s luck.

It is luck. Many things can happen in a marriage that one might not be able to forsee. On paper, it looked perfect. In reality, it was hell. Abusers don't show their colors until they think they have you...that is either with marriage or a birth of a child. Stop patting yourself on the back. Many people did everythng right, picked the right partners, and ended up with liars or abusers.

+1. The smug retorts are really over the top. Having a great marriage that you worked hard on doesn’t mean you didn’t also get lucky. Why is this hard for people to accept? You think the people in bad marriages didn’t work hard? The need to crow about your marriage success is remarkably obtuse.

+1

One of the strongest, happiest marriages I’ve seen in my sister and BIL. They then had a child with extremely serious medical issues and it just tore them apart. The child passed away and their marriage is irreparable. They stay together for their other child. So stop acting like you are so much better than other people because your marriage is a ‘good’ one. Luck is absolutely a part of the equation.

Coming here to say this. My husband lost his mom in a painful tragic accident when we had been married about ten years. We had never been through something like that before. He became a bitter angry person and the situation revealed that he doesn’t cope well with adversity/lacks those skills etc, is incapable of self reflection, is not the kind of person to learn and grow emotionally through a tough situation. He literally did stuff like making lists of other, worse people who “should have died” instead of his mom. The list included several of my relatives.it was really peculiar. And he basically admitted that he didn’t really have any kind of spiritual or emotional life and had just been going through the motions at church for me and the kids. Not something I could have seen or imagined when we were dating. I wanted to support him through this tragedy but he was just so lacking in emotional maturity that it was impossible to help him,

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:I really wish people realized that its damaging to the kids when you stay unhappily married until the youngest is out of the house. People seem to have this naive idea that staying doesn't mess kids up too.

I read a book about this and the therapist who wrote the book basically said that if you are somewhat amicable low conflict roommates it’s better for the kids than divorce. Kids are not THAT aware or interested with what is going on with their parents. They worry about themselves. If you can provide them a safe and peaceful home they are fine. YMMV.

I agree with this. However the marriage needs to include piv, no other way around it

Lots of ways around that.

- Married lesbian

Not for men. Hands or anything else will not replace piv