Anonymous
07/12/2024 20:21
Subject: Re:How much does SAT prep really help?
Anonymous wrote:DC went from 33 on his own to 35 with some test prep. Maybe five sessions. ACT is a fast test, so learning tricks and strategies was useful. I don't think he became more intelligent. Just smarter about how to take this particular test.
For the kind of schools he was interested in, it was very useful. But no tutor is going to turn a 23 into a 34. Or a 1040 into a 1510. A good tutor will help if the kid is self-disciplined to begin with and does all the studying and practice tests. And is motivated.
But if it's not there it's not there. A really motivated student will get 2-3 points on the ACT and 100-250 on the SAT if they have the disposition to do the work. SAT prep is not Jesus. Going to have to look elsewhere for miracles.
Yes and no. DC took diagnostic tests for ACT and SAT. Crushed the SAT verbal, but was 600 in math. The test preppers told us it is pretty hard to raise the math score by a significant amount on the SAT, so advised to do ACT. Again, amazing English/reading scores, but mid 20s for math/science. Worked with a tutor for 3 1/2 months junior early spring, took the ACT test, and scored a 34 overall. Their tutor strongly encouraged DC to take it one more time, but they said, "I'm not gonna get better than this - in fact, I was probably lucky to get this and taking it in a somewhat off time probably helped. I'm done."
Anonymous
07/12/2024 20:15
Subject: Re:How much does SAT prep really help?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I actually think the SAT is designed to weed out kids with learning disabilities. My kid doesn’t have LDs and did well on the SAT but has pointed out how oddly the questions are worded. He tutored peers at his high school and now in college and he’s never come across wording and question structure similar to the SAT on any exam or test.
Colleges are pretty bad at supporting LDs. Kids with LDs are statistically more likely to fail or drop out. It’s awful but admissions will flag essays that talk about mental health or LDs. College board is simply providing a service to the Universities by designing a test that ferrets these kids out without exposing the university to a lawsuit.
It also helps the College Board stay relevant and supports the ecosystem around it. The prep courses focus on the oddity of the questions. If the questions weren’t structured this way, prep companies wouldn’t be able to promise higher scores. As prep is expensive, kids with more money score higher.
So now simply by structuring the questions in a particular way, college board has made it very likely that wealthy kids without LDs will score high and poor kids or kids with LDs will score very low following the pre established pattern of who does well in college. The test isn’t the predictor. The test was designed to mirror the already established pattern.
You made the point without even realizing it - if your kid cannot adapt and learn how to take these standardized tests, why should anyone believe that they CAN adapt and learn how to successfully complete all of the new, unfamiliar requirements that will be thrown at them as a college student?
How do I tell you I am an a$$ without telling you I am an a$$....
Anonymous
07/12/2024 20:14
Subject: How much does SAT prep really help?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have a DD who ranks in the top of her public high school, gets straight A's in rigorous classes and 5's in her AP exams.
We hired an expensive, one-on-one tutor to work with her on SAT practice. Her actual exam grade was only something like 30 points higher than her first practice exam.
It was a total waste of time.
What were the before and after scores?
I left those out. You can ask or assume, but that's private.
But it matters. If she was at 1470, the room for growth is pretty narrow, and 30 points got her to 1500, which is an important threshold for some schools. If she was at 1270, yes, 30 points is disappointing for all of that work.
So you understand, without my needing to supply those details.
But your statement is pointless if you don't tell us "which of those it is". You are complaining, and we don't know if you are being ridiculous or not. The fact you won't post that means you just want to stir the pot. It's anonymous. Absolutely no reasonable reason for you not to give ALL THE FACTS
Firstly I find this response more than a little aggressive. My rationale for keeping the numbers private is because there is always some twat on here ready to mock / disparage someone else's kid. Maybe that person is you, I don't know, perhaps that fits with your urgent desire to know my DD's stats. Have a night off, get a drink, kick up your heels and watch some TV.
