Anonymous
11/19/2023 09:43
Subject: Barbie movie 'iconic' monologue is BS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I thought it was on point, OP.
Audiences may not have realized it, but the movie's entire goal is to show that Barbieland's matriarchy is just as stifling as the real world's patriarchy. That we have not yet found any way of living as equals, and may never do so. That some minority populations (Allan, weird Barbie, etc) will never find their place.
The conclusion is quite dark, actually, but because it's all wrapped in pink and smiles, a lot of people missed it.
I found this so obvious and the fact so many missed the point just shows how ignorant most are.
Your take is very condescending and very dismissive...You are not the main character and we are not all stupid because we have different takes on this an other things
Get over yourself. You are not as clever as you think.
I’m sorry you feel looked down upon but your take is filled with mistakes due to Your internal selfish needs to be right.
Anonymous
11/19/2023 09:38
Subject: Barbie movie 'iconic' monologue is BS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I didn't like the monologue either especially the beginning..."it's literally impossible to be a woman"
It's not impossible. I am one everyday. So much of it was the helpless, victim role, but women never acknowledge how we feed into it especially things like beauty standards, plastic surgery, etc. Women put that pressure on themselves.
Did you never study even a little feminism? I mean, The Beauty Myth has many flaws but it covered this ground 30 years ago -- and was required reading in my high school in the 90s.
I agree with a PP who thought the movie was pretty dark (though fun!) and the monologue is not really the point of the story. I wouldn't be shocked if it was a late addition.
I think it is a generational thing. As a Boomer, I thought the monologue was directed to Gen X women. My Gen X friends found the monologue to be very moving and touching, while my Boomer friends and I thought, basically, "No sh!t, Sherlock", and "Didn't we figure this out 50 years ago?"
That’s an interesting take.
I’m a GenX-er and I let out an audible laugh at this monologue because to me, it feeds right into what the boomers were told would happen (usually by men who were not pleased with the whole “women in the workplace” thing). “You won’t like it….” “You can’t do it ALL”, “We have division of labor in a household for a reason”, “running a home is a full-time job! You can’t expect to work 8-10 hours a day and come home with energy left over to do all of the following: grocery shop, cook, do laundry, clean, take care of the kids/help with homework, volunteer in the community/school…you’ll hate it!”
But our moms said “no, no—we got this! Watch us!”
But it turns out the nay-sayers weren’t wrong. At all.
As evidenced by the monologue.
I chose to stay at home and pour all my energy into the full-time job there. And I don’t feel that “expectation” that America Ferrera ranted about.
It honestly comes off as someone whining about getting what you signed up for!
I think the “you can’t do it all” is just BS to make people who can’t work and take care of their family and feel better.
So in other words—you CAN do it all…you just need the recognition of being a martyr for it, righ?
That’s what the monologue is. It’s double-speak. “Don’t you dare tell me I can’t do it all”—that’s BS…
“But now I will complain about how miserable it makes me to do so and how terrible “the world” is to me for putting these “impossible expectations” on me.”
Tiresome.
Yes I can. But I can’t be a football player.
I’m not threatened by the fact someone can be a football player and you should not be threatened that I can “do it all”.
Btw, running a house is not a full time job.
Great! You seem very fulfilled at “doing it all” and extremely satisfied that none of this is an issue for you. That’s wonderful for you.
And I’m not threatened by that.
But I’d think if that were true then this monologue would seem quite silly to you in the first place.
Anonymous
11/19/2023 09:30
Subject: Barbie movie 'iconic' monologue is BS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I didn't like the monologue either especially the beginning..."it's literally impossible to be a woman"
It's not impossible. I am one everyday. So much of it was the helpless, victim role, but women never acknowledge how we feed into it especially things like beauty standards, plastic surgery, etc. Women put that pressure on themselves.
Did you never study even a little feminism? I mean, The Beauty Myth has many flaws but it covered this ground 30 years ago -- and was required reading in my high school in the 90s.
I agree with a PP who thought the movie was pretty dark (though fun!) and the monologue is not really the point of the story. I wouldn't be shocked if it was a late addition.
