Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Subscribe to the New Yorker and start listening to NPR!

NPR jumped the shark a long time ago.

OP, you can normally buy season tickets to theaters or concert halls, and this reduces the price substantially. There are still thoughtful books being published. It's more difficult to find media that is actually intellectual, but most of it is longform (podcasts).

For goodness sakes, yes. No one listens to it anymore

Take your kid to local theater, even productions by children, for affordable tickets. Play classical composers at home. Many museums have 1 free day per month. Go to local art shows and exhibits. These are all free or low-cost ways to introduce your child to culture and see what sticks.

If you're sending your kids the message that they need to be doctors or engineers in order to become successful, it'll be an uphill battle to raise children to be true intellectuals.
IME, true intellectuals are encouraged to value the arts, history, literature, and culture broadly--it's not just a hobby, but a serious and important part of being a human being. Of course, if your children end up being doctors or engineers, that's great, but you really have to instill in your kids that that's not the end-all, be-all of education.
Once you have that down, spend time reading the NYT, visit museums, go to the Kennedy Center, watch classic films together, etc. Enroll your kids in music and art lessons.

IMO, travel is one of the best ways to expose kids to new architecture, art, music, food and ideas. We devoted every spring break to traveling somewhere new, sometimes international sometimes domestic. My kids were always more receptive to museums, concerts, historical walking tours and such when we were traveling.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please forgive me if this is entirely ridiculous but I have nowhere else to ask and it’s bothering me.
I have to say I am an immigrant, for context. I’ve noticed that it is fairly difficult to “become cultured” here in the US. I don’t mean to criticize, just trying to gauge my observations. My son goes to public school and there is hardly any classics that they read, and it mostly depends on the teacher too. Seeing ballet or even a play that’s not local amateur level is very expensive. Museums are mostly natural history and not art museums, and if it’s art it’s mostly modern art. At least that’s true for where we live, and we have moved away from the DMV.
Anyway, I’ve become a little obsessed with what I call the NYC intellectuals. For me it’s the people from Woody Allen’s earlier movies with their clever puns and references and allusions to great works of art, and also some of the NPR programming like Wait Wait Don’t Tell Me and all the smart people there. I know it’s probably a very limited view
So anyway, my questions are two:
- what is considered cultured, refined, etc in the US?
- can a child who grew up far away from NYC become a true NYC intellectual? Or it’s just something only for 2nd+ Gen New Yorkers?

Again, I apologize for the limitations of my questions, I am trying to get a good understanding of intellectualism and “culturedness” (if that’s even a word) in the US but I don’t see much discussion honestly!

I don’t think that NYC intellectuals are really a thing anymore. We (doctor and journalist) live in NYC, and nowadays money rules - not culture.

Sad, but true!

I am curious if the whole NYC intelligentsia is result of a sort of branding effort. All large cities and metro areas have an intelligentsia class.

Anonymous wrote:I come from a western European country, and I've found that a lot of Americans lack culture. Back home, free museum days are mobbed, there are lots of free concerts in town squares, teens and young adults enjoy discounts to all sorts of cultural activities, traditional print media is still relatively popular and highlight shows and exhibitions, classic and modern. The news anchors aren't shy about skewering politicians, talking about international politics, difficult societal topics, etc.

The closest you can come to here is read a lot of newspapers (WSJ, NYT, WaPo, The New Yorker), go to old and new exhibits, listen to NPR and watch PBS Newshour (but those last don't really ask hard-hitting questions).

The problem is the USA is very self-absorbed, unlike smaller countries that look outward out of necessity. You really have to look for international politics. Maybe scour BBC News, not just the US section.

The problem is that in US the culture is not financially supported by the government as well as in Western (or even Eastern) Europe. The other problem is that where it is funded in US, the various grants requirements make it so only a particular type of artist can get through. Basically, everyone is looking to fund another Hamilton.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Culture is cultivated, not taught in schools. Likewise, children have to want to cultivate it or it won't really take.

+1

Culture is bred into you - you can not artificially create it.

But how does it happen for my kid, if
- I am not initially part of English language culture, though I am relatively well versed in it;
- I am in a somewhat of a cultural vacuum - there are cultured people from my old country but they aren’t much of a influence on my kid, and there is no local cultural scene really, and if there is, I am not part of it.

This thread has a lot of great advice though. Results not guaranteed but trying can be fun in itself!
-OP

“culture” really just means being curious about the world and interested in taking deep-dives into it. what interests you?

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:Please forgive me if this is entirely ridiculous but I have nowhere else to ask and it’s bothering me.
I have to say I am an immigrant, for context. I’ve noticed that it is fairly difficult to “become cultured” here in the US. I don’t mean to criticize, just trying to gauge my observations. My son goes to public school and there is hardly any classics that they read, and it mostly depends on the teacher too. Seeing ballet or even a play that’s not local amateur level is very expensive. Museums are mostly natural history and not art museums, and if it’s art it’s mostly modern art. At least that’s true for where we live, and we have moved away from the DMV.
Anyway, I’ve become a little obsessed with what I call the NYC intellectuals. For me it’s the people from Woody Allen’s earlier movies with their clever puns and references and allusions to great works of art, and also some of the NPR programming like Wait Wait Don’t Tell Me and all the smart people there. I know it’s probably a very limited view
So anyway, my questions are two:
- what is considered cultured, refined, etc in the US?
- can a child who grew up far away from NYC become a true NYC intellectual? Or it’s just something only for 2nd+ Gen New Yorkers?