Anonymous
07/12/2024 20:11
Subject: Re:How much does SAT prep really help?
DC went from 33 on his own to 35 with some test prep. Maybe five sessions. ACT is a fast test, so learning tricks and strategies was useful. I don't think he became more intelligent. Just smarter about how to take this particular test.
For the kind of schools he was interested in, it was very useful. But no tutor is going to turn a 23 into a 34. Or a 1040 into a 1510. A good tutor will help if the kid is self-disciplined to begin with and does all the studying and practice tests. And is motivated.
But if it's not there it's not there. A really motivated student will get 2-3 points on the ACT and 100-250 on the SAT if they have the disposition to do the work. SAT prep is not Jesus. Going to have to look elsewhere for miracles.
For the kind of schools he was interested in, it was very useful. But no tutor is going to turn a 23 into a 34. Or a 1040 into a 1510. A good tutor will help if the kid is self-disciplined to begin with and does all the studying and practice tests. And is motivated.
But if it's not there it's not there. A really motivated student will get 2-3 points on the ACT and 100-250 on the SAT if they have the disposition to do the work. SAT prep is not Jesus. Going to have to look elsewhere for miracles.
Anonymous
07/12/2024 19:56
Subject: Re:How much does SAT prep really help?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I actually think the SAT is designed to weed out kids with learning disabilities. My kid doesn’t have LDs and did well on the SAT but has pointed out how oddly the questions are worded. He tutored peers at his high school and now in college and he’s never come across wording and question structure similar to the SAT on any exam or test.
Colleges are pretty bad at supporting LDs. Kids with LDs are statistically more likely to fail or drop out. It’s awful but admissions will flag essays that talk about mental health or LDs. College board is simply providing a service to the Universities by designing a test that ferrets these kids out without exposing the university to a lawsuit.
It also helps the College Board stay relevant and supports the ecosystem around it. The prep courses focus on the oddity of the questions. If the questions weren’t structured this way, prep companies wouldn’t be able to promise higher scores. As prep is expensive, kids with more money score higher.
So now simply by structuring the questions in a particular way, college board has made it very likely that wealthy kids without LDs will score high and poor kids or kids with LDs will score very low following the pre established pattern of who does well in college. The test isn’t the predictor. The test was designed to mirror the already established pattern.
You made the point without even realizing it - if your kid cannot adapt and learn how to take these standardized tests, why should anyone believe that they CAN adapt and learn how to successfully complete all of the new, unfamiliar requirements that will be thrown at them as a college student?
College professors don't give you vague general knowledge questions, though. Double majored in Physics and History, and the prompts/exam questions were always crystal clear, unless you get the occasional "write about the course content" which you then workshop with a professor. The SAT just wants to trip you up and is not a quality college entrance exam.
Anonymous
07/12/2024 19:51
Subject: Re:How much does SAT prep really help?
DC went from a 1210 to a 1590 with 3 months of intense prep. I say it's worth it. He didn't get smarter, just learned the stupid test.
Anonymous
07/12/2024 19:43
Subject: How much does SAT prep really help?
From 1300 psat beginning of 9th grade with no prep to 1570 sat beginning of 11th grade with khan’s and two week group class
Anonymous
07/12/2024 16:58
Subject: How much does SAT prep really help?
Junior year, my kid went from 1310 (no prep, August)-1470 (self prep +online group class, May)-1510 (more self prep, June). Done. They were motivated to do improve their score.
Other kid went from 32 to 34 on ACT with a class and then some 1:1 tutoring. They were not as self-motivated despite wanting a better score. But they got to their goal of 34. At a top 15 LAC.
Other kid went from 32 to 34 on ACT with a class and then some 1:1 tutoring. They were not as self-motivated despite wanting a better score. But they got to their goal of 34. At a top 15 LAC.
Anonymous
07/12/2024 15:52
Subject: How much does SAT prep really help?