I think it is a generational thing. As a Boomer, I thought the monologue was directed to Gen X women. My Gen X friends found the monologue to be very moving and touching, while my Boomer friends and I thought, basically, "No sh!t, Sherlock", and "Didn't we figure this out 50 years ago?"
That’s an interesting take.
I’m a GenX-er and I let out an audible laugh at this monologue because to me, it feeds right into what the boomers were told would happen (usually by men who were not pleased with the whole “women in the workplace” thing). “You won’t like it….” “You can’t do it ALL”, “We have division of labor in a household for a reason”, “running a home is a full-time job! You can’t expect to work 8-10 hours a day and come home with energy left over to do all of the following: grocery shop, cook, do laundry, clean, take care of the kids/help with homework, volunteer in the community/school…you’ll hate it!”
But our moms said “no, no—we got this! Watch us!”
But it turns out the nay-sayers weren’t wrong. At all.
As evidenced by the monologue.
I chose to stay at home and pour all my energy into the full-time job there. And I don’t feel that “expectation” that America Ferrera ranted about.
It honestly comes off as someone whining about getting what you signed up for!
Both the "nay-sayers" and you seem incapable of believing that a MAN could do some housework and childcare, thus relieving women of the "second shift" of doing all the childcare and housework after getting home from a full day of work.
We actually need a Ken movie to explain all this to men, but they'd never go see it. Heck, the Barbie move was REALLY a Ken movie but no one cares because we all just accept that men are going to do what they're going to do and then focus all our attention on what women should be doing but aren't.
That’s the silly part though. Two people doing two full-time jobs outside the home during the day doesn’t mean that they both come home with plenty of time and energy in the evening to tackle all the stuff that wasn’t done during the day! It just means they BOTH now have 1.5 full time
Jobs…instead of each having ONE full time job!
They are both still overworked, exhausted, and too overwhelmed to nurture themselves, their relationship, and their families.
It’s not about that I don’t think MEN could or should not “help out”—it’s that even when they do their “fair share” of housework with their partner, it is a raw deal for BOTH men and women as compared to the division of labor model.
Anonymous
11/19/2023 09:29
Subject: Barbie movie 'iconic' monologue is BS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I didn't like the monologue either especially the beginning..."it's literally impossible to be a woman"
It's not impossible. I am one everyday. So much of it was the helpless, victim role, but women never acknowledge how we feed into it especially things like beauty standards, plastic surgery, etc. Women put that pressure on themselves.
Did you never study even a little feminism? I mean, The Beauty Myth has many flaws but it covered this ground 30 years ago -- and was required reading in my high school in the 90s.
I agree with a PP who thought the movie was pretty dark (though fun!) and the monologue is not really the point of the story. I wouldn't be shocked if it was a late addition.
I think it is a generational thing. As a Boomer, I thought the monologue was directed to Gen X women. My Gen X friends found the monologue to be very moving and touching, while my Boomer friends and I thought, basically, "No sh!t, Sherlock", and "Didn't we figure this out 50 years ago?"
That’s an interesting take.
I’m a GenX-er and I let out an audible laugh at this monologue because to me, it feeds right into what the boomers were told would happen (usually by men who were not pleased with the whole “women in the workplace” thing). “You won’t like it….” “You can’t do it ALL”, “We have division of labor in a household for a reason”, “running a home is a full-time job! You can’t expect to work 8-10 hours a day and come home with energy left over to do all of the following: grocery shop, cook, do laundry, clean, take care of the kids/help with homework, volunteer in the community/school…you’ll hate it!”
But our moms said “no, no—we got this! Watch us!”
But it turns out the nay-sayers weren’t wrong. At all.
As evidenced by the monologue.
I chose to stay at home and pour all my energy into the full-time job there. And I don’t feel that “expectation” that America Ferrera ranted about.
It honestly comes off as someone whining about getting what you signed up for!
I think the “you can’t do it all” is just BS to make people who can’t work and take care of their family and feel better.
So in other words—you CAN do it all…you just need the recognition of being a martyr for it, righ?
That’s what the monologue is. It’s double-speak. “Don’t you dare tell me I can’t do it all”—that’s BS…
“But now I will complain about how miserable it makes me to do so and how terrible “the world” is to me for putting these “impossible expectations” on me.”
