Anonymous wrote:Interesting podcast out this week by Dartmouth’s Dean of Admission. While interviewing Yale’s Dean of Admission, Yale shares that SAT/ACT is actually more predictive of academic success than transcript at Yale (despite general surveys nationally showing the reverse). Dartmouth has found same as Yale. These findings are institution-specific and could be limited to these sorts of hyper competitive places. Yale found the math score to be particularly predictive for persistence as a science major. Dartmouth had indicated the same. Clark Univ. said transcript is more predictive for them.

My impression is that Yale and Dartmouth really want scores, especially students coming from underresourced backgrounds, from which, as discussed in podcast, an ACT score of 30, while low for the college, would show ability in context. They are concerned these students aren’t submitting because score is below 25th percentile for college. My prediction is that at least Yale and Dartmouth return to test required or at least more strongly encouraged (Dartmouth has already put out test preferred statement).
Not surprisingly, it sounded like although the scores are very important as a threshold matter for determining if student can succeed academically, it sounded like they aren’t that important once that threshold is crossed. This makes sense as they have too many able applicants.
Discussion starts at minute 6:10 with Yale’s statement at 9:12.

Data Dive, Part 2
https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/follow/admissions-beat-podcast

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The average SAT score is 1028. The average ACT score is 19.

Test scores are extremely predictive of college success. That's why there are a ton of scholarships available for high scores. You want a free ride to Alabama? 32-36 will do it. But test optional is not going away. Colleges love the extra applications. But don't think for a minute that your kid in Bethesda or Arlington can get away with not submitting test scores, unless they have some kind of hook.

For the elite schools, your white kid from the burbs is not getting in without a 1500+ or 34. Plus the 4.0. And what makes things annoying is that TO has bumped up average test scores to the stratosphere. It's tough out there.

Not true.
White kid. 33.
In at Cornell last year.

33 is a pretty good score

But I'm sure there was some kind of other hook. Rich? Athlete? Legacy?

33 is not good enough on its own for a white or asian kid. But it will get you everywhere if you're black or hispanic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The average SAT score is 1028. The average ACT score is 19.

Test scores are extremely predictive of college success. That's why there are a ton of scholarships available for high scores. You want a free ride to Alabama? 32-36 will do it. But test optional is not going away. Colleges love the extra applications. But don't think for a minute that your kid in Bethesda or Arlington can get away with not submitting test scores, unless they have some kind of hook.

For the elite schools, your white kid from the burbs is not getting in without a 1500+ or 34. Plus the 4.0. And what makes things annoying is that TO has bumped up average test scores to the stratosphere. It's tough out there.

Not true.
White kid. 33.
In at Cornell last year.

33 is a pretty good score

But I'm sure there was some kind of other hook. Rich? Athlete? Legacy?

33 is not good enough on its own for a white or asian kid. But it will get you everywhere if you're black or hispanic.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is one reason the PSAT awards are so valuable. If you get “commended” and/or NRSTRA/NAARA/NHRA/etc. you can’t report the award, reassuring the school that you’re over the bar, while still keeping your actual SAT score out of their CDS data.

Why would you do that though? If you are that good at the psat you are probably looking at upwards of 1500 on the SAT?

Anonymous wrote:This is one reason the PSAT awards are so valuable. If you get “commended” and/or NRSTRA/NAARA/NHRA/etc. you can’t report the award, reassuring the school that you’re over the bar, while still keeping your actual SAT score out of their CDS data.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:The average SAT score is 1028. The average ACT score is 19.

Test scores are extremely predictive of college success. That's why there are a ton of scholarships available for high scores. You want a free ride to Alabama? 32-36 will do it. But test optional is not going away. Colleges love the extra applications. But don't think for a minute that your kid in Bethesda or Arlington can get away with not submitting test scores, unless they have some kind of hook.

For the elite schools, your white kid from the burbs is not getting in without a 1500+ or 34. Plus the 4.0. And what makes things annoying is that TO has bumped up average test scores to the stratosphere. It's tough out there.

Not true.
White kid. 33.
In at Cornell last year.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Interesting podcast out this week by Dartmouth’s Dean of Admission. While interviewing Yale’s Dean of Admission, Yale shares that SAT/ACT is actually more predictive of academic success than transcript at Yale (despite general surveys nationally showing the reverse). Dartmouth has found same as Yale. These findings are institution-specific and could be limited to these sorts of hyper competitive places. Yale found the math score to be particularly predictive for persistence as a science major. Dartmouth had indicated the same. Clark Univ. said transcript is more predictive for them.

