Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every time someone brings up the nonsensical argument about the best athletes go to football and basketball etc
You better present the data that shows the results of athletic testing when the kids were young before they chose their sport.

You also need to explain why you only pick wide receivers and corner backs.
All soccer players are athletic and agile. Not just 2 positions.

How are the Charles Barkley, Shaq etc more athletic than any member of any MLS team?

Soccer players aren't training for years to wear pads and run into each other.

The PP put out some sensible data using speed only. You can define athletic however you want and then distort a point of view.

The inescapable fact is that USA does not win World Cup or place large professionals in soccers top leagues. Why is that? the USA has its best athletes in soccer yet they lose solely because of a lack of technical skill and tactics?

Tyreek Hill is a better athlete than any USMNT player. Period. Make of it what you will.

I'll make of you comment that there are levels to soccer knowledge and you're on the lower rungs.

The One Thing all international commentators and analysts agree on about US Soccer National Team is that Athleticism and Physicality is High.
But of course, that's not the holy grail for soccer success at the top levels.

What makes Tyreek Hill a better athlete than Mbappe?
He is a better American Football player.

Can Tyreek Hill score an Overhead Bicycle Kick from a ball crossed behind him?

Your comment:
A. Denigrate the other poster intelligence and knowledge
B. Note that US soccer is “high” at athleticism
C. Note that Tyreek Hill and Kylian Mbappe are comparable in athleticism
D. Ask if Tyreek can match Garnacho’s kick

My reply:
A. Pass
B. High yes elite no. Name the top US athlete in soccer and they are not in the top 50 in world
C. Yes. Unfortunately Tyreek is an American and Kylian is not. That’s the point so thanks for reinforcing it.
D. I very much doubt Tyreek could apply his athleticism in a game to technical skill he has never learned. Much as I doubt Kylian could catch a ball knowing he will be hit and being hit. Again this is not the point. The point is the beat US athletes are not drawn to soccer like the rest of the world is to it.

Christian McCaffrey is an Olympic speed guy and descended from same but he wants to play football not soccer. Mccaffrey has better athleticism than Pulisic etc. simply true.

Anonymous wrote:Any kid who requires this level of effort/money to achieve “elite” status in his sport is not actually an “elite” athlete. It will become painfully obvious as the child gets older.

Did the Williams Sisters become Elite tennis players by practicing 5 hours a month?
David Beckham's father trained him for hours each week to become Elite.

Any kid who requires this level of effort/money to achieve “elite” status in his sport is not actually an “elite” athlete. It will become painfully obvious as the child gets older.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every time someone brings up the nonsensical argument about the best athletes go to football and basketball etc
You better present the data that shows the results of athletic testing when the kids were young before they chose their sport.

You also need to explain why you only pick wide receivers and corner backs.
All soccer players are athletic and agile. Not just 2 positions.

How are the Charles Barkley, Shaq etc more athletic than any member of any MLS team?

Soccer players aren't training for years to wear pads and run into each other.

The PP put out some sensible data using speed only. You can define athletic however you want and then distort a point of view.

The inescapable fact is that USA does not win World Cup or place large professionals in soccers top leagues. Why is that? the USA has its best athletes in soccer yet they lose solely because of a lack of technical skill and tactics?

Tyreek Hill is a better athlete than any USMNT player. Period. Make of it what you will.

I'll make of you comment that there are levels to soccer knowledge and you're on the lower rungs.

The One Thing all international commentators and analysts agree on about US Soccer National Team is that Athleticism and Physicality is High.
But of course, that's not the holy grail for soccer success at the top levels.

What makes Tyreek Hill a better athlete than Mbappe?
He is a better American Football player.

Can Tyreek Hill score an Overhead Bicycle Kick from a ball crossed behind him?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Every time someone brings up the nonsensical argument about the best athletes go to football and basketball etc
You better present the data that shows the results of athletic testing when the kids were young before they chose their sport.

You also need to explain why you only pick wide receivers and corner backs.
All soccer players are athletic and agile. Not just 2 positions.

How are the Charles Barkley, Shaq etc more athletic than any member of any MLS team?

Soccer players aren't training for years to wear pads and run into each other.

The PP put out some sensible data using speed only. You can define athletic however you want and then distort a point of view.

The inescapable fact is that USA does not win World Cup or place large professionals in soccers top leagues. Why is that? the USA has its best athletes in soccer yet they lose solely because of a lack of technical skill and tactics?

Tyreek Hill is a better athlete than any USMNT player. Period. Make of it what you will.

Only 8 countries have won a world cup. Only 6 have won in anything resembling a modern era of athletes, with Uruguay most recently in 1950 and England in 1966 dropping out. 5 of those countries make up the majority of the top 4 finishes of all time. Only 1 of those countries is in the top 10 of population size. Only 2 are in the top 20.

