No. I do feel for the kids if bedtime prevents them from engaging in other developmentally appropriate activities with peers.

15 and 11 DSs have bedtimes and no electronics time. Both are supposed to be in bed about 9:30. All electronics are block by 11/11:30 depending on the day and kid. One uses the sounds (movie, music, etc.) to fall asleep to. He isn't actually looking at the screen. Yes, I do check on them on occasion. I don't stop them from reading a book if they still can't sleep. They can ask for more time if they are really struggling getting to sleep. On the weekends, phones are left unblocked. The 11 yr old does have content limits on it. They are normally sleep by 10:30/11:30 depending on the kid and day. The 15 yr old realizes that without the rules he would stay up and online and be miserable the next day. I don't really care who judges or why. This is what works for my family.

Anonymous wrote:I mean, like teenagers. Are the parents considered to “helicopter” or “tiger “ if they still do this?

No I don’t judge this. Do you? If mine would listen I would enforce.

“No. It's none of my business and doesn't affect me in any way.

This is the correct answer and should have been the end of the thread”

Speak for yourself. I also have kids who turn into unpleasant ogres without adequate sleep. They’re cranky, disorganized, and not generally pleasant to be around. Luckily, they also realized this and by late middle school followed self imposed regular bedtimes. But we occasionally need to remind/encourage this if they get off track and we see it affecting them. NBD - we’re just doing some light support of a good habit so it’s pretty firm by the time they get to college.

Anonymous wrote:How do you enforce a bedtime for a high schooler or even a middle schooler? That’s what I’m not understanding.

I have a certain time they can’t be online or making noise around the house. I can’t physically force my teens to fall asleep. I can make suggestions and cut internet access but that’s about it at this age. I’m not in there reading them stories until they fall asleep anymore.

The parents who enforce a bedtime I think really mean they cut off electronics and have quiet hours. That’s actually different.

They'll most likely go to bed if they don't have access to their phones. You may not be able to control when they actually fall asleep, but you can create an environment where they won't be so distracted, typically by electronics, such that they have a hard time falling asleep.

I'm a parent of 15 and 18 yr old. If you enforce these types of sleep habits from early on, they will adhere to it on their own as they get older. My 18 yr old is now in college, and DC specifically looked for a roommate who also prioritized sleep and did not stay up late at night.

I had horrible sleep habits as a child. My parents never enforced good sleep habits or bed time when I was growing up. Really f*up my sleep habits for a long time.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, because sleep is the glue that holds people together. I judge parents who are highly-educated and *don't* pay attention to something as fundamental as their children's sleep needs.

I don’t judge others on this. But my parents, who are lovely, did not impose bedtimes and didn’t care if my bedtime was all over the place. I am a horrible sleeper and it is very hard to develop good habits as an adult.

So, we do impose bedtime strictly. But honestly, after years of it, DS now prefers it. He is 15 and goes to bed on his own by 9:45, maybe later on weekends. We started keeping his phone in our room at bedtime in middle school and he just puts it there now on his own. He does play year round sports, so I think he’s just sleepy. I love that he prioritizes sleep. It makes him much more relaxed and healthier.

I also have a 15 year old that knows her sleep needs are high and doesn't fight a bedtime that is a lot earlier than her peers. If she were a night owl and couldn't fall asleep at 9:30-10 we wouldn't force her, but that's just how she is and I think it's great because they all have to get up early for HS

Anonymous wrote:Lol, I judge parents who let their teens stay up until all hours, and with their phones!

This

Is op a 14 yo jonesing for more social media time at night?

Anonymous wrote:I mean, like teenagers. Are the parents considered to “helicopter” or “tiger “ if they still do this?

No

It’s a health issue.

And executive functioning skill- to go to bed on time, manage your time, be ready for the next day’s demands.

Anonymous wrote:I mean, like teenagers. Are the parents considered to “helicopter” or “tiger “ if they still do this?