Signed DS for prep class this summer. Payment due day begore the June results came out (of course). DS got math score of 770 (went up 120 points) and sat class called yo say they couldn’t do anything for his math score at that point, refunded 1/2 $$ and now he just goes to verbal part. All of this to say there is definitely a limit to how high scores can get, even with very good tutoring.
Anonymous
07/12/2024 15:26
Subject: How much does SAT prep really help?
My ds scored 980 on a diagnostic test. We both actually lolled. He has done a combination of one-on-one tutoring plus some personal prep system he set up online. In the course of 10 months he is up to a 1270 (1300 super score between a practice and spring SAT) and his goal is to score in 1300s in August.
We will see. He had a ton of room for growth and it gets harder as you go up.
He goes to a meh high school where the average SAT is about 1050.
We will see. He had a ton of room for growth and it gets harder as you go up.
He goes to a meh high school where the average SAT is about 1050.
Anonymous
07/12/2024 14:44
Subject: How much does SAT prep really help?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is why the SAT and ACT are such a joke. The more money and time you spend on test prep, the higher the score. Sure, free Khan Academy can help. But parents with money and ambition are doing classes, one-on-one coaching and prep, with 250/hour tutors. A farce to say this measures intelligence or college readiness.
Guess what else involves a commitment of time and money? College.
Maybe trade school placement is a more suitable option for individuals who cannot perform to certain levels on standardized tests, which ARE predictive of college preparedness and readiness.
My 1200 kid started there, did tons of 1-1 tutoring and got nowhere (think 6 months plus, back when scores were required). They have ADHD and no executive functioning so testing is challenging. Add in anxiety and it's a shitshow at times.
They went to a T80 university, with excellent merit, graduated with a 3.7+, started a job immediately with an excellent company (one that only 11% of applicants make it past the initial testing). SAT is not predictive of college preparedness and readiness. That kid has the people skills and drive to excel. Once someone meets them and works with them, they 1000% want my kid on their team. We always knew they just needed to get their degree and first job and then they will excel after that. We were accurate. Now no employer cares what their SAT was or even their college gpa (2 years+ out of college). They have stellar references and are performing well
Your son is an exception, not part of some vast population that constitute a rule. Read the U-T report on stark grade outcomes that led to their immediate resumption of a standardized testing requirement of each applicant during the admissions process.
Anonymous
07/12/2024 14:41
Subject: Re:How much does SAT prep really help?
Anonymous wrote:I actually think the SAT is designed to weed out kids with learning disabilities. My kid doesn’t have LDs and did well on the SAT but has pointed out how oddly the questions are worded. He tutored peers at his high school and now in college and he’s never come across wording and question structure similar to the SAT on any exam or test.
Colleges are pretty bad at supporting LDs. Kids with LDs are statistically more likely to fail or drop out. It’s awful but admissions will flag essays that talk about mental health or LDs. College board is simply providing a service to the Universities by designing a test that ferrets these kids out without exposing the university to a lawsuit.
It also helps the College Board stay relevant and supports the ecosystem around it. The prep courses focus on the oddity of the questions. If the questions weren’t structured this way, prep companies wouldn’t be able to promise higher scores. As prep is expensive, kids with more money score higher.
So now simply by structuring the questions in a particular way, college board has made it very likely that wealthy kids without LDs will score high and poor kids or kids with LDs will score very low following the pre established pattern of who does well in college. The test isn’t the predictor. The test was designed to mirror the already established pattern.
You made the point without even realizing it - if your kid cannot adapt and learn how to take these standardized tests, why should anyone believe that they CAN adapt and learn how to successfully complete all of the new, unfamiliar requirements that will be thrown at them as a college student?
Anonymous
07/12/2024 14:34
Subject: Re:How much does SAT prep really help?