Tiresome.
Yes I can. But I can’t be a football player.
I’m not threatened by the fact someone can be a football player and you should not be threatened that I can “do it all”.
Btw, running a house is not a full time job.
Anonymous
11/19/2023 09:24
Subject: Barbie movie 'iconic' monologue is BS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I didn't like the monologue either especially the beginning..."it's literally impossible to be a woman"
It's not impossible. I am one everyday. So much of it was the helpless, victim role, but women never acknowledge how we feed into it especially things like beauty standards, plastic surgery, etc. Women put that pressure on themselves.
Did you never study even a little feminism? I mean, The Beauty Myth has many flaws but it covered this ground 30 years ago -- and was required reading in my high school in the 90s.
I agree with a PP who thought the movie was pretty dark (though fun!) and the monologue is not really the point of the story. I wouldn't be shocked if it was a late addition.
I think it is a generational thing. As a Boomer, I thought the monologue was directed to Gen X women. My Gen X friends found the monologue to be very moving and touching, while my Boomer friends and I thought, basically, "No sh!t, Sherlock", and "Didn't we figure this out 50 years ago?"
That’s an interesting take.
I’m a GenX-er and I let out an audible laugh at this monologue because to me, it feeds right into what the boomers were told would happen (usually by men who were not pleased with the whole “women in the workplace” thing). “You won’t like it….” “You can’t do it ALL”, “We have division of labor in a household for a reason”, “running a home is a full-time job! You can’t expect to work 8-10 hours a day and come home with energy left over to do all of the following: grocery shop, cook, do laundry, clean, take care of the kids/help with homework, volunteer in the community/school…you’ll hate it!”
But our moms said “no, no—we got this! Watch us!”
But it turns out the nay-sayers weren’t wrong. At all.
As evidenced by the monologue.
I chose to stay at home and pour all my energy into the full-time job there. And I don’t feel that “expectation” that America Ferrera ranted about.
It honestly comes off as someone whining about getting what you signed up for!
I think the “you can’t do it all” is just BS to make people who can’t work and take care of their family and feel better.
So in other words—you CAN do it all…you just need the recognition of being a martyr for it, righ?
That’s what the monologue is. It’s double-speak. “Don’t you dare tell me I can’t do it all”—that’s BS…
“But now I will complain about how miserable it makes me to do so and how terrible “the world” is to me for putting these “impossible expectations” on me.”
Tiresome.
Anonymous
11/19/2023 09:19
Subject: Barbie movie 'iconic' monologue is BS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I didn't like the monologue either especially the beginning..."it's literally impossible to be a woman"
It's not impossible. I am one everyday. So much of it was the helpless, victim role, but women never acknowledge how we feed into it especially things like beauty standards, plastic surgery, etc. Women put that pressure on themselves.
Did you never study even a little feminism? I mean, The Beauty Myth has many flaws but it covered this ground 30 years ago -- and was required reading in my high school in the 90s.
I agree with a PP who thought the movie was pretty dark (though fun!) and the monologue is not really the point of the story. I wouldn't be shocked if it was a late addition.
I think it is a generational thing. As a Boomer, I thought the monologue was directed to Gen X women. My Gen X friends found the monologue to be very moving and touching, while my Boomer friends and I thought, basically, "No sh!t, Sherlock", and "Didn't we figure this out 50 years ago?"
That’s an interesting take.
I’m a GenX-er and I let out an audible laugh at this monologue because to me, it feeds right into what the boomers were told would happen (usually by men who were not pleased with the whole “women in the workplace” thing). “You won’t like it….” “You can’t do it ALL”, “We have division of labor in a household for a reason”, “running a home is a full-time job! You can’t expect to work 8-10 hours a day and come home with energy left over to do all of the following: grocery shop, cook, do laundry, clean, take care of the kids/help with homework, volunteer in the community/school…you’ll hate it!”
But our moms said “no, no—we got this! Watch us!”
But it turns out the nay-sayers weren’t wrong. At all.
As evidenced by the monologue.