I can honestly say I have never spent a moment -other than to respond to this- thinking about what other parents do about their teen's bedtime.

No way! Sleeping late and waking up early is very unhealthy for teens.

Anonymous wrote:No, because sleep is the glue that holds people together. I judge parents who are highly-educated and *don't* pay attention to something as fundamental as their children's sleep needs.

I don’t judge others on this. But my parents, who are lovely, did not impose bedtimes and didn’t care if my bedtime was all over the place. I am a horrible sleeper and it is very hard to develop good habits as an adult.

So, we do impose bedtime strictly. But honestly, after years of it, DS now prefers it. He is 15 and goes to bed on his own by 9:45, maybe later on weekends. We started keeping his phone in our room at bedtime in middle school and he just puts it there now on his own. He does play year round sports, so I think he’s just sleepy. I love that he prioritizes sleep. It makes him much more relaxed and healthier.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids need to be up by 6:30. They are 11 and 13. I showed them the recommendation by the AAP and they worked backwards themselves. They get 10 and 9 hours respectively. So 8:30 and 9:30 bedtimes, on weeknights. They don't have a bedtime on weekends.

I can't convey how much better behaved my kids are in public compared to a lot of their friends/cousins - and we aren't particularly strict about anything but sleep and screens.

This is something I do judge for, kids that close in age should not have different bedtimes especially if they both have to get up at the same time, it's not fair to the younger sibling.

Pp here. In this particular case, the younger one just has always needed way more sleep. For example, she slept 12 hrs as a 1st grader. She even napped at age 6. But I agree with you usually. The younger sibling goes to bed without complaint and no prodding (whereas we definitely have to encourage the 13 year old).

I likely would have just went with 9 for both of them.

As a point of reference, I went to boarding school and had plenty of responsibility re getting up, etc. but 9th and 10th graders had lights out at 10. If we had an assignment we had to ask for “late lights” to keep our lights on past then. After that it was up to you to figure out an appropriate bedtime.

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:My kids need to be up by 6:30. They are 11 and 13. I showed them the recommendation by the AAP and they worked backwards themselves. They get 10 and 9 hours respectively. So 8:30 and 9:30 bedtimes, on weeknights. They don't have a bedtime on weekends.

I can't convey how much better behaved my kids are in public compared to a lot of their friends/cousins - and we aren't particularly strict about anything but sleep and screens.

This is something I do judge for, kids that close in age should not have different bedtimes especially if they both have to get up at the same time, it's not fair to the younger sibling.

Pp here. In this particular case, the younger one just has always needed way more sleep. For example, she slept 12 hrs as a 1st grader. She even napped at age 6. But I agree with you usually. The younger sibling goes to bed without complaint and no prodding (whereas we definitely have to encourage the 13 year old).

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:

Anonymous wrote:No, because sleep is the glue that holds people together. I judge parents who are highly-educated and *don't* pay attention to something as fundamental as their children's sleep needs.

+2

I don’t understand parents who provide no reliable day-to-day structure for their kids. Isn’t that called neglect?

You do understand that bedtime is not the only way to provide structure, though, right? It seems like you don't, so here are some things that provide structure that don't require people to tell other people whether they're tired.

Family meals
School
Daily chores
Team or group activities
Jobs
Church

First PP - sure, but sleep is fundamental to health in ways that the above list generally is not. It's not about "telling other people whether they're tired," it's about valuing the importance of sleep and teaching your kids healthy sleep habits.

Well, A, the comment was about structure, so I responded with fun facts about structure.

B, if you're teaching kids to be healthy, they should be learning to listen to their bodies and learning what they need to do to get enough sleep.

I have signed up for each of my kids' colleges' FB groups, and the number of parents who don't trust their kids to figure out the elements of physical, mental, social, and emotional health -- that is, food, sleep, academics, personal interactions, etc? The mind reels.

Parents: Turn over as much responsibility to your kids as soon as you reasonably can. Accept that they will screw up occasionally. They will learn.