Anonymous
Post 09/26/2023 13:08     Subject: 150k/yr is bad now
Anonymous wrote:
Biden has run the country into a ditch.


I’m not a particularly big fan of Biden, but our current issues are much larger than one person, even if he is the president. We’ve become an oligarchy, where the labor of the many feeds the wealth of the few. We’ve seen immense productivity gains in the last few decades, but they haven’t gone to the working and middle classes. We’re approaching a tipping point, and it won’t be pretty.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2023 12:52     Subject: 150k/yr is bad now

Biden has run the country into a ditch.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2023 12:42     Subject: 150k/yr is bad now
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A third of Americans earning $150,000 a year or more say they're living paycheck to paycheck and many rely on credit cards to close the gap, per Moneywise!

150k is the new 20k


And these people are unwilling to make sacrifices. No sympathy whatsoever.


The standard for being middle class has changed. It used to be going to ok public schools and living in a 1,100 sq ft house. Now it's: 3,000 sq ft house, fly everywhere, good schools, centrally located, latest electronic, refuse to get college paid via GI bill, 50k new car, etc.


Your post 100%

Normal sized single family homes, those under 2,000 sq ft, are not being built anymore.

Flying everywhere is a new thing too. When I was a kid, flying out west every couple years, to see my grandparents, was a big deal. Other than those trips, vacations were Ocean City.

Our son bailed us out on college by joining the military. We had almost enough saved for a state school. By joining the military, he is going to receive 40k in bonuses his first year, in addition to his salary, and they will pay for his college. Also, he is getting hands-on experience in his field. I know the military isn’t for everyone, but it’s definitely worth considering.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2023 12:33     Subject: 150k/yr is bad now
Anonymous wrote:anything under 200k for family of 4 is lower middle class.


Poster from McLean or Potomac chiming in.

200k depends. We are at just over 200k and we are fine. That said we have a small house (by today’s standard) with an even smaller mortgage. This helps a ton. If we were in the market today, without equity, or family help, buying a home would be tough.

With our salary, we have our home, take one nice vacation per year, with other local trips too, have two newer cars, college savings and retirement that’s in decent shape- probably should have invested more earlier, but we made almost nothing in our 20s. Lesson learned is that even if you make nothing, something invested into an IRA or 401k is better than nothing.

Long post, but to OP, 150k only feels paltry because of lifestyle creep. We are guilty of it too. Cable TV, four iPhones, couple trips overseas, Netflix, Spotify, iCloud…crap adds up. At our salary, we realize we can’t have it all. Where we cut/save is shopping at Aldi, going to thrift stores for clothes- daughter turned me onto this, and not eating out a lot. Not eating out is the easiest to give up- it’s so expensive and usually not that great.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2023 12:12     Subject: 150k/yr is bad now
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A third of Americans earning $150,000 a year or more say they're living paycheck to paycheck and many rely on credit cards to close the gap, per Moneywise!

150k is the new 20k


And these people are unwilling to make sacrifices. No sympathy whatsoever.


The standard for being middle class has changed. It used to be going to ok public schools and living in a 1,100 sq ft house. Now it's: 3,000 sq ft house, fly everywhere, good schools, centrally located, latest electronic, refuse to get college paid via GI bill, 50k new car, etc.


Public school and a 1,100 sq ft home is barely attainable on 150k in this area.


I'm a GS 11 fed making a whopping 90k and do just fine living in suburbia. I'm also a single parent of a teenager and not receiving child support.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2023 11:53     Subject: Re:150k/yr is bad now
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The cost of childcare in some states now exceeds the cost of some in state public colleges.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2023/09/25/cost-of-raising-a-child-college-tuition-car-childcare/70930351007/


I think both childcare and college should be subsidized heavily by the government, but I don’t understand why this is surprising. The cumulative hours a kid in daycare spends being cared for is probably 3-4x the amount a college kid spends in class![/quot

College and childcare are subsidized.


Who is subsidizing my $5k/month daycare bill for my toddler and infant?


Every taxpayer without kids in daycare care.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2023 10:42     Subject: 150k/yr is bad now
the problem is that taxes take 1/3 to 1/2 of your income. For food shelter and clothes there should be no federal or state taxes w/ no cap.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2023 10:31     Subject: 150k/yr is bad now
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:A third of Americans earning $150,000 a year or more say they're living paycheck to paycheck and many rely on credit cards to close the gap, per Moneywise!

150k is the new 20k


And these people are unwilling to make sacrifices. No sympathy whatsoever.


The standard for being middle class has changed. It used to be going to ok public schools and living in a 1,100 sq ft house. Now it's: 3,000 sq ft house, fly everywhere, good schools, centrally located, latest electronic, refuse to get college paid via GI bill, 50k new car, etc.


Public school and a 1,100 sq ft home is barely attainable on 150k in this area.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2023 10:31     Subject: Re:150k/yr is bad now
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The cost of childcare in some states now exceeds the cost of some in state public colleges.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2023/09/25/cost-of-raising-a-child-college-tuition-car-childcare/70930351007/


I think both childcare and college should be subsidized heavily by the government, but I don’t understand why this is surprising. The cumulative hours a kid in daycare spends being cared for is probably 3-4x the amount a college kid spends in class![/quot

College and childcare are subsidized.


Who is subsidizing my $5k/month daycare bill for my toddler and infant?
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2023 10:29     Subject: Re:150k/yr is bad now
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The cost of childcare in some states now exceeds the cost of some in state public colleges.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2023/09/25/cost-of-raising-a-child-college-tuition-car-childcare/70930351007/


I think both childcare and college should be subsidized heavily by the government, but I don’t understand why this is surprising. The cumulative hours a kid in daycare spends being cared for is probably 3-4x the amount a college kid spends in class![/quot

College and childcare are subsidized.
Anonymous
Post 09/26/2023 10:26     Subject: 150k/yr is bad now
I had a 165k in 2021. I got laid off my 330k job in Covid and took it as unemployed for a few months.