I chose to stay at home and pour all my energy into the full-time job there. And I don’t feel that “expectation” that America Ferrera ranted about.
It honestly comes off as someone whining about getting what you signed up for!
Both the "nay-sayers" and you seem incapable of believing that a MAN could do some housework and childcare, thus relieving women of the "second shift" of doing all the childcare and housework after getting home from a full day of work.
We actually need a Ken movie to explain all this to men, but they'd never go see it. Heck, the Barbie move was REALLY a Ken movie but no one cares because we all just accept that men are going to do what they're going to do and then focus all our attention on what women should be doing but aren't.
Anonymous
11/19/2023 09:17
Subject: Barbie movie 'iconic' monologue is BS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I thought it was on point, OP.
Audiences may not have realized it, but the movie's entire goal is to show that Barbieland's matriarchy is just as stifling as the real world's patriarchy. That we have not yet found any way of living as equals, and may never do so. That some minority populations (Allan, weird Barbie, etc) will never find their place.
The conclusion is quite dark, actually, but because it's all wrapped in pink and smiles, a lot of people missed it.
I found this so obvious and the fact so many missed the point just shows how ignorant most are.
Yes!!!!!
I saw this movie with a girlfriend who has boys. My teen girls asked me what I thought—and I told them that, it was a fun movie that seemed to argue with itself ideologically.
In matriarchy-utopia, they literally had to distract the men to keep them from voting in order to vote the women into power. (News flash—plenty of men vote in the real world “patriarchy” annd their anre anctually lots of women in powerful elected offices AND in board rooms.)
Also Barbie and her friends were definitely “mean girls” in Barbieland. They do it with a smile and an oblivious attitude, but they still act as if the world revolves around them and they call the outcast “weird Barbie” and Alan is clearly ostracized from the cool Kens. Also she’s super-dismissive of doting Ken.—and this is okay to do to Ken, but objectionable when it’s done to her in “patriarchy real world?”
Also—the part where she goes to @real world” and the bit about how she expected to see only WOMEN at the construction site is laughable. Sure! In their Barbieland high heels?? (One of the main plots was that she was losing the ability to stand in her high heels…so somethjng was “wrong” in Barbieland.)
Just found most of it super cynical but comically so.
And then it occurred to me later that it was supposed to be.
It was supposed to be pointing out that neither is ideal.
That men and women actually need each other to create the symbiotic relationship required to make society work.
And I completely agree that making this clear was rhea Pearlman’s role in her long, long, walking ethereal God-like conversation with Barbie—but it was a weird ending…
And kind of ignored.
And also this
Anonymous
11/19/2023 09:17
Subject: Barbie movie 'iconic' monologue is BS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I thought it was on point, OP.
Audiences may not have realized it, but the movie's entire goal is to show that Barbieland's matriarchy is just as stifling as the real world's patriarchy. That we have not yet found any way of living as equals, and may never do so. That some minority populations (Allan, weird Barbie, etc) will never find their place.
The conclusion is quite dark, actually, but because it's all wrapped in pink and smiles, a lot of people missed it.
I found this so obvious and the fact so many missed the point just shows how ignorant most are.
Your take is very condescending and very dismissive...You are not the main character and we are not all stupid because we have different takes on this an other things
Get over yourself. You are not as clever as you think.
Anonymous
11/19/2023 09:14
Subject: Re:Barbie movie 'iconic' monologue is BS
Anonymous wrote:Questions for those who found the monologue accurate:
Who had these expectations of you?
Who is putting this pressure on you in your life?
My parents
My friends
My colleagues
My boss
Teachers at my kids school
When I was younger it was also the men in my dating pool and some of my male friends and colleagues, especially around expectations of appearance, needing to look sexually appealing but also to never cross an invisible line into "trashy" or to appear to be working too hard at looking attractive. Also my dad is very misogynist and he has always had really unrealistic expectations for me to "act like a man" which he thinks means having no feelings or problems, but also to fulfill a "traditionally" feminine role of always taking care of OTHER people's feelings and problems (which my dad does not perceive himself to have because of the aforementioned misogyny).