My impression is that Yale and Dartmouth really want scores, especially students coming from underresourced backgrounds, from which, as discussed in podcast, an ACT score of 30, while low for the college, would show ability in context. They are concerned these students aren’t submitting because score is below 25th percentile for college. My prediction is that at least Yale and Dartmouth return to test required or at least more strongly encouraged (Dartmouth has already put out test preferred statement).
Not surprisingly, it sounded like although the scores are very important as a threshold matter for determining if student can succeed academically, it sounded like they aren’t that important once that threshold is crossed. This makes sense as they have too many able applicants.
Discussion starts at minute 6:10 with Yale’s statement at 9:12.

Data Dive, Part 2
https://admissions.dartmouth.edu/follow/admissions-beat-podcast

My opinion as a formerly poor minority kid, is that removing SATs and ACTs from the admission process or lessening their weight, mostly hurts smart poor and minority kids and simply serves to help mediocre rich and upper middle class kids.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Thanks for sharing, interesting. Requiring scores also helps keep out the upper echelon riff raft. Those privileged over-counseled blood suckers go TO because they don’t have the chops.

LOL. As if plenty of 1500+ scores aren’t the result of intensive, expensive test prep and multiple tries. Come on.

Anonymous wrote:More evidence says high school performance is the strongest indicator.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is one reason the PSAT awards are so valuable. If you get “commended” and/or NRSTRA/NAARA/NHRA/etc. you can report the award, reassuring the school that you’re over the bar, while still keeping your actual SAT score out of their CDS data.

But then, most commended students will likely end up with high SAT scores anyways.. why wouldn't they report it?

You don't report it if the school's 50th percentile is 1550 from prior year and you have 1500 in current year with no other hooks. Don't want to give them an easy 'reject' trigger and hopefully going TO 'forces' them to take a closer look at your app before 'rejecting'.

I would submit the 1500 in this case. It's slightly below the median which has been jacked up by TO. It's a great score for the school in question and would backup excellent grades. I fail to understand all the posters on DCUM who are hung up on beating last year's 50th percentile. Has any school come out and recommended this?

It’s a surefire way to get dinged; presumption being the score is a 1300 or something if not submitted….

Are you in admissions?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is one reason the PSAT awards are so valuable. If you get “commended” and/or NRSTRA/NAARA/NHRA/etc. you can report the award, reassuring the school that you’re over the bar, while still keeping your actual SAT score out of their CDS data.

But then, most commended students will likely end up with high SAT scores anyways.. why wouldn't they report it?

You don't report it if the school's 50th percentile is 1550 from prior year and you have 1500 in current year with no other hooks. Don't want to give them an easy 'reject' trigger and hopefully going TO 'forces' them to take a closer look at your app before 'rejecting'.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is one reason the PSAT awards are so valuable. If you get “commended” and/or NRSTRA/NAARA/NHRA/etc. you can report the award, reassuring the school that you’re over the bar, while still keeping your actual SAT score out of their CDS data.

But then, most commended students will likely end up with high SAT scores anyways.. why wouldn't they report it?

You don't report it if the school's 50th percentile is 1550 from prior year and you have 1500 in current year with no other hooks. Don't want to give them an easy 'reject' trigger and hopefully going TO 'forces' them to take a closer look at your app before 'rejecting'.

I would submit the 1500 in this case. It's slightly below the median which has been jacked up by TO. It's a great score for the school in question and would backup excellent grades. I fail to understand all the posters on DCUM who are hung up on beating last year's 50th percentile. Has any school come out and recommended this?

It’s a surefire way to get dinged; presumption being the score is a 1300 or something if not submitted….

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:This is one reason the PSAT awards are so valuable. If you get “commended” and/or NRSTRA/NAARA/NHRA/etc. you can report the award, reassuring the school that you’re over the bar, while still keeping your actual SAT score out of their CDS data.

But then, most commended students will likely end up with high SAT scores anyways.. why wouldn't they report it?

You don't report it if the school's 50th percentile is 1550 from prior year and you have 1500 in current year with no other hooks. Don't want to give them an easy 'reject' trigger and hopefully going TO 'forces' them to take a closer look at your app before 'rejecting'.

I would submit the 1500 in this case. It's slightly below the median which has been jacked up by TO. It's a great score for the school in question and would backup excellent grades. I fail to understand all the posters on DCUM who are hung up on beating last year's 50th percentile. Has any school come out and recommended this?