Point is, you can drop the US population by 75% and still be bigger than any country competing regularly for a world cup except Brazil. There are plenty of athletes remaining for soccer once you take out the football, baseball, and basketball players. Even if they scoop up 3 out of 4 youth athletes, the available population is still bigger than anyone else in the world with 1 exception. It's not just the athletes.

Anonymous wrote:Every time someone brings up the nonsensical argument about the best athletes go to football and basketball etc
You better present the data that shows the results of athletic testing when the kids were young before they chose their sport.

You also need to explain why you only pick wide receivers and corner backs.
All soccer players are athletic and agile. Not just 2 positions.

How are the Charles Barkley, Shaq etc more athletic than any member of any MLS team?

Soccer players aren't training for years to wear pads and run into each other.

The PP put out some sensible data using speed only. You can define athletic however you want and then distort a point of view.

The inescapable fact is that USA does not win World Cup or place large professionals in soccers top leagues. Why is that? the USA has its best athletes in soccer yet they lose solely because of a lack of technical skill and tactics?

Tyreek Hill is a better athlete than any USMNT player. Period. Make of it what you will.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:
https://khelnow.com/football/top-10-fastest-football-players-in-the-world-2022

no Americans are in the top level of fastest footballers in the world (soccer)

American NFLers run similar times (when carrying ball)
https://sports.betmgm.com/en/blog/fastest-nfl-players/

So it does seem to reason that:

1. elite world soccer players and elite NFL players are comparably athletic in the category of speed

2. US elite soccer players are not comparably athletic to elite NFL players in the category of speed

Pulisic at 19 in the Bundesliga 2018 hit 34.4 km/h which is fast enough to put him on edge of faster soccer and NFL players. So Pulisic can be the exception to the general rule, but he hasnt been that fast in a long time due to injury.

Exactly.

No one says international soccer players aren't among the best athletes out there. They say that the U.S. soccer players aren't the best athletes in the U.S. And that's not really debatable. In other countries, the best athletes play soccer first and other sports 2nd. In the U.S., the best athletes play football and basketball first, then either baseball, hockey or soccer depending on preference.

Although that is changing to some extent. More parents are skipping football because of the concussion risk. And if their kid is unlikely to grow up to be 6'+, soccer is becoming very attractive to those parents. I've talked with a decent number of parents who are saying things like "My kid is a great athlete but won't be tall enough for basketball and I don't want them playing football." It's not a complete sea change but it is a change.

It's more than debatable.

What evidence exists that the best athletes in other countries choose soccer first?

Cycling? Track & Field? Winter Sports? Swimming? and the list goes on.
You think athletes in other countries get gold medals in international competitions outside soccer with their 3rd best athletes

Every time someone brings up the nonsensical argument about the best athletes go to football and basketball etc
You better present the data that shows the results of athletic testing when the kids were young before they chose their sport.

You also need to explain why you only pick wide receivers and corner backs.
All soccer players are athletic and agile. Not just 2 positions.

How are the Charles Barkley, Shaq etc more athletic than any member of any MLS team?

Soccer players aren't training for years to wear pads and run into each other.

This best athletes play other sports in the US is so Stupid.

It has absolutely not facts, truths or logic to back it up

Anonymous wrote:
https://khelnow.com/football/top-10-fastest-football-players-in-the-world-2022

no Americans are in the top level of fastest footballers in the world (soccer)

American NFLers run similar times (when carrying ball)
https://sports.betmgm.com/en/blog/fastest-nfl-players/

So it does seem to reason that:

1. elite world soccer players and elite NFL players are comparably athletic in the category of speed

2. US elite soccer players are not comparably athletic to elite NFL players in the category of speed

Pulisic at 19 in the Bundesliga 2018 hit 34.4 km/h which is fast enough to put him on edge of faster soccer and NFL players. So Pulisic can be the exception to the general rule, but he hasnt been that fast in a long time due to injury.

Exactly.

No one says international soccer players aren't among the best athletes out there. They say that the U.S. soccer players aren't the best athletes in the U.S. And that's not really debatable. In other countries, the best athletes play soccer first and other sports 2nd. In the U.S., the best athletes play football and basketball first, then either baseball, hockey or soccer depending on preference.