But as I've gotten older, and as I've gotten better and resisting those pressures, I think the pressure of expectations has shifted to come almost (but not quite) entirely from other women. Especially around motherhood. The judgment, criticism, and contradictory expectations from other women around being a mom suck. I wound up culling my friends after I had a baby because I had several friends who were just nothing but criticism and judgment and who needs that? No one, that's who.
Anonymous
11/19/2023 09:12
Subject: Re:Barbie movie 'iconic' monologue is BS
I don’t think it was “groundbreaking” except in that way when Hollywood wakes up to what has been reality for the last 50 years. That speech absolutely reflects my experience as a working mom on the wrong side of the attractiveness bell curve who isn’t entirely neurotypical and needs to sleep 8 hours a night. Of course, it wasn’t directed at me. I’ve realized I can’t win at the “woman in America” game a long time ago and opted out of even trying to pretend to play.
Anonymous
11/19/2023 09:05
Subject: Barbie movie 'iconic' monologue is BS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I didn't like the monologue either especially the beginning..."it's literally impossible to be a woman"
It's not impossible. I am one everyday. So much of it was the helpless, victim role, but women never acknowledge how we feed into it especially things like beauty standards, plastic surgery, etc. Women put that pressure on themselves.
Did you never study even a little feminism? I mean, The Beauty Myth has many flaws but it covered this ground 30 years ago -- and was required reading in my high school in the 90s.
I agree with a PP who thought the movie was pretty dark (though fun!) and the monologue is not really the point of the story. I wouldn't be shocked if it was a late addition.
I think it is a generational thing. As a Boomer, I thought the monologue was directed to Gen X women. My Gen X friends found the monologue to be very moving and touching, while my Boomer friends and I thought, basically, "No sh!t, Sherlock", and "Didn't we figure this out 50 years ago?"
That’s an interesting take.
I’m a GenX-er and I let out an audible laugh at this monologue because to me, it feeds right into what the boomers were told would happen (usually by men who were not pleased with the whole “women in the workplace” thing). “You won’t like it….” “You can’t do it ALL”, “We have division of labor in a household for a reason”, “running a home is a full-time job! You can’t expect to work 8-10 hours a day and come home with energy left over to do all of the following: grocery shop, cook, do laundry, clean, take care of the kids/help with homework, volunteer in the community/school…you’ll hate it!”
But our moms said “no, no—we got this! Watch us!”
But it turns out the nay-sayers weren’t wrong. At all.
As evidenced by the monologue.
I chose to stay at home and pour all my energy into the full-time job there. And I don’t feel that “expectation” that America Ferrera ranted about.
It honestly comes off as someone whining about getting what you signed up for!
I think the “you can’t do it all” is just BS to make people who can’t work and take care of their family and feel better.
Anonymous
11/19/2023 09:00
Subject: Barbie movie 'iconic' monologue is BS
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I didn't like the monologue either especially the beginning..."it's literally impossible to be a woman"
It's not impossible. I am one everyday. So much of it was the helpless, victim role, but women never acknowledge how we feed into it especially things like beauty standards, plastic surgery, etc. Women put that pressure on themselves.
Did you never study even a little feminism? I mean, The Beauty Myth has many flaws but it covered this ground 30 years ago -- and was required reading in my high school in the 90s.
I agree with a PP who thought the movie was pretty dark (though fun!) and the monologue is not really the point of the story. I wouldn't be shocked if it was a late addition.
I think it is a generational thing. As a Boomer, I thought the monologue was directed to Gen X women. My Gen X friends found the monologue to be very moving and touching, while my Boomer friends and I thought, basically, "No sh!t, Sherlock", and "Didn't we figure this out 50 years ago?"
That’s an interesting take.
I’m a GenX-er and I let out an audible laugh at this monologue because to me, it feeds right into what the boomers were told would happen (usually by men who were not pleased with the whole “women in the workplace” thing). “You won’t like it….” “You can’t do it ALL”, “We have division of labor in a household for a reason”, “running a home is a full-time job! You can’t expect to work 8-10 hours a day and come home with energy left over to do all of the following: grocery shop, cook, do laundry, clean, take care of the kids/help with homework, volunteer in the community/school…you’ll hate it!”