Again, I apologize for the limitations of my questions, I am trying to get a good understanding of intellectualism and “culturedness” (if that’s even a word) in the US but I don’t see much discussion honestly!

I don’t think that NYC intellectuals are really a thing anymore. We (doctor and journalist) live in NYC, and nowadays money rules - not culture.

I agree, not a thing anymore, mainly because the pockets that used to have a concentration of educated people with middle class income (like what Park Slope and UWS used to be) don't exist anymore. The high stakes parenting is also in direct competition for the time that used to be spent on adult cultural stuff.

The key thing about culture is that it is just that -- culture. Culture being: "the customs, arts, social institutions, and achievements of a particular nation, people, or other social group." Emphasis on the second half of this sentence. The NYC intellectuals you refer to are basically members of a social class that existed in a particular place and time (well, sort of ... Woody Allen caricatures it all a bit). Certain things were interesting/important to them as a group, and that included a lot of knowledge of, and values that arise out of, what I think of as Western Civ. I don't know how you become a 1980s NYC intellectual (if they even really existed that clearly outside of Annie Hall), in 2023 St Louis (or wherever you are) -- because it is a very social thing, people were molded by the values and priorities and interests of those around them.

But agree with PPs that you can kind of start with The New Yorker. My grandparents, Texas versions of what you aspire to, had it on their coffee table and showed me the Charles Addams cartoons every week. At the age of 6 they took me to NYC and took me to a big Picasso exhibit. That early formative experience stirred enough interest in me in art that I have, over the course of my life, learned quite a bit about it. Modern Art anyway. I don't know -- figure out was is important to you about this notion of the NYC intellectual that you want to pass on (knowledge of art history? the definition of what good writing is? where our legal system came from? an understanding of how modern dance evolved from ballet and Anna Pavlova and Martha Graham have to do with it? why Oscar Wilde is funny? Or what?) and do so.

People point out that it can cost money to be "cultured," and yes, it cost money when my grandparents took me to MOMA in the 70s. But the internet really does democratize this all a bit.

I sure hope so. I don’t live in a major city (Midwestern suburb). I think it’s fine to do what you can where you are. Our local library has symphony members and other professional musicians come and perform for free. DS6 goes with me and listens very well and now plays violin. I take him into the city occasionally for “real” performances.

When we travel we go to museums and other cultural activities. At home, we read together and I also leave things around for him to read and browse that I like. The TV is rarely on and when it is we are watching well spoken, urbane people cook or chat, or he watches calmer math or language programs. We take advantage of “cultural fairs,” language events, festivals and the like locally.

In the car, we listen to famous performances that I purchase or check out from the library. He often gets in the car and asks to listen to Beethoven 5th Symphony.

My kid also loves going to local pubs and eating a hot dog, plays rec football, collects Pokémon cards. I think he is a normal kid and not a snob.

I do think it’s important to travel and for him to be exposed to other ideas and cultures. We try to make it to the east coast once a year and have started making international travel plans this year. It’s also important that YOU do things and model behaviors that you with to cultivate in your child.

I think this is part of why schools like NCS are so revered. All the grads I know work in commercial fields but have an amazing command of literature/culture/arts. Now if only you could get that without the anxiety and clubbiness

Someone previously hit the nail on the head when they talked about the move toward STEM as the be all and end all. Parents don’t want to pay for their kids to take arts and literature courses in college because those courses won’t get the kids well-paying jobs.

When all aspects of education are looked at through the lens of, “How does this enhance the ability to make a lot money?” then the arts and literature are left behind and seen as without value. Without a knowledge of and appreciation for the arts and literature, one can’t truly be a cultured person.

NYC eliminated all gifted and talented education (GATE) programs in public schools.

“NYC intellectual” will soon be an oxymoron.

I come from a western European country, and I've found that a lot of Americans lack culture. Back home, free museum days are mobbed, there are lots of free concerts in town squares, teens and young adults enjoy discounts to all sorts of cultural activities, traditional print media is still relatively popular and highlight shows and exhibitions, classic and modern. The news anchors aren't shy about skewering politicians, talking about international politics, difficult societal topics, etc.

The closest you can come to here is read a lot of newspapers (WSJ, NYT, WaPo, The New Yorker), go to old and new exhibits, listen to NPR and watch PBS Newshour (but those last don't really ask hard-hitting questions).

The problem is the USA is very self-absorbed, unlike smaller countries that look outward out of necessity. You really have to look for international politics. Maybe scour BBC News, not just the US section.