I put 60 percent down on my house in 2017 and had a 3.65 rate. I had three cars no loans. With three kids and two in college here was my bills
$4,000 a month House (mortgage, prop tax and insurance.
$1,000 a month home maint, repairs and utilities
$6,000 a month tuition (cheap for two kids due to merit aid)
$3,000 a month food, clothes, unexpected bills, car repair, car insurance, dental.

So I was running $14,000 a month bills. And we stopped eating out, taking vacations etc. I also cut my 401k contribution just to the match.

I was pulling $6,000 a month from savings.

It was easy on 330k and could even max 401k.

I now have a $230k job and only one kid in college. I also did moonlighting in a second job I will clear 50k. At 280k not bad. But ti be honest 300k is what I need to pay bills, go on vacations, go out to dinner, buy cars etc.

Anonymous
Post 09/25/2023 18:47     Subject: 150k/yr is bad now
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:…it isn’t short term inflation that gives you the impression $150k is bad. Also, it is still a freaking great salary in the grand scheme of things. Plenty to live on. Not sure where you’re coming from.


150k now is 120k in 2016 dollars according to CPI, 20% decline but other costs have gone up 30-40% since then like cars, housing, food, then if you include higher interest rates for mortgages this can effectively be a 50-100% cost increase. So for certain things 150k is like 75k just several years ago.

100% increase is a little nuts and afaik not backed up by facts. However one big thing you're noting is why we have to take on this as public policy -- cost of housing both to rent and to purchase is batshit insane and is in many ways the expense that makes people feel their pay isn't enough. Those of us who were privileged to be older millennials with stable jobs who could buy at the bottom of the market post 2008, and refinance to a freaking low rate are in a different financial position from someone who doesn't own now and is facing higher and higher rents. We need more housing, we need more housing that is available, attainable, and afforable to those at all income levels.



True, but you know who is first in line to decry the building of more affordable housing for working and lower middle and even middle class people?

The people who lucked into the timing of buying during the bottom of the market in post-2008, refinanced to a sub 3% rate in the last few years, and are now living in homes they bought for 400k that are worth 1.4m. Those folks (you) see the dollar signs from their "smart financial choices" (read: incredibly fortunate timing) lining up and don't like the idea of building additional housing that might impact how that works out for them. Y'all are looking at early retirement, selling out to go mortgage free. Some of you snapped up multiple properties, or have pre-marital properties you've held onto and rented out, and now you're thinking about passive income and quitting the rat race altogether.

You don't want affordable housing. You're capitalists now. You want high rents and high housing prices.


400 to 1.4 m is an exaggeration. We bought at 460 sub 3% and now it’s around 600. But what does it matter if I can’t sell it to anyone and buy somewhere else without taking a 100k interest hit. Market is frozen. That money is a mirage.


400k in 2009 to 1.4k in 2023 is not an exaggeration in some neighborhoods. I know people who bought on the Hill in 2009ish for around 300k who could sell for a million now, and that is without additional upgrades. Depends a bit on where in the neighborhood and and school zones, but not unheard of. If you move up the ladder a bit, it can be even more. There's a house in Eastern Market that sold in 2009 for 700k -- a lot but very manageable for dual Big Law or consulting. It sold last year for 2 million. Zero upgrades. $1.3m net -- okay fine let's subtract closing costs and other expenses, $1.2m. For nothing. And now the sellers can take their profit (including the equity built over 14 years) and roll into a 4 bedroom house in a good school district that they can buy outright, so who cares about interest rates.

There were some BIG winners in the real estate cycle from 2008-2023. But the thing that is frustrating for people who didn't get to participate in it on even modest levels is that there was no bust. There's no sell off. That house that sold for 2 million last year is probably worth 2.1 this year. For no reason other than limited inventory.

So it's frustrating to get financial advice from people who had the timing for that. Their advice is basically "be born 10 years earlier, have more capital." Okay, I'll get right on that.


Why tf do you care if some people won big in real estate? Some people won big in bitcoin. Some people won big in the dry cleaning business. Some people won big in Apple stock. Stop whining and go live your life.
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2023 18:33     Subject: Re:150k/yr is bad now
Anonymous wrote:
Anonymous wrote:The cost of childcare in some states now exceeds the cost of some in state public colleges.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2023/09/25/cost-of-raising-a-child-college-tuition-car-childcare/70930351007/


I think both childcare and college should be subsidized heavily by the government, but I don’t understand why this is surprising. The cumulative hours a kid in daycare spends being cared for is probably 3-4x the amount a college kid spends in class!


My daycare is far more expensive than full tuition at UMD.
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2023 18:07     Subject: Re:150k/yr is bad now
Anonymous wrote:The cost of childcare in some states now exceeds the cost of some in state public colleges.

https://www.usatoday.com/story/money/personalfinance/2023/09/25/cost-of-raising-a-child-college-tuition-car-childcare/70930351007/


I think both childcare and college should be subsidized heavily by the government, but I don’t understand why this is surprising. The cumulative hours a kid in daycare spends being cared for is probably 3-4x the amount a college kid spends in class!
Anonymous
Post 09/25/2023 18:00     Subject: 150k/yr is bad now
When I got hired for my dream job in the corporate work place in 2000, I made $55k a year. I was somewhat surprised that my newly college graduate would be making $130K. I chalked it up to inflation, but then found this calculator.

According to this, my circa 2000 $55k would only be $100k today. So yep he still has me beat

https://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/cpicalc.pl