But our moms said “no, no—we got this! Watch us!”
But it turns out the nay-sayers weren’t wrong. At all.
As evidenced by the monologue.
I chose to stay at home and pour all my energy into the full-time job there. And I don’t feel that “expectation” that America Ferrera ranted about.
It honestly comes off as someone whining about getting what you signed up for!
Anonymous
11/19/2023 08:53
Subject: Re:Barbie movie 'iconic' monologue is BS
Anonymous wrote:It's not that no woman is happy or that you can't be an imperfect woman. The monologue is mainly just about how the expectations for women are constantly contradictory, and this makes it hard ("impossible") to feel like you are meeting expectations because no matter what you do, it's wrong.
Like I'm a thin woman and in theory this means I'm meeting societal beauty standards, but here's a short list of body shaming things I've heard about my thin body: real women have curves, you can't be that thin without an eating disorder, eat a sandwich, itty bitty titty committee, flat a$$, men don't like a woman without a little meat on her, skinny women age faster. That's my reward for being thin. It's great!
Similarly, women are pretty much universally expected to want to be mothers and the social pressure to have kids is quite great, but the minute you become a mom it's like people are annoyed at you for being a mom. They roll their eyes at moms who speak up for their kids but they criticize moms who don't "do enough" for them. Working moms are told they don't spend enough time with their kids, SAHMs are told they are lazy. A mom who is involved at school is a busy body and "bored" but a mom who isn't involved at school clearly isn't invested in their kid's education. Meanwhile, no one ever asks a man if he's going to keep working after he becomes a dad, and people used to walk up to my husband at the grocery store when he was there alone with our DD to tell him what a great dad he was.... for doing something I did all the time and no one seemed to care (or they'd be annoyed with me for bringing my kid to the grocery store).
And regarding work, women are told that they must be assertive to be taken seriously at work, but there is STILL a "likability" cost to women for assertiveness. I do feel this one has gotten better and that it's better in some fields than others, but it does still happen.
So I don't agree with every aspect of that monologue, but the gist of it definitely felt true to me. It's not that it's impossible to be a woman, it's that it's impossible to meet societal expectations for women because they are full of contradictions, and this keeps women feeling like we are failing all the time even when we're doing pretty well.
THIS.
I have so many examples of being thin shamed at work… Always by older boomer women. My husband has never had anything said about his weight or body at work I can assure you.
When my aunt found out about the gymnastics scandal, and Larry Nasser sexually abusing all those girls, she said, where were the mothers in all this… It’s ultimately their fault.
Anonymous
11/19/2023 08:49
Subject: Barbie movie 'iconic' monologue is BS
Anonymous wrote:I thought it was on point, OP.
Audiences may not have realized it, but the movie's entire goal is to show that Barbieland's matriarchy is just as stifling as the real world's patriarchy. That we have not yet found any way of living as equals, and may never do so. That some minority populations (Allan, weird Barbie, etc) will never find their place.
The conclusion is quite dark, actually, but because it's all wrapped in pink and smiles, a lot of people missed it.
I found this so obvious and the fact so many missed the point just shows how ignorant most are.
Anonymous
11/19/2023 08:47
Subject: Re:Barbie movie 'iconic' monologue is BS
Feel like you are WAAAY overthinking it.
From my perspective as a late 40s gen xer, it’s really simple: it’s a lot easier for a mediocre white man to get ahead or achieve success than for a mediocre or even above average woman.
Doesn’t mean that mediocre or above average women won’t get ahead… Or that every mediocre white man will achieve success… It’s just the odds are stacked against women for a number of reasons. I wouldn’t say America is an anti-woman hell scape, but I do think the playing field is not level, and day after day a year after year, it can get to you.
From my perspective as a late 40s gen xer, it’s really simple: it’s a lot easier for a mediocre white man to get ahead or achieve success than for a mediocre or even above average woman.
Doesn’t mean that mediocre or above average women won’t get ahead… Or that every mediocre white man will achieve success… It’s just the odds are stacked against women for a number of reasons. I wouldn’t say America is an anti-woman hell scape, but I do think the playing field is not level, and day after day a year after year, it can get to you.