I actually think the SAT is designed to weed out kids with learning disabilities. My kid doesn’t have LDs and did well on the SAT but has pointed out how oddly the questions are worded. He tutored peers at his high school and now in college and he’s never come across wording and question structure similar to the SAT on any exam or test.
Colleges are pretty bad at supporting LDs. Kids with LDs are statistically more likely to fail or drop out. It’s awful but admissions will flag essays that talk about mental health or LDs. College board is simply providing a service to the Universities by designing a test that ferrets these kids out without exposing the university to a lawsuit.
It also helps the College Board stay relevant and supports the ecosystem around it. The prep courses focus on the oddity of the questions. If the questions weren’t structured this way, prep companies wouldn’t be able to promise higher scores. As prep is expensive, kids with more money score higher.
So now simply by structuring the questions in a particular way, college board has made it very likely that wealthy kids without LDs will score high and poor kids or kids with LDs will score very low following the pre established pattern of who does well in college. The test isn’t the predictor. The test was designed to mirror the already established pattern.
Colleges are pretty bad at supporting LDs. Kids with LDs are statistically more likely to fail or drop out. It’s awful but admissions will flag essays that talk about mental health or LDs. College board is simply providing a service to the Universities by designing a test that ferrets these kids out without exposing the university to a lawsuit.
It also helps the College Board stay relevant and supports the ecosystem around it. The prep courses focus on the oddity of the questions. If the questions weren’t structured this way, prep companies wouldn’t be able to promise higher scores. As prep is expensive, kids with more money score higher.
So now simply by structuring the questions in a particular way, college board has made it very likely that wealthy kids without LDs will score high and poor kids or kids with LDs will score very low following the pre established pattern of who does well in college. The test isn’t the predictor. The test was designed to mirror the already established pattern.
Anonymous
07/12/2024 14:21
Subject: How much does SAT prep really help?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:This is why the SAT and ACT are such a joke. The more money and time you spend on test prep, the higher the score. Sure, free Khan Academy can help. But parents with money and ambition are doing classes, one-on-one coaching and prep, with 250/hour tutors. A farce to say this measures intelligence or college readiness.
Guess what else involves a commitment of time and money? College.
Maybe trade school placement is a more suitable option for individuals who cannot perform to certain levels on standardized tests, which ARE predictive of college preparedness and readiness.
My 1200 kid started there, did tons of 1-1 tutoring and got nowhere (think 6 months plus, back when scores were required). They have ADHD and no executive functioning so testing is challenging. Add in anxiety and it's a shitshow at times.
They went to a T80 university, with excellent merit, graduated with a 3.7+, started a job immediately with an excellent company (one that only 11% of applicants make it past the initial testing). SAT is not predictive of college preparedness and readiness. That kid has the people skills and drive to excel. Once someone meets them and works with them, they 1000% want my kid on their team. We always knew they just needed to get their degree and first job and then they will excel after that. We were accurate. Now no employer cares what their SAT was or even their college gpa (2 years+ out of college). They have stellar references and are performing well
Anonymous
07/12/2024 14:16
Subject: How much does SAT prep really help?
Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:Anonymous wrote:I have a DD who ranks in the top of her public high school, gets straight A's in rigorous classes and 5's in her AP exams.
We hired an expensive, one-on-one tutor to work with her on SAT practice. Her actual exam grade was only something like 30 points higher than her first practice exam.
It was a total waste of time.
What were the before and after scores?
I left those out. You can ask or assume, but that's private.
But it matters. If she was at 1470, the room for growth is pretty narrow, and 30 points got her to 1500, which is an important threshold for some schools. If she was at 1270, yes, 30 points is disappointing for all of that work.
So you understand, without my needing to supply those details.
But your statement is pointless if you don't tell us "which of those it is". You are complaining, and we don't know if you are being ridiculous or not. The fact you won't post that means you just want to stir the pot. It's anonymous. Absolutely no reasonable reason for you not to give ALL THE FACTS