Although that is changing to some extent. More parents are skipping football because of the concussion risk. And if their kid is unlikely to grow up to be 6'+, soccer is becoming very attractive to those parents. I've talked with a decent number of parents who are saying things like "My kid is a great athlete but won't be tall enough for basketball and I don't want them playing football." It's not a complete sea change but it is a change.

https://khelnow.com/football/top-10-fastest-football-players-in-the-world-2022

no Americans are in the top level of fastest footballers in the world (soccer)

American NFLers run similar times (when carrying ball)
https://sports.betmgm.com/en/blog/fastest-nfl-players/

So it does seem to reason that:

1. elite world soccer players and elite NFL players are comparably athletic in the category of speed

2. US elite soccer players are not comparably athletic to elite NFL players in the category of speed

Pulisic at 19 in the Bundesliga 2018 hit 34.4 km/h which is fast enough to put him on edge of faster soccer and NFL players. So Pulisic can be the exception to the general rule, but he hasnt been that fast in a long time due to injury.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boys soccer is actually a pretty good choice if your kid is a good but not great athlete. The best female athletes in the US play soccer and basketball (and a little volleyball). In contrast, the boys predominantly play basketball and football in high school. We'd be a much better soccer nation on the men's side if even 20% of our best athletes played soccer.

Based on what facts and verifiable data do you present a narrative that the best athletes for boys go to basketball and football?

Please pause, take a minute or more, go through each position and game role activities in basketball and football, including the body types and fields of play.
Then tell me again with applicable logical reasoning how you reach a conclusion that soccer players are less athletic.

Not PP and not going to present any proof just some thought:
$ influences and promotes decisions. $ flows towards athletes in football and basketball in the US. SPay to play in soccer in US: $ flows away from player families. In Europe and Latin America $ flows towards athletes in soccer. USMNT imports foreign born players.
Defensive backs and receivers in football are going to be significantly better athletes than soccer players in speed and strength as a general rule and experience. And some of that is also because they train specifically for that improvement over a sustained period of time. NFL has no need to go abroad to recruit athletic ability unlike the USMNT.
One interesting way of looking at it: https://www.widerightnattylite.com/2019/7/9/20686053/what-could-the-usmnt-look-like-if-soccer-was-our-most-popular-sport

NFL is a terrible example because american pigskin football is not a global game, who else plays it? Germany...? If you want to to compare with an established american sport, it has to be basketball which has a deep talent pipeline domestically, but elite players can come from Serbia and Greece too, and there are certainly scouts scouring the globe for talent. NFL not so much, cause the world doesn't care about american football

the question was whether elite athletes in the US are more in soccer or other sports! So the US model is the only example that is relevant

ODell Beckham was invited to the USMNT system at 14 and chose to stay in football, in Germany he would not have US football as an option so he would have stayed in soccer. NBA holds true as well: Steve Nash of Canada chose basketball over soccer. Kosta Koufos was born in Ohio and played for Greece U-16 national soccer but chose basketball. There are unlimited examples.

Another way to put it, many US NFL players were elite track athletes and chose NFL over Olympic track pursuits. Are any USMNT players former elite world-class athletes in another sport? Pulisic is awesome and could have played P5 college football as a WR or DB but he does not have speed like NFL players.

US culture and money influence athletes choices.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Boys soccer is actually a pretty good choice if your kid is a good but not great athlete. The best female athletes in the US play soccer and basketball (and a little volleyball). In contrast, the boys predominantly play basketball and football in high school. We'd be a much better soccer nation on the men's side if even 20% of our best athletes played soccer.

Based on what facts and verifiable data do you present a narrative that the best athletes for boys go to basketball and football?

Please pause, take a minute or more, go through each position and game role activities in basketball and football, including the body types and fields of play.
Then tell me again with applicable logical reasoning how you reach a conclusion that soccer players are less athletic.

Not PP and not going to present any proof just some thought:
$ influences and promotes decisions. $ flows towards athletes in football and basketball in the US. SPay to play in soccer in US: $ flows away from player families. In Europe and Latin America $ flows towards athletes in soccer. USMNT imports foreign born players.
Defensive backs and receivers in football are going to be significantly better athletes than soccer players in speed and strength as a general rule and experience. And some of that is also because they train specifically for that improvement over a sustained period of time. NFL has no need to go abroad to recruit athletic ability unlike the USMNT.
One interesting way of looking at it: https://www.widerightnattylite.com/2019/7/9/20686053/what-could-the-usmnt-look-like-if-soccer-was-our-most-popular-sport

NFL is a terrible example because american pigskin football is not a global game, who else plays it? Germany...? If you want to to compare with an established american sport, it has to be basketball which has a deep talent pipeline domestically, but elite players can come from Serbia and Greece too, and there are certainly scouts scouring the globe for talent. NFL not so much, cause the world doesn't care about american football

I know very little about soccer, but googled out of curiousity. This seems to be a legitimate site.I limited to DC area. Rates say "starting at" and range from $50 to $140 per hour.
https://www.coachup.com/sports/washington-dc/soccer Majority seem to be